Brobust
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- Sep 29, 2017
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Sure, but I'd want Cirelli or Joel Ericsson Ek and neither team will make that deal.
Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline
- Thread starter BertCorbeau
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Sure, but I'd want Cirelli or Joel Ericsson Ek and neither team will make that deal.
Dreakmur
Registered User
Liljegren is much better than Justin Holl. It's not even close really.
I didn't say I would give up on them. I said there are only so many spots on a contending team for players still need to learn how to play. One is fine. Two is dangerous. Three is insane.
Last year, Liljegren should have played 82 regular season games and 7 play-off games. Instead if gets jerked around and his development is slowed.
I'm pretty much right in the middle of negativity and positivity - the fact that I disagree with the fringes of each side demonstrates that.
Some decisions are just so baffling, you can't help but be negative.
Brobust
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Like who? Who is trading a young C that has top 6 potential?
Please don't say Vilardi.
LeafChief
Matthew Knies Enthusiast
It's always the ones that claim to be 'unbiased' that seem to have the most trouble using logic.
Vilardi has as much a chance at being a 2C as Sandin tops a 4D
That's a trade I do in a heartbeat
But the problem is that you pointed out a guy like Vilardi who doesn't play center and put up just 7 points in 25 games last year.
You need to aim a lot higher than that and you can get that guy by trading a vet like Muzzin AND keeping Sandin.
Dreakmur
Registered User
I didn't claim to be unbiased. I claimed that I'm sometimes negative and sometimes positive, and it depends on how I view the point of discussion. I certainly have my biases, just like you do. What I don't have in an agenda.
You think it's illogical to not want 3 developing defenseman on the roster at the same time while we're supposed to be contending right now?
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thusk
Registered User
LeafChief
Matthew Knies Enthusiast
I want nothing to do with Bear. I just thought it was comical that to you, he needs development time but Sandin and Liljegren (who are 2 and 3 years yonunger) have had their development stunted/derailed (again -according to you). In reality, both Sandin and Liljegren are very good and should be solid next season.
Both Sandin/Liljegren showed that they are both very good defenceman this year and should be given a lot more rope next season. I would move both of Muzzin and Holl to assure that they both play as many games as possible next season.
Nylanderthal
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I didn’t compare the players as far as quality, I simply answered the question. Fox is smaller and as slow as Sandin. His absolutely elite IQ allows him to slow the game down.
Keep in mind that fox is a full two years older than Rasmus and benefitted from an unobstructed development path not messed with over Covid.
I don’t think Sandin is even close to fox, I was simply answering the question as to what nhl d skate as slowly/poorly as Sandin, and the answer is the best D man in the league
ULF_55
Moderator
Is this team good enough to make the playoffs without going to free agency (beyond goaltending)?
Say, they re-sign their RFA's and let their UFA's walk.
They have 3 players in the minors who are 23 and older:
Holmberg
Anderson
McMann
along with Robertson.
Can they make the playoffs and accumulate some cap space for TDD?
Some are arguing the team is really close, and played the 1st. round with players who were not 100% healthy.
They played a fair chunk of the season with poor goaltending.
If you feel they were close, and just lost to the two time Stanley Cup winners, would a healthier line-up made the difference?
Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander was effective 2020-2021 playoffs. Nylander does not need be with Tavares.
Bunting-Matthews-marner
Robertson-Tavares-Kase
Abruzzese-Kerfoot-Nylander
Engvall-Kampf-Holmberg
Clifford
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Giordano-Liljegren
Sandin
The missing: Mikheyev, Blackwell, Spezza.
So Robertson and Holmberg are the new faces.
If you think they were close, and just a fair refereed series and healthier Muzzin, Matthews, Sandin, Bunting and Kase would have made a huge difference, how much do they really need to shop?
If they have to make major changes, were they really close? Were they for real?
thusk
Registered User
Get a goalie who can stole you just 1 game or just being amaizing during an important period like 3rd period against tampa game #6 or being amaizing on overtime. I dont rhink they need more than this
Campbell was not bad, he was not good too... he was just fine
Andersen was not bad, he was not good too... he was just fine
You are mistaking “need” for hypothetical want.
The leafs could easily run back the same skaters and be a 110 point team.
Goaltending was an issue.
Define…. For real? Are the rangers “for real”.
If domingue didn’t throw the puck in the net. The rangers lose…….. would you have thought they were for real? Because they could easily win the cup now.
They played third string coming and concussed crosby. Third goalie and now Tampa without point.
They win that and it’s peg leg drai and smith. Or. The avs without kadri girard and a one eyed kuemper.
Bottom line is. All you need is a team good enough to be in the mix. Health and bounces. Lots of teams make crazy runs.
The leafs could easily walk back the same team. And get some bounces and boom.
We hope they don’t. But ther coudl.
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SHANNYPLAN
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2016
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Leafs - Predators
William Nylander
for
Colton Sissons & Tanner Jeannot
Leafs - Coyotes
Alex Kerfoot & Nick Robertson
for
Lawson Crouse
Leafs - Islanders
Jake Muzzin
for
Ross Johnston & 2nd
Leafs - Ducks
Justin Holl, Petr Mrazek, Prospect & 1st
for
John Gibson
SIGN
Pierre Engvall - 2 x 1.75
Ilya Lyubushkin - 2 x 1.75
Rasmus Sandin - 2 x 1.60
Timothy Liljigren - 3 x 1.60
Lawson Crouse - 3 x 3.75
Colin Blackwell - 2 x 1.00
Vincent Trocheck - 4 x 5.00
2022-23 Leafs
CROUSE - MATTHEWS - MARNER
BUNTING - TAVARES - TROCHECK
JEANNOTT - KAMPF - SISSONS
ENGVALL - DOUGLAS - BLACKWELL
JOHNSTON
RIELLY - - BOOSH
SANDIN - BRODIE
GIORDANO - LILJIGREN
GIBSON
KALLGREN
William Nylander
for
Colton Sissons & Tanner Jeannot
Leafs - Coyotes
Alex Kerfoot & Nick Robertson
for
Lawson Crouse
Leafs - Islanders
Jake Muzzin
for
Ross Johnston & 2nd
Leafs - Ducks
Justin Holl, Petr Mrazek, Prospect & 1st
for
John Gibson
SIGN
Pierre Engvall - 2 x 1.75
Ilya Lyubushkin - 2 x 1.75
Rasmus Sandin - 2 x 1.60
Timothy Liljigren - 3 x 1.60
Lawson Crouse - 3 x 3.75
Colin Blackwell - 2 x 1.00
Vincent Trocheck - 4 x 5.00
2022-23 Leafs
CROUSE - MATTHEWS - MARNER
BUNTING - TAVARES - TROCHECK
JEANNOTT - KAMPF - SISSONS
ENGVALL - DOUGLAS - BLACKWELL
JOHNSTON
RIELLY - - BOOSH
SANDIN - BRODIE
GIORDANO - LILJIGREN
GIBSON
KALLGREN
ULF_55
Moderator
Thanks for the reply.
Edit/Addition: If they were a 115 point team with poor goaltender for a couple of months, would they have been better with even average goaltending those months? So the same team with better goaltending would have more than 110 points?
Yep, Crosby was playing really well and probably wasn't 100% when he came back. Losing a world top 5 player was the difference in my opinion.
Leafs need a goaltender, a healthy Mrazek might be half the requirement,
Wonder how many would have wanted Markstrom in the Leafs net to start the playoffs?
I could run back the same team, replacing the UFA's but wouldn't scoff at a new coach.
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Nylanderthal
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2010
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Without any of the baggage? Maybe? With Nazem’s baggage? Not a chance.
You’re also downplaying the value of the pieces we got back. Kerfoot was a 24 year old b2b 40+ Point middle 6 C who was miscast for the better part of two seasons here, and Tyson Barrie who’s a top end PMD and came with 50% retention. He seems to be doing just fine in Edmonton. Heck they have Ceci & Barrie and are in the CF
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I don't know if it's useful to compare Sandin to Fox based on generalities like small, slow-ish and high IQ because we can't measure the qualities of each of those attributes other than to say Fox has produced Norris caliber play and Sandin is still trying to establish himself.
The other thing that I keep beating the drum on is that the Rangers have a group of defensemen like Trouba, Miller and Schneider at various levels of development on their blueline. Having these kinds of 6'3"+ type players who can play an impact role allows for the more unique, skilled and small defensemen to thrive.
Whereas on the Leafs we have an entire pipeline of 6'0" and minus skilled defensemen who won't be able to protect each other or thrive in a heavy playoff game.
Dreakmur
Registered User
Liljegren made significant strides. That's why he was clearly better than Holl by the end of the year. Sandin hasn't really progressed since coming in. Yes injuries have played a part, but so has poor decisions around his development.
It takes more than 50-60 games to clean up a defenseman's game. Not only do they need playing time, responsibility, and trust, but they need mentorship. Bringing back Giordano was a good step. He can help Liljegren along. There's nobody to help Sandin, and there isn't really a spot for him in the lineup. The structure of the blueline makes it tough to integrate two young defensemen who both need to be a bit sheltered.
The Rielly unit isn't going to handle the toughest defensive match-ups. The Giordano-Liljegren shouldn't be doing that either. That leaves the other pair doing that job, and Sandin certainly isn't ready for that.
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
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Flawed logic is wanting a guy back who had a career year and is on the wrong side of 30 (actually will be 32 by puck drop next season), has had only one season with over 55 points on his resume prior to this contract year, and has been suspended for the playoffs on 3 separate occasions in addition to being suspended by his own team for what was called ongoing transgressions.
Kadri isn't what the Leafs need in any way, shape or form. A younger pre-breakout Kadri without the U-Haul full of extra baggage? Sure, absolutely.
Kadri isn't what the Leafs need in any way, shape or form. A younger pre-breakout Kadri without the U-Haul full of extra baggage? Sure, absolutely.
Zacha is another player I would target for the 3rd line role
Along with Deslaueirs for 4th line
I'll take Subban on depth contract for a right handed 5th D
Along with Deslaueirs for 4th line
I'll take Subban on depth contract for a right handed 5th D
ULF_55
Moderator
32 or young, > 20 games played.
How many are going to cash in?
Any a fit to share the net with a healthy Mrazek?
Not a pretty list.
How many are going to cash in?
Any a fit to share the net with a healthy Mrazek?
Not a pretty list.
Nylanderthal
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2010
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Zacha is another Ritchie with less snarl. Great tools no toolbox.
This is so understated by the navel gazers here, it wasn’t a couple of 1 gamers like the Clifford hit, they were all series/season ending Dale Hunter quality. His boneheaded play cost his team in 4 straight playoff runs, yet the leafs a team who craves and is dying for post season success is somehow worse off without him?
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