Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline

[Hoglund4MvP]

Nashville isn't trading saros. That's a fantasy


Saros isn't getting traded. No team is trading their #1 g

Nashville getting a player like Nylander for Saros is a fantasy because of the goalie market. It's not a knock on Saros

 

[ToneDog]

Nylander is an unattainable fantasy addition for many teams. Put some respect on this name if you're putting him in trade offers.

If I'm trading Nylander I'm going big, like Nylander + 1st + Liljegren for Makar kind of blockbuster trades. If there's even any small sliver of doubt we might not get the best player in the deal, get that trade offer out of my face.

You are sure setting the bar high. Makar is trending to owing the Norris trophy. Willie is a 35 goal man who avoids contact, takes too many nights off and hasn't won anything.

Nashville getting a player like Nylander for Saros is a fantasy because of the goalie market. It's not a knock on Saros

They might trade Saros to make room for Askarov if and when he is ready but Saros is not a goalie I move Nylander for.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Interesting outside the box thought process on moving Mrazek in a more or less painless way.

Technically you could trade Ladd right back to Arizona. That way they can ensure he plays out his last year and they get their 3rd round pick from the Islanders.

6.6 mill (between Mrazek and Ladd over 2 years) for 9.3 mill in cap this year and 3.8 mill in cap next year instead of 4 mill just for 5.5 mill in Ladd for this one year. They are paying 5.2 mill over the entire year instead of 3 mill up front and the last mill over the course of the year. And they get another asset which will almost certainly be tradeable at some point and can be a good partner for Vejmelka in the meantime.

Definitely seems like a smart win-win move for both teams, not much unlike the Ritchie deal.

 

[hamzarocks]

Nylander is an unattainable fantasy addition for many teams. Put some respect on this name if you're putting him in trade offers.

If I'm trading Nylander I'm going big, like Nylander + 1st + Liljegren for Makar kind of blockbuster trades. If there's even any small sliver of doubt we might not get the best player in the deal, get that trade offer out of my face.

That's leaf homerism that's talking

Makar is a tier above Marner as an asset whose a tier or two above Nylander

1st + lilijgren are irrelevant pieces when asking for the 2nd to 5th best player in the NHL

We wouldn't trade Fiala + 1st + Rossi for Matthews, would say it's insulting

Makar offer would be similar

Nylanders value is in the Fiala, ehlers, Reinhart, tier of guys.

He's not bringing back a player two-three tiers better than him no matter how many 1sts we toss in

Nashville getting a player like Nylander for Saros is a fantasy because of the goalie market. It's not a knock on Saros

A player like Nylander is similar to a player like Ehlers/Fiala/Reinhart etc.

None of those guys are going to have further additions to an elite top 5G in the league. Especially one signed at a great deal as well (not like taking on Bob or Price if they were still elite where it's a 10M contract)

 

[TMLAM34]

Nashville definitely isn’t trading Saros.

If Nylander were to be moved, I could see LA making a huge push for him.

 

[Menzinger]

Makar is obviously an untouchable piece regardless.

But proposals that have the team moving Nylander for a couple 2nd/3rd tier assets and a pick don't make the team better either. Nylander is a bluechip/prime asset, it has to be an absolutely home run of a trade for the Leafs to even consider making it not one that makes the team worse

 

[NinjaKick]

Tavares to NJ for the 2nd overall draft pick? ...or am I out to lunch

 

[Gabriel426]

I agree that some here are under valuing Willie. But I don’t even think Avs will trade AM for Makar.
A trade would be getting the best player of the trade instead a few players that are good pieces. Just look at the Kadri trade.
If anything, I doubt Dubas will make any trades with the core bc he sees how the Kadri trade can come back and haunt him. Although, Kadri should have been traded due to back to back suspension in playoffs but one can also argue Dubas should have been more patience with Kadri like he is being patience with the core and Keefe.

Tavares to NJ for the 2nd overall draft pick? ...or am I out to lunch

NJ needs to add

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Makar is obviously an untouchable piece regardless.

But proposals that have the team moving Nylander for a couple 2nd/3rd tier assets and a pick don't make the team better either. Nylander is a bluechip/prime asset, it has to be an absolutely home run of a trade for the Leafs to even consider making it not one that makes the team worse

Agreed, the chances of the leafs 'winning' on a trade for Nylander is pretty low. But I understand the premise of trying to redistribute the cap tied up in the top 6 forwards to other places in the lineup

 

[NinjaKick]

NJ needs to add

IDK about that homie, it opens up $11M of cap space and we get a top prospect that we can sign to a ELC..
keep in mind that the Devils are pretty much in the best position salary cap wise, even so that I think they can offer Soup a crazy deal...

IDK, what do the rest of you guys think?

 

[Gabriel426]

IDK about that homie, it opens up $11M of cap space and we get a top prospect that we can sign to a ELC..
keep in mind that the are Devils pretty much in the best position salary cap wise, even so that I think they can offer Soup a crazy deal...

IDK, what do the rest of you guys think?

Even though I have not been following the draft but I doubt anyone in the Draft would be someone like JT. I think Shane Wright is a good solid player but he doesn’t really have that superstar aura around him at this moment. He reminds me of Bo Horvat.
To me the 2nd overall pick this year is really in name only.

 

[Havoc]

That's leaf homerism that's talking

Makar is a tier above Marner as an asset whose a tier or two above Nylander

1st + lilijgren are irrelevant pieces when asking for the 2nd to 5th best player in the NHL

We wouldn't trade Fiala + 1st + Rossi for Matthews, would say it's insulting

Makar offer would be similar

Nylanders value is in the Fiala, ehlers, Reinhart, tier of guys.

He's not bringing back a player two-three tiers better than him no matter how many 1sts we toss in


A player like Nylander is similar to a player like Ehlers/Fiala/Reinhart etc.

None of those guys are going to have further additions to an elite top 5G in the league. Especially one signed at a great deal as well (not like taking on Bob or Price if they were still elite where it's a 10M contract)

It's Leafs homerism to only want to trade Nylander if we add to him to get the better player back in a deal (or any scenario where we feel confident we are getting the better asset, adding to him is the most realistic one)?

Explain.

If that's homerism then I'm a homer yes because I'm not breaking Nylander down into middle class players or lateral moves where he has high odds of making us regret it terribly. He's about to enter the heart of his prime and has been improving greatly to the point most are confident he will be even better next season.

 

[Gabriel426]

Agreed, the chances of the leafs 'winning' on a trade for Nylander is pretty low. But I understand the premise of trying to redistribute the cap tied up in the top 6 forwards to other places in the lineup

This is what I find interesting.
1. The problem is not Willie and his 7mil but it is the other three 10mil plus players.
2. If JT, MM and AM can actually all lead their own lines and play separately, their combined caphit won’t be a problem.
For example, Goalies will take 7.5mil, DCore will take 23.5mil and forwards be 50 mil. If 4the line is 3.5mil, that’s 46.5mil for the other three lines. If the first line is 20mil, 2nd line 14mil and 3rd line 12.5mil. That’s a pretty balance cap distribution.
However, AM and MM seems to be a must. Willy can lead his own line but it leaves JT to center his line but if he needs to be put in position to get his points or his contact will look like crap.
Also, being AM, Willie and JT, the Leafs lack someone with a good shot. Mik was good at breakaway due to his speed, Kase is solid but he is injured, Kerfoot can’t shoot, Bunting is okay… which leaves MM with nobody to play with.

Assuming the core are in tact for the new season, I really want to see Willie and AM both runs their own lines. Let Engvall-JT-MM be the matchup shutdown line against opposing top lines. Have Kampf on the 4th line with Blackwell and another crash and bang player.
Willie be match with Robertson and Phil(if he comes back, lol) while AM paired with Bunting and someone from trading away Kerfoot.
All their personal stats will most likely take a drop but over all, it is better balance and it would do well in the playoffs.

It's Leafs homerism to only want to trade Nylander if we add to him to get the better player back in a deal (or any scenario where we feel confident we are getting the better asset, adding to him is the most realistic one)?

Explain.

If that's homerism then I'm a homer yes because I'm not breaking Nylander down into middle class players or lateral moves where he has high odds of making us regret it terribly. He's about to enter the heart of his prime and has been improving greatly to the point most are confident he will be even better next season.

It seems like some people never learn.
They kept saying Kadri and Phil were bad trades and laugh at what Oilers got for Hall but at the same time want to trade Willie for spare parts.

 

[Havoc]

You are sure setting the bar high. Makar is trending to owing the Norris trophy. Willie is a 35 goal man who avoids contact, takes too many nights off and hasn't won anything.



They might trade Saros to make room for Askarov if and when he is ready but Saros is not a goalie I move Nylander for.

Has nothing to do with Makar. Has everything to do with Nylander staying if you can't achieve the better asset in the deal. Makar is just the easiest name to use because nobody will counter me that he's better than Nylander.

Edit: nylander + 1st + liljegren for makar was not a serious offer people. I'm just saying get the better asset in a nylander trade otherwise take him out of your trade proposals.

 

[Gabriel426]

When it comes to trade, you always get the best player in the deal.
Look at the Kadri trade, even if Kadri didn’t put up his points this season, he is still the best player in that deal.
Look at the Phil trade. If Leafs didn’t get 1st overall due to the tank and ended up with 2nd or 3rd pick, also getting Andersen and another 2nd rounder when Lou traded those aseests, the deal in itself was not a good deal.
Even the Duchense deal where Avs got Byrum, if Sens actually Managed to be competitive like they planned, they pick might have been around 20s.
Off top of my head the only top talent deals that the sums of parts ended up better than the best player was the Lindros deal between the Nords and Flyers.

 

[TML1967]

Have not seen many people talking about the potential of a Pulji trade.
He is a big W who is good defensively, forechecks like a beast but hasnt exploded offensively so he wont cost much on a 3 or 4 year deal.

Move Kerfoot, Holl, Mrazek
Bring in Pulji, Lazar, ZAR, Comrie

Kerfoot to Ottawa makes sense, but I'd actually prefer Austin Watson + instead of Connor Brown. Watson would be a beast beside Kampf in a hard defensive unit.

Maybe Kerfoot for Watson and Tampa Bay's 2nd round pick.... of Kerfoot and Mrazek for Watson.



Kuraly would be great in our bottom 6.



I think Tavares needs a big-bodied cycler to play with.

Pavel Zacha and Nicolas Roy are both RFAs in Jersey and Vegas respectively. Yakov Trenin is an RFA in Nashville. Nathan Bastian or Max Comtois could be cheaper options on the cap. I doubt Boone Jenner is available, but he'd be a perfect fit there.



It's probably closer to 2.0, but Ian Cole would be an excellent #7. Solid veteran that can play both sides. I'd be worried that Muzzin and/or Giordano can't play a full season, and having Cole step in beside a young Swede would be ideal.



I think Husso gets a bit more, but I like that tandem.

Paul I think has priced himself out of our target with these playoffs. Zach would be interesting, but Comtois is the best of the bunch for what we need.
Bring in Comtois and Puljijarvi + a Lazar type and you are a much harder team to play against.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

This is what I find interesting.
1. The problem is not Willie and his 7mil but it is the other three 10mil plus players.
2. If JT, MM and AM can actually all lead their own lines and play separately, their combined caphit won’t be a problem.
For example, Goalies will take 7.5mil, DCore will take 23.5mil and forwards be 50 mil. If 4the line is 3.5mil, that’s 46.5mil for the other three lines. If the first line is 20mil, 2nd line 14mil and 3rd line 12.5mil. That’s a pretty balance cap distribution.
However, AM and MM seems to be a must. Willy can lead his own line but it leaves JT to center his line but if he needs to be put in position to get his points or his contact will look like crap.
Also, being AM, Willie and JT, the Leafs lack someone with a good shot. Mik was good at breakaway due to his speed, Kase is solid but he is injured, Kerfoot can’t shoot, Bunting is okay… which leaves MM with nobody to play with.

Assuming the core are in tact for the new season, I really want to see Willie and AM both runs their own lines. Let Engvall-JT-MM be the matchup shutdown line against opposing top lines. Have Kampf on the 4th line with Blackwell and another crash and bang player.
Willie be match with Robertson and Phil(if he comes back, lol) while AM paired with Bunting and someone from trading away Kerfoot.
All their personal stats will most likely take a drop but over all, it is better balance and it would do well in the playoffs.


It seems like some people never learn.
They kept saying Kadri and Phil were bad trades and laugh at what Oilers got for Hall but at the same time want to trade Willie for spare parts.

The thing about what you are saying, you can probably do it both ways. You can probably have Matthews/Marner together and Tavares/Nylander together, but then you need to have a 3rd offensive line with players who are actually good enough to play with any of those guys if you want to spread things out (which we did do at times last year).

You just need guys on that "4th line" who can be used to spread things out. Guys like Simmonds, Clifford, and even Blackwell should not be on the radar. It has to be Kase, and maybe some of the rookies with upside like Anderson and Robertson. If you have a Robertson - UFA - Kase bottom 6 line and then have Anderson and Nylander together with Tavares on the 2nd line, you can just swap the wingers (or even just Kase and Nylander) if you want to spread out the offense.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Anderson - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - UFA - Kase
Engvall - Kampf - UFA

OR

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Anderson - Tavares - Kase
Robertson - UFA - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - UFA

 

[Joseph Nathan]

Both started their last season before hitting free agency, maybe not this off-season but can certainly happen at trade deadline for thode player...

Detroit isn't trading Dylan larkin. The other one you mentioned isn't happening either. Look at realistic choices

 

[hamzarocks]

It's Leafs homerism to only want to trade Nylander if we add to him to get the better player back in a deal (or any scenario where we feel confident we are getting the better asset, adding to him is the most realistic one)?

Explain.

If that's homerism then I'm a homer yes because I'm not breaking Nylander down into middle class players or lateral moves where he has high odds of making us regret it terribly. He's about to enter the heart of his prime and has been improving greatly to the point most are confident he will be even better next season.

The player you mentioned is not going to be on the table but even pretending he ever was, there would be dozens of better offers with better center pieces than Nylander

You want to bake your cake and eat it to with getting makar.

Similar if we changed him for Mack, Drai, McDavid, Fox, Kuch etc.,

Would you ever consider Nylander + 1st + lilijgren for Matthews?

A player as good as Makar would bring back the best player on the team for every team besides EDM, maybe Toronto, and possibly Tampa.

Nylander tier guys if they're being packaged for a better player, won't bring back a player whose younger, more dynamic, significantly better than him, on a better contract now and moving forward, etc.

If your targeting a better player than Nylander + or ++ for Matt Tkachuk/Brad Marchand/Jack Eichel type deal could be realistic

However Makar should be valued a bit higher than Matthews due to his contract.

 

[Nylanderthal]

The thing about what you are saying, you can probably do it both ways. You can probably have Matthews/Marner together and Tavares/Nylander together, but then you need to have a 3rd offensive line with players who are actually good enough to play with any of those guys if you want to spread things out (which we did do at times last year).

You just need guys on that "4th line" who can be used to spread things out. Guys like Simmonds, Clifford, and even Blackwell should not be on the radar. It has to be Kase, and maybe some of the rookies with upside like Anderson and Robertson. If you have a Robertson - UFA - Kase bottom 6 line and then have Anderson and Nylander together with Tavares on the 2nd line, you can just swap the wingers (or even just Kase and Nylander) if you want to spread out the offense.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Anderson - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - UFA - Kase
Engvall - Kampf - UFA

OR

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Anderson - Tavares - Kase
Robertson - UFA - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - UFA

Helm & ZAR

 

[Budz]

Whether fans want to say it or not - Willie is not the guy to trade. His contract is great.

I would be cool doing a Marner for Demko starting point trade with Van City…obviously more coming from Van.

 

[Brobust]

That's leaf homerism that's talking

Makar is a tier above Marner as an asset whose a tier or two above Nylander

1st + lilijgren are irrelevant pieces when asking for the 2nd to 5th best player in the NHL

We wouldn't trade Fiala + 1st + Rossi for Matthews, would say it's insulting

Makar offer would be similar

Nylanders value is in the Fiala, ehlers, Reinhart, tier of guys.

He's not bringing back a player two-three tiers better than him no matter how many 1sts we toss in


A player like Nylander is similar to a player like Ehlers/Fiala/Reinhart etc.

None of those guys are going to have further additions to an elite top 5G in the league. Especially one signed at a great deal as well (not like taking on Bob or Price if they were still elite where it's a 10M contract)

The point was that Nylander's not getting traded unless there's an overpay.

I'm seeing some really dumb proposals lately.

 

[Mitch nylander]

When it comes to trade, you always get the best player in the deal.
Look at the Kadri trade, even if Kadri didn’t put up his points this season, he is still the best player in that deal.
Look at the Phil trade. If Leafs didn’t get 1st overall due to the tank and ended up with 2nd or 3rd pick, also getting Andersen and another 2nd rounder when Lou traded those aseests, the deal in itself was not a good deal.
Even the Duchense deal where Avs got Byrum, if Sens actually Managed to be competitive like they planned, they pick might have been around 20s.
Off top of my head the only top talent deals that the sums of parts ended up better than the best player was the Lindros deal between the Nords and Flyers.

I like this logic when looking at weather or not to deal Nylander. Realistically if you move Nylander, you're more likely to lose than win since you're trading an 80 point winger. If he does get traded it would need to be an extreme overpayment.

-----

That being said, I do think this is a flawed logic when it comes to acquiring players. I'd be worried to move multiple pieces for one big fish. There are many times where, this ends up going the opposite way.

Lindros deal is one. Duchene deal is another. Here are a list of other deals that had that same flaw.

2nd overall (Spezza) + Chara for Yashin. - At the time Yashin was the piece,
Jeff Carter for Jakub Voracek, 1st (Couturier), 3rd (Cousins) - 19 games of Carter led to a decade of two top 6 forwards for philly
Scott Gomez for Ryan Mcdonagh, Chris Higgins, ahlers - Gomez was viewed easily as the best piece, but the rangers ended up winning this easily.
etc

Just an example of one we currently perceive as a win-win that can turn-out very poorly. Jake Muzzin deal, yes he's been a great serviceable top 4 dman for us but we haven't been able to make the next step. Now Durzi, Bjornfot, and Grundstrom are all producing for LA. Could having that extra elc depth helped us?

Makes me question pulling a big move for a guy like JT Miller as I could see it hurting us.

 

[Gabriel426]

I like this logic when looking at weather or not to deal Nylander. Realistically if you move Nylander, you're more likely to lose than win since you're trading an 80 point winger. If he does get traded it would need to be an extreme overpayment.

-----

That being said, I do think this is a flawed logic when it comes to acquiring players. I'd be worried to move multiple pieces for one big fish. There are many times where, this ends up going the opposite way.

Lindros deal is one. Duchene deal is another. Here are a list of other deals that had that same flaw.

2nd overall (Spezza) + Chara for Yashin. - At the time Yashin was the piece,
Jeff Carter for Jakub Voracek, 1st (Couturier), 3rd (Cousins) - 19 games of Carter led to a decade of two top 6 forwards for philly
Scott Gomez for Ryan Mcdonagh, Chris Higgins, ahlers - Gomez was viewed easily as the best piece, but the rangers ended up winning this easily.
etc

Just an example of one we currently perceive as a win-win that can turn-out very poorly. Jake Muzzin deal, yes he's been a great serviceable top 4 dman for us but we haven't been able to make the next step. Now Durzi, Bjornfot, and Grundstrom are all producing for LA. Could having that extra elc depth helped us?

Makes me question pulling a big move for a guy like JT Miller as I could see it hurting us.

When it comes to draft picks it depends on 1. Is the draft position already determined when you make the trade or still unknown bc a 1st rounder could be a top 3 pick to the 32nd pick.
Didn’t LA won Cup with Carter while Philly have not even come close?
I think using multiple pieces for someone like Miller will help the Leafs but the determining factor would be playoffs results.
Is Miller the missing piece for the Leafs to win the Cup, I don’t think so but he will definitely improve the team.

Personally, I don’t think Leafs is at a point to go all in with trades unless it is for a goalie like Helly.

 

[Brobust]

I like this logic when looking at weather or not to deal Nylander. Realistically if you move Nylander, you're more likely to lose than win since you're trading an 80 point winger. If he does get traded it would need to be an extreme overpayment.

-----

That being said, I do think this is a flawed logic when it comes to acquiring players. I'd be worried to move multiple pieces for one big fish. There are many times where, this ends up going the opposite way.

Lindros deal is one. Duchene deal is another. Here are a list of other deals that had that same flaw.

2nd overall (Spezza) + Chara for Yashin. - At the time Yashin was the piece,
Jeff Carter for Jakub Voracek, 1st (Couturier), 3rd (Cousins) - 19 games of Carter led to a decade of two top 6 forwards for philly
Scott Gomez for Ryan Mcdonagh, Chris Higgins, ahlers - Gomez was viewed easily as the best piece, but the rangers ended up winning this easily.
etc

Just an example of one we currently perceive as a win-win that can turn-out very poorly. Jake Muzzin deal, yes he's been a great serviceable top 4 dman for us but we haven't been able to make the next step. Now Durzi, Bjornfot, and Grundstrom are all producing for LA. Could having that extra elc depth helped us?

Makes me question pulling a big move for a guy like JT Miller as I could see it hurting us.

Durzi wouldn't make the leafs roster. He's just terrible defensively.