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Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline

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Gabriel426 said:
It’s funny how on one thread people are screaming at Dubas for making the Kadri trade and in other threads, let’s trade Willie for a bunch of okay players bc he is soft and needs cap space.

The lesson from the Kadri trade is make sure the Leafs is getting the best player in return instead of a few good pieces.
Look at the Kadri trade, the Phil trade….
I think the only trade where the team got a great haul while losing the best player at the time is the Lindros trade but that also had a lot to do with Forsberg developing into a much better player than anyone thought.
Click to expand...
I think this is flawed logic comparing a Kadri trade to a Nylander trade. The Kadri trade made the Leafs softer to play against AND less skilled. Dubas seems to appreciate the value of players that are hard to play against now. Based off everything Dubas has said over the last year you'd think that if he trades Nylander it may be a downgrade on skill but in exchange for being a harder team to play against.

Kadri also had 3 years remaining at 4.5M and was a 2 time 30 goal C. Nylander is in a less premium position and he's paid 6.9M while also only having 2 30 goal seasons.

Contracts aside, if you could trade Nylander right now for the exact player Kadri was when he was traded: a 2C with 2 30 goal season under his belt who is hard to play against but less skilled than Nylander - would you do it?
 
Americanadian said:
I think this is flawed logic comparing a Kadri trade to a Nylander trade. The Kadri trade made the Leafs softer to play against AND less skilled. Dubas seems to appreciate the value of players that are hard to play against now. Based off everything Dubas has said over the last year you'd think that if he trades Nylander it may be a downgrade on skill but in exchange for being a harder team to play against.

Kadri also had 3 years remaining at 4.5M and was a 2 time 30 goal C. Nylander is in a less premium position and he's paid 6.9M while also only having 2 30 goal seasons.

Contracts aside, if you could trade Nylander right now for the exact player Kadri was when he was traded: a 2C with 2 30 goal season under his belt who is hard to play against but less skilled than Nylander - would you do it?
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Absolutely, the ability to slide Tavares to LW alongside a legit 2C would be ideal. However I do think Tavares and Nylander could work together just slotted differently with Nylander @ 2C and Tavares @ 2LW

Bunting Matthews Marner
Tavares Nylander Kase type
 
LeafChief said:
'Sandin and Liljegren have derailed'. LMAO.

If you want to see what derailment looks like, look at what happened to Philly and their young D prospects from a few years ago (Morin/Myers/etc).
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Lmao totally agree.

"DERAILED"!?!?!? Holy hell, this place is garbage.

My whatsapp Leafs chat was talking just the other day how much of a step both Lili and Sandin took and how much both guys progressed this past season.

Like... they were bordering on top 4 dmen just this past season. They were 21 and 22 for the majority of this past year!

We talk ad nauseum about having patience with young guys and we have 2 guys just past 20 yrs old show immense improvement in the hardest position and pace for like ~30 pts each and people complain they've been "derailed."

Holy hell
 
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TML4EVR said:
Absolutely, the ability to slide Tavares to LW alongside a legit 2C would be ideal. However I do think Tavares and Nylander could work together just slotted differently with Nylander @ 2C and Tavares @ 2LW

Bunting Matthews Marner
Tavares Nylander Kase type
Click to expand...
If Keefe trusted Nylander at C this would be good. They could even run Matthews-Nylander-Tavares-Kampf down the middle and put 2 marlies on a sheltered 3rd line with Tavares. Something like:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Engvall-Nylander-X
Robertson-Tavares-Steeves
X-Kampf-Anderson

If they move off all of Mrazek/Muzzin/Kerfoot/Holl they can fill that top 6 slot with Rakell/Marchment/Niederreiter/Smith.
 
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stickty111 said:
If Liljegren who made his way into a top 4 role in the 2nd half, and Sandin who showed improvements this year is derailed than we are in good shape.
Click to expand...
I'm not against trading Sandin if it means getting a good young 2C/3C someone like Vilardi, ideally Muzzin is the guy to go.
 
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Gabriel426 said:
Fox might not skate like Reilly but he can skate and he doesn’t get push around in front of the net.
Stop with all these Sandin will be Fox comparison, it is quite embarrassing. If Sandin is playing in any other teams and their fans use Fox as a comparison, you guys will be laughing non stop. It is the same with Jets fans used to say how Laine will be like Mario or Ovie and Leafs should have consider him over AM…..esp after the WJC or WC.
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Actually if Sandin were on another team, the Fox comparisons would be rampant. Remember, HFBoards is the place where they said Victor Mete/WIll Butcher were better than Morgan Rielly after 10 games.

It's only on here where we police ourselves into being pretty pessimistic about young players.
 
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Americanadian said:
If Keefe trusted Nylander at C this would be good. They could even run Matthews-Nylander-Tavares-Kampf down the middle and put 2 marlies on a sheltered 3rd line with Tavares. Something like:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Engvall-Nylander-X
Robertson-Tavares-Steeves
X-Kampf-Anderson

If they move off all of Mrazek/Muzzin/Kerfoot/Holl they can fill that top 6 slot with Rakell/Marchment/Niederreiter/Smith.
Click to expand...
I’m not playing nylander at center in the playoffs but that’s just me. I’m sure the stats will say it’s a great idea though.

Nylander is fine where he’s been. We need a goalie
 
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Muzzin is a solid defenceman but the injury scares have been concerning. He had a strong playoffs. Now is the time to trade him (while he has solid value) and propel Sandin into the 2LD spot (you have Giordano as a back-up plan there if it doesn't work).

You can use part of that saved 5.6 AAV to look for a similar player on the right side (i.e. Manson). Trade Holl/Kerfoot for even more capspace.

Rielly - Manson
Sandin - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren

It doesn't have to be Manson. He's a placeholder/solid option but I'm sure there are others that fit the bill.

Muzzin likely brings back a high pick + high prospect. Maybe even a roster player. If Muzzin were on a different team, a lot of people around here would be talking about the high cost to acquire him. We wouldn't be trading Muzzin because he is bad. We would be trading Muzzin to balance the D and provide support for our young defenceman (like they should have done 5-6 years ago for Rielly).
 
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Menzinger said:
Re Mrazek A thought had crossed my mind.

i wonder if a a budget team has an uninsured LTIR case and could use a goalie. Have zero idea if anyone fits that category though.
Click to expand...

I don’t think Chicago is a budget case.

But they have Connolly in the minors.
We could in theory trade mrazek for Connolly and buy him out?

Chicago needs a goalie.

Or I wonder if we overpay for Murphy? And dump mrazek
 
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Dreakmur said:
Neither guy can get into the playoff lineup that includes Justin Holl…
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Sandin was just coming off a significant knee injury and had no runway left to play himself back into shape. Liljegren played in the playoffs.

Justin Holl is an NHL defenceman. I personally would like to see him moved but your notion that he isn't an NHL-level defenceman lacks credibility.
 
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LeafChief said:
Sandin was just coming off a significant knee injury and had no runway left to play himself back into shape. Liljegren played in the playoffs.

Justin Holl is an NHL defenceman. I personally would like to see him moved but your notion that he isn't an NHL-level defenceman lacks credibility.
Click to expand...

Sandin was never given a chance to come back in. Liljegren was quickly removed and scratched… for Justin Holl…

It was clear Keefe and Dubas were desperate to win and didn’t trust how the young guts had developed thus far.
 
Erndog said:
Lmao totally agree.

"DERAILED"!?!?!? Holy hell, this place is garbage.

My whatsapp Leafs chat was talking just the other day how much of a step both Lili and Sandin took and how much both guys progressed this past season.

Like... they were bordering on top 4 dmen just this past season. They were 21 and 22 for the majority of this past year!

We talk ad nauseum about having patience with young guys and we have 2 guys just past 20 yrs old show immense improvement in the hardest position and pace for like ~30 pts each and people complain they've been "derailed."

Holy hell
Click to expand...

Patience includes playing them when it matters. Keefe and Dubas are the ones who lacked patience by pushing them both out of the lineup at critical times.
 
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Visnovsky said:
With Anaheim looking for a veteran D to alleviate the youngsters' load, would a base of Muzzin for Gibson work?
Click to expand...

I don’t think so. Plus then muzz is giving up on playoffs.

I think muzz to la for a grunny or a pick

And prospect/1 /mrazek for Gibson would be it.
 
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Dreakmur said:
Sandin was never given a chance to come back in. Liljegren was quickly removed and scratched… for Justin Holl…

It was clear Keefe and Dubas were desperate to win and didn’t trust how the young guts had developed thus far.
Click to expand...
Sandin wasn't healthy enough to play until the first round was well underway. Which of Rielly, Muzzin or Giordano were you taking out for him after he hadn't played for a month?

Justin Holl is an NHL defenceman. They should probably trade him this off-season (positive value) to have Liljegren take his spot as he is more than ready and makes a very strong pair with Giordano.

In this thread you argued that Ethan Bear (97 born) wouldn't be a good pickup because there is no room to develop him but you are willing to give up on Liljegren (99 born) and Sandin (00 born) because they have no more room to develop?

Questioning this team is 100% fair but your negativity is exhausting. If you hate this organization this much feel free to choose one of the other 31 subs.
 
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TML4EVR said:
Where exactly is Sandin a top 4 defenceman? His skating needs much work, his defending is week he's a #6 right now with work to be done. He may never reach top 4, hoping he does but not a certainty
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Probably the very same place where Vilardi is a #2C/3C I would imagine.
 
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TML4EVR said:
Where exactly is Sandin a top 4 defenceman? His skating needs much work, his defending is week he's a #6 right now with work to be done. He may never reach top 4, hoping he does but not a certainty
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He was actually elite on both sides of the puck when he was on the 3rd pair this year. He also did well in an elevated role with any partner when we had injuries. Not quite as dominating but better results than Dermott ever got.

Sandin-Liljegren dominated their matchups to the extent that Grzelcyk-McAvoy domintated their 1st pair matchups this year. Time to elevate their role and find out.

Not sure where all this weak defensively and slow skating stuff comes from when we never really got scored on when he was on the ice and our offense was better with him as well. Just because he isn't 6'4" or skate like Makar doesn't mean he wasn't good.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
He was actually elite on both sides of the puck when he was on the 3rd pair this year. He also did well in an elevated role with any partner when we had injuries. Not quite as dominating but better results than Dermott ever got.

Sandin-Liljegren dominated their matchups to the extent that Grzelcyk-McAvoy domintated their 1st pair matchups this year. Time to elevate their role and find out.

Not sure where all this weak defensively and slow skating stuff comes from when we never really got scored on when he was on the ice and our offense was better with him as well. Just because he isn't 6'4" or skate like Makar doesn't mean he wasn't good.
Click to expand...
He was great in a bottom pairing role, I like Sandin and want him to grow, I would just prefer a young center that can eventually take over that #2C from Tavares, it's our weakest position, with Reilly Liljegren Brodie locked up and with Kral and Neimela on the horizon I think Sandin becomes our best trade asset
 
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