Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline

[thusk]

They played on teams just as bad defensively as Gibson and put up better numbers. Should I pretend that it doesn't mean anything because someone said Gibson was top 5 about half a decade ago?

Really???

Hellebuyck and demko stats against top 20 team in NHL, both was at 0.906% ... Gibson at 0.904%

Gibson played 79 % of his game against top 20, demko and hellebuyck both at 67%... so the fact than a goalie didn't boost his stats against trash team should have a really huge impact on quality of goalie!!!!

And Gibson played in front of both bottom 10 team Defensive AND offensive, but not the case with Vancouver or Winnipeg

 

[BertCorbeau]

Getting Anaheim to retain on Gibson for that many years is going to cost a lot.. like another premium asset.

Better off trying to include Mrazek or someone like that for cap reasons. The premium associated with Mrazek's contract wouldn't be as much.

 

[Future]

Getting Anaheim to retain on Gibson for that many years is going to cost a lot.. like another premium asset.

Better off trying to include Mrazek or someone like that for cap reasons. The premium associated with Mrazek's contract wouldn't be as much.

We wouldn’t be the only players involved in a Gibson trade so I doubt they’d need to retain either way.

I’ve been a massive fan of his going back to his Kitchener Ranger days. If we pull this off I’m going to be partying all off-season.

Also just to note he has the perfect mentality for this market. Same guy every day. Completely poised and doesn’t get too high or low which is my concern with Soup.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Getting Anaheim to retain on Gibson for that many years is going to cost a lot.. like another premium asset.

Better off trying to include Mrazek or someone like that for cap reasons. The premium associated with Mrazek's contract wouldn't be as much.

I feel like we are comparing something like Phaneuf vs. Kessel.

Kessel was retained for that long. Phaneuf was not. If you look at Phaneuf, though, he didn't return any premium assets. He only got a B prospect and a 2nd, and we had to take on Michalek, Cowen, and Greening; all of whom were more useless than Mrazek would be to any team that gets him, and of course a lot more expensive.

Obviously Phaneuf had a higher cap hit in a time when the cap was lower, but he was also better than Gibson has been the past 3 years too.

We wouldn’t be the only players involved in a Gibson trade so I doubt they’d need to retain either way.

I’ve been a massive fan of his going back to his Kitchener Ranger days. If we pull this off I’m going to be partying all off-season.

Not many teams can afford to take on that cap hit though, and even fewer probably want to take that risk.

I think they are facing the same sort of conundrum as we did with a guy like Phaneuf. Still has some upside and utility, but that contract is a huge anchor relative to what he has brought... And that is going to mean big dollars coming back either in terms of taking on contracts or retention, and that is to even get the wheels moving. Nobody is touching that contract with zero money going back.

 

[Antropovsky]

"I don't hate Marner, I just invade every topic discussing the team to complain about him and suggest he be moved!"

I'm invading topics.... on a public message board? Care to share the policies I'm breaking officer?

Bidding war for Gibson probably comes down to the Oilers/Leafs.

Oilers were close to getting Kuemper last off-season and the cost for him was very high even as a rental.

I could see them overpaying for him.

Gibson helps them significantly but they have Kane to worry about first. They can't even afford him at this point, not sure how they afford both. One hole filled, one hole opened.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I think in any Gibson deal comtois has to be a part of it. He can play 2 Lw for 2 million, somthing our team desperately needs.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I feel like we are comparing something like Phaneuf vs. Kessel.

Kessel was retained for that long. Phaneuf was not. If you look at Phaneuf, though, he didn't return any premium assets. He only got a B prospect and a 2nd, and we had to take on Michalek, Cowen, and Greening; all of whom were more useless than Mrazek would be to any team that gets him, and of course a lot more expensive.

Obviously Phaneuf had a higher cap hit in a time when the cap was lower, but he was also better than Gibson has been the past 3 years too.



Not many teams can afford to take on that cap hit though, and even fewer probably want to take that risk.

I think they are facing the same sort of conundrum as we did with a guy like Phaneuf. Still has some upside and utility, but that contract is a huge anchor relative to what he has brought... And that is going to mean big dollars coming back either in terms of taking on contracts or retention, and that is to even get the wheels moving. Nobody is touching that contract with zero money going back.

The Phaneuf comparison is an interesting one. Lots of sense associated with it.

The goalie market is a weird one because goalies are so fickle. If they're not elite their price isn't substantial. I guess it depends on how the Ducks view his value, particularly given his remarks about losing and that he's said he's open for a trade.

Does Anaheim really want to have that in the room from your goalie going into next year? Someone who is already partially checked out knowing their rebuilding?

You have to think they're motivated to move him because if he has another subpar year his value really tanks.

 

[Lightsol]

I'm invading topics.... on a public message board? Care to share the policies I'm breaking officer?

How about trying to turn every single topic you post in, regardless of the original discussion or point of the topic, into "Why Mitch Marner is the major issue with the Toronto Maple Leafs and needs to be moved now"?

 

[hamzarocks]

I'm invading topics.... on a public message board? Care to share the policies I'm breaking officer?


Gibson helps them significantly but they have Kane to worry about first. They can't even afford him at this point, not sure how they afford both. One hole filled, one hole opened.

Kane used the Oilers to build up his value

He's not going to be there next year. He's cashing in. If he's smart he'll play out his deal and earn a nice retirement life free of debt.

He should go to team like SEA and collect a nice check, put up pts in a high role, and just enjoy life.

 

[OVO16]

Kane is most likely going to either Anaheim or Philly.

 

[New Liskeard]

You are okay with trading a PPG or close winger at a good contract for a guy who is 22 and close to bust territory and a top 5 recent pick who has failed to meet expectations? If we proposed that to another fan base in reverse, we would be laughed at. Rangers better be adding Schnieder and 1st on top of that

And using that cap space to sign Forsberg for example? In a NY minute; not sure how anyone in their right mind would not. Schneider Laff and Forsberg over Nylander.....

 

[BertCorbeau]

Kane signing in Vegas (with them somehow making the cap work) is the NHL off-season headline we need.

 

[3blizzard4]

Kane signing in Vegas (with them somehow making the cap work) is the NHL off-season headline we need.

If that were happen it would be hell on earth over at HFOil.

 

[Gabriel426]

John Gibson is basically the OEL version of goalies.

Looking back the OEL trade, Arizona took on $12M in cap, retained on OEL, sent a top 6 forward back for the 9th pick in the draft.

Toronto will send $3.8M in cap and likely doesn't ask for any of Anaheim's top 6 forwards.

So, 25th OA + 2nd + Holmberg should be where they draw the line. There's no way they can include their 2nd best F prospect and best D prospect in this deal.

If Gibson is the OEL of goalies in terms of playing, bc OEL is a shell of the way he used to play, his PP and offence is good but his defence is horrible. If that’s the case, don’t think we should even trade for Gibson.

Honestly, I have not seen Gibson much and that’s pretty much why I am more keen on Helly than Gibson.

 

[123offtheglass]

1st (2023) + 2nd (2024) + Mrazek + Steeves/SDA is the absolute most I'd offer for Gibson + ZAR thrown in (signing rights)

Anything more than that I think is an overpay. Ideally the prospect wouldn't be as good or we'd get one of their 4th round picks this year.

 

[thusk]

I feel like we are comparing something like Phaneuf vs. Kessel.

Kessel was retained for that long. Phaneuf was not. If you look at Phaneuf, though, he didn't return any premium assets. He only got a B prospect and a 2nd, and we had to take on Michalek, Cowen, and Greening; all of whom were more useless than Mrazek would be to any team that gets him, and of course a lot more expensive.

Obviously Phaneuf had a higher cap hit in a time when the cap was lower, but he was also better than Gibson has been the past 3 years too.



Not many teams can afford to take on that cap hit though, and even fewer probably want to take that risk.

I think they are facing the same sort of conundrum as we did with a guy like Phaneuf. Still has some upside and utility, but that contract is a huge anchor relative to what he has brought... And that is going to mean big dollars coming back either in terms of taking on contracts or retention, and that is to even get the wheels moving. Nobody is touching that contract with zero money going back.

Phaneuf was trash when he was traded. He was considerated like the most overrated player and the most overpaid player by everybody in NHL except leafs fan, Gibson last vote of AJNHL he was top 5 amount goalie...

Gibson didn't have huge stats because he didn't have free game to boost his stats.

% of game played against 20 best NHl team

Gibson 79
Kuemper 74
Vasilevskiy 68
Demko 67
Hellebuyck 67
Andersen 67
Husso 66
Campbell 66
Shesterkins 65
Saros 60
Markstrom 59
Sorokin 50

I think people just how hard work load of Gibson was...

Campbell was playing in front of one of best team in NHL was unable to get his confidenfe back playing 2 of 5 game against worst team and 3of 5 against team of same level, imagine get a confidence back when you playing 4 of 5 game against better team than yours and 1 of 5 game against team of same level... no goalie had a level of difficulty as high than Gibson...

 

[SprDaVE]

Phaneuf was trash when he was traded. He was considerated like the most overrated player and the most overpaid player by everybody in NHL except leafs fan, Gibson last vote of AJNHL he was top 5 amount goalie...

Gibson didn't have huge stats because he didn't have free game to boost his stats.

% of game played against 20 best NHl team

Gibson 79
Kuemper 74
Vasilevskiy 68
Demko 67
Hellebuyck 67
Andersen 67
Husso 66
Campbell 66
Shesterkins 65
Saros 60
Markstrom 59
Sorokin 50

I think people just how hard work load of Gibson was...

Campbell was playing in front of one of best team in NHL was unable to get his confidenfe back playing 2 of 5 game against worst team and 3of 5 against team of same level, imagine get a confidence back when you playing 4 of 5 game against better team than yours and 1 of 5 game against team of same level... no goalie had a level of difficulty as high than Gibson...

The big reason I'm interested personally is because I think he can bounce back and he can handle a big work load, but let's not pretend that playing a lot on bad teams is an indicator of being elite.

If the Leafs were trying to trade away a 6.5M goaltender with a .904% over the last 3 years, a player survey wouldn't mean anything either.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Fun fact: only 2 cup winning teams have not drafted/developed their starting goaltender in the cap era:

- Boston (Tim Thomas) in 2011
- Anaheim (JS Giguere) in 2008

 

[fahad203]

Fun fact: only 2 cup winning teams have not drafted/developed their starting goaltender in the cap era:

- Boston (Tim Thomas) in 2011
- Anaheim (JS Giguere) in 2008

So what you are saying is we should bring back Reimer?

 

[BertCorbeau]

So what you are saying is we should bring back Reimer?

hey you never know.

I think it just speaks to the underlying importance of investing in goaltender development. Something this org has lacked forever. Too focused on the skater side.

I’m just not sure that a 1A/1B bargain tandem is the right call. Your banking on one being hot at the right time. Sure there’s no long term contract handcuffs but the instability can be a problem.

Also free agency is slim pickings for this year and next. Hard to say what the right call is.

I’m leaning towards the “trade for Gibson if the price is right” camp.

 

[thusk]

The big reason I'm interested personally is because I think he can bounce back and he can handle a big work load, but let's not pretend that playing a lot on bad teams is an indicator of being elite.

If the Leafs were trying to trade away a 6.5M goaltender with a .904% over the last 3 years, not sure the games played makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.

Im not telling played a lot on bad team is an indicator of being elite but you will not get the same stats playing against tampa, colorado, florida, colorado than arizona, montreal, ottawa, buffalo.

 

[Brobust]

Really???

Hellebuyck and demko stats against top 20 team in NHL, both was at 0.906% ... Gibson at 0.904%

Gibson played 79 % of his game against top 20, demko and hellebuyck both at 67%... so the fact than a goalie didn't boost his stats against trash team should have a really huge impact on quality of goalie!!!!

And Gibson played in front of both bottom 10 team Defensive AND offensive, but not the case with Vancouver or Winnipeg

You asking me to ignore the games where he sucked?

 

[SprDaVE]

Im not telling played a lot on bad team is an indicator of being elite but you will not get the same stats playing against tampa, colorado, florida, colorado than arizona, montreal, ottawa, buffalo.

Kuemper played 4 years in Arizona and had a 0.912% save percentage and a 2.58 goals against average in that span. He played 55 games in 2018-2019 where he had a .925% save percentage and the top scorer for Arizona that year had 47 points. Their 2nd best scorer was Galchenyuk with 41 points.

You can still play well on a bad team. It's a bad excuse. That's the risk you take. You can't just assume he'll bounce back on a better team, at least not back to his elite levels. The value should represent his level of play.

 

[ToneDog]

CJ says Leafs not interested in Gibson to date. Thinks Mik could get $4m (see yah) but no talks with him or Soup yet. Says they will talk to Mik soon. Sounds like Soup will walk.

 

[BertCorbeau]

CJ says Leafs not interested in Gibson to date. Thinks Mik could get $4m (see yah) but no talks with him or Soup yet. Says they will talk to Mik soon. Sounds like Soup will walk.

Booooo but it makes sense

I won’t be upset if they don’t get Gibson because it could be indicative of the cost and I won’t be upset about not having that contract on the books. Goalies are voodoo.