GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART IV

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Kane is about to be a UFA you don't need 3.5 to sign Kane, I don't think he gets over 1.5 and it wouldn't surprise me if he got 1 million or less.

If they want Kane fire Ritchie or Engvall into the sun, if they don't want Kane I totally get it but if they do it's not costing you Kerfoot.

Kerfoot is a piece I could see going in the off season but not now.

Talent wise Kane is tempting, I've been saying for a long time they need 1 more top 6 forward and Kane is absolutely a top 6 forward.

If you add Kane then you got

Kane Matthews Marner

Kerfoot Tavares Nylander

Bunting Kampf and Kase

For those asking why Bunting moves down and not Kerfoot.

Playoff lines have nicknames and.... No that one wouldn't be good.

But that top 9 certainly would.

 

[The Podium]

Really? Did you not see that collapse against Colorado? That happens to the Leafs far to often when the going gets tough.

Theyre 17-0-1 when leading after 2, clearly blown leads have become a troubling trend with this team…

 

[Avilaj07]

Sign Kane for 1 million for remainder of season.

Trade Sandin, Holl, Ritchie, Robertson, 1st Round Pick for Chychrun and Lyubushkin

Kane- Matthews- Marner
Kerfoot- Tavares- Nylander
Bunting- Kampf- Kase
Mikheyev- Spezza- Engvall
Simmonds

Rielly- Brodie
Chychrun-Liljegren
Muzzin- Dermott
Lyubushkin

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Engvall might clear waivers and would probably be my choice as well if someone had to be sent down.

However, replacing him with a wildcard like Kane is a high-risk, high-reward gambit that might work, but could leave the roster in worse shape after all is said and done.

If another player – such as Engvall – were lost on waivers and if Kane didn't work out, then the Leafs would have lost a roster player, which is not at all helpful.

There would be less risk if the Leafs weren't so close to the salary-cap and could carry a full 23-man roster. This is one of the consequences of leaving little flexibility on the roster.

If I were the decision-maker, I'm not at all sure that I would be willing to risk much on signing Evander Kane.

Well Ritchie has cleared Waivers so they could bury about half his salary in the AHL

 

[Ciao]

I don't think Engvall is strong enough of a player to base the decision off of. The decision should be made based off of whether or not they think Kane can help the team.

Anderson, Steeves and even Ho-Sang could be used if everything went to shit and we somehow lost Engvall. The drop-off wouldn't really even be noticeable.

I agree, on paper, but I agree with @ACC1224 that you have to look at the dressing-room dynamic as well.

I think winning has more to do with team-building than it does with collecting movable pieces.

In the early stages of the season. I thought the Leafs looked lost because they had no sense of identity and no idea of who would do what. After a game in Chicago, it seemed like they started to put it together and play together as a team.

Like him or not, Engvall has a role and is part of that. When the Leafs are winning, it's because everyone has a role and is doing the things they need to do to help the Leafs win.

Adding Kane could work, but it might also disrupt the team-building that the Leafs have been doing.

 

[LeafChief]

I agree, on paper, but I agree with @ACC1224 that you have to look at the dressing-room dynamic as well.

I think winning has more to do with team-building than it does with collecting movable pieces.

In the early stages of the season. I thought the Leafs looked lost because they had no sense of identity and no idea of who would do what. After a game in Chicago, it seemed like they started to put it together and play together as a team.

Like him or not, Engvall has a role and is part of that. When the Leafs are winning, it's because everyone has a role and is doing the things they need to do to help the Leafs win.

Adding Kane could work, but it might also disrupt the team-building that the Leafs have been doing.

I hear what you are saying but I would have to ask, is there a winning culture in this dressing room right now that we should be worried about disrupting?

And I'm saying that as someone that very much likes the make-up of this team.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

The Hockey Writers is proposing Holl, Engvall, Mrazek, and Robertson for Klingberg, Pavelski, and Holtby. Imagine if someone proposed that on this site

 

[Ciao]

Well Ritchie has cleared Waivers so they could bury about half his salary in the AHL

They need Ritchie's salary to bring Sandin backup to the NHL roster when his emergency exemption ends.

They could run with six defencemen by leaving one of Sandin or Liljegren on the taxi squad, but in any case, they can only carry 21 players on the NHL roster.

The money saved by sending Ritchie down is already spoken for if the Leafs carry seven defencemen.

If Ritchie had been claimed on waivers, the Leafs would have had room for a 22nd or perhaps even at 23rd player on the roster. That would have been very useful.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Looks like Foligno will be missing time for the Bruins again. Not playing tonight and scheduled for an MRI.

Ritchie has been garbage but I love reading the posts about how we should have known better when the Bruins let him walk. The same Bruins that went and spent 4 million on Foligno.

I still do not understand why people really think this. Has he been great or meeting expectations? Probably not. I don't think he has been garbage though.

If he was on pace for 15 goals and 35 points as a big, physical guy who is mostly on the 4th line and 2PP, I do not think people would really complain about the 2.5 mill price tag. That is what he paces if he even has his non-rookie career worst shooting percentage right now, and he has 2 goals in his last 5 games, so maybe it will start to normalize for him.

Of course, that may still make him expendable given how we structure our lineup, but there would probably be a number of teams willing to give us something to take a guy like that at that price. It's not like he is Jimmy Vesey and has a fairly high shooting percentage and simply is just not doing anything to generate offensive chances.

 

[Havoc]

Every team is going to lose, and sometimes in ugly fashion, it's nothing to panic about. We've played pretty well as of late, and were missing some key players.

That doesn't mean we don't improve the team, if we can, on a cost effective basis.

Exactly. We're currently down 2-3 heading into game 6 against teams we actually care about. Get comfortable and you'll get smacked

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If Ritchie had been claimed on waivers, the Leafs would have had room for a 22nd or perhaps even at 23rd player on the roster. That would have been very useful.

Wouldn't Ritchie technically be like a 22nd guy/13th forward on the roster? Fairly sure Ritchie is better than any other 13th forward we could find elsewhere, and we have a bunch of good guys we can have travelling full time with the team on the taxi squad as well.

 

[LeafChief]

I still do not understand why people really think this. Has he been great or meeting expectations? Probably not. I don't think he has been garbage though.

If he was on pace for 15 goals and 35 points as a big, physical guy who is mostly on the 4th line and 2PP, I do not think people would really complain about the 2.5 mill price tag. That is what he paces if he even has his non-rookie career worst shooting percentage right now, and he has 2 goals in his last 5 games, so maybe it will start to normalize for him.

Of course, that may still make him expendable given how we structure our lineup, but there would probably be a number of teams willing to give us something to take a guy like that at that price. It's not like he is Jimmy Vesey and has a fairly high shooting percentage and simply is just not doing anything to generate offensive chances.

For 2.5 million on a cash strapped team, he needs to be doing more.

Bunting, Kase and Kampf have been solid signings. Can't expect to hit a homerun everytime but to this point, Ritchie has not lived up to his end of the bargain.

 

[Ciao]

I hear what you are saying but I would have to ask, is there a winning culture in this dressing room right now that we should be worried about disrupting?

And I'm saying that as someone that very much likes the make-up of this team.

There might be a winning culture on the Leafs this season. We'll just have to wait and see a little bit?

The 1980 New York Islanders never had a winning culture until they won their first Stanley Cup. They brought in Butch Goring for the playoffs that year – and he is a completely different kind of person than Evander Kane.

It really beats me as to what the Leafs should do, but I am always a proponent of bringing in the right kind of person above all else, and I don't really think Evander Kane meets that standard.

 

[LeafChief]

There might be a winning culture on the Leafs this season. We'll just have to wait and see a little bit?

The 1980 New York Islanders never had a winning culture until they won their first Stanley Cup. They brought in Butch Goring for the playoffs that year – and he is a completely different kind of person than Evander Kane.

It really beats me as to what the Leafs should do, but I am always a proponent of bringing in the right kind of person above all else, and I don't really think Evander Kane meets that standard.

All fair points. I don't think there is an obvious answer either way. Both sides of the argument can make a strong case, that's for sure.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

For 2.5 million on a cash strapped team, he needs to be doing more.

Bunting, Kase and Kampf have been solid signings. Can't expect to hit a homerun everytime but to this point, Ritchie has not lived up to his end of the bargain.

Of course, which is the caveat I laid out in the last paragraph.

In general though, I don't still don't think he has been garbage and I still think there are a number of teams who would be more than fine with what Ritchie has brought at his price. We, with our roster structure, just do not happen to be one of them, even though I am think the Leafs are still more than happy with Ritchie as a player.

 

[LeafChief]

Of course, which is the caveat I laid out in the last paragraph.

In general though, I don't still don't think he has been garbage and I still think there are a number of teams who would be more than fine with what Ritchie has brought at his price. We, with our roster structure, just do not happen to be one of them, even though I am think the Leafs are still more than happy with Ritchie as a player.

Sure, that's fair.

With all of that said, if given the choice right now I'd take the 2.5 in cap space over the option to have Ritchie in the line-up at 2.5 mill.

 

[Ciao]

Wouldn't Ritchie technically be like a 22nd guy/13th forward on the roster? Fairly sure Ritchie is better than any other 13th forward we could find elsewhere, and we have a bunch of good guys we can have travelling full time with the team on the taxi squad as well.

According to Cap Friendly, the Leafs currently have 21 players including Ritchie, but not including Sandin who is an emergency exception.

I presume that sometime Sandin's emergency exception will end and he will have to go down to the taxi squad without a roster move.

I don't think the Leafs would have put Ritchie on waivers – since that would have been completely unnecessary – unless they intended to send him down to the taxi squad if and when Sandin's emergency exemption and Sandin is brought up onto the NHL roster.

If Sandin were added and Ritchie demoted, they would still have 21 players without room for a 22nd contract on the NHL roster. You are quite correct that Ritchie could travel with the team – and he could also play as needed as an emergency exception (as Sandin is doing now). However, anyway you cut it, you can either have 12 forwards and seven defencemen or 13 forwards and six defencemen. There is not enough roster space for one more player as long as Ritchie is still under contract to the Leafs – or some other roster move is made.

The ship has sailed on the Ritchie waivers decision. I'm not sure that is the move I would have made, but that is all over now and he cleared waivers. He is still available to the Leafs.

The question now is who else would you cut to make room for Evander Kane – if the Leafs were to sign him?

I'm just a stupid fan – very stupid – and I like cheering for players and teams that I like. I'm really not that keen on taking a flyer on Evander Kane.

 

[NMacrules]

There might be a winning culture on the Leafs this season. We'll just have to wait and see a little bit?

The 1980 New York Islanders never had a winning culture until they won their first Stanley Cup. They brought in Butch Goring for the playoffs that year – and he is a completely different kind of person than Evander Kane.

It really beats me as to what the Leafs should do, but I am always a proponent of bringing in the right kind of person above all else, and I don't really think Evander Kane meets that standard.

Yes, he has personal issues. But his teammates have gone on record saying he was a very good team mate. It seems the hockey world has judged him without all the facts.

As a player, his is one of the best power forwards in the league. His personal life and his hockey life need to be separate things.

 

[Fogelhund]

The ship has sailed on the Ritchie waivers decision. I'm not sure that is the move I would have made, but that is all over now and he cleared waivers. He is still available to the Leafs.

The question now is who else would you cut to make room for Evander Kane – if the Leafs were to sign him?

.

That's a tough question indeed. I have a tough time with this one, even though I'm a proponent of obtaining him... it's a pretty big risk.

I mean... under a scenario of Kerfoot + Holl + 1st + prospect for Chychrun @ 50% + signing Kane @ 2 years $1.125 mil..... but if Kane doesn't work out... ouch.

 

[NMacrules]

Mrazek for Bouchard and a 2nd?

Ah yes, totally realistic. Great job OP.

Seriously? How is that not fair value? You just wanted to get involved in the conversation to feel better about yourself? Only you thinks its not fair value. Most others think it is fair value and benefits both teams. Leafs need picks and Bouchard is a good up and coming blue chipper. Edmonton needs a goalie. Mrazek is a good goalie. Come on man.

 

[NMacrules]

Of course Voynov has a contract, so we couldn't sign him, if we wanted to. He is 3rd in KHL D men PPG though.

I wonder about Taylor Beck at a reasonable price in the offseason. Ontario born, played in the KHL last few seasons. 6'2" winger, who is nearly PPG this season. 30 years old, probably his last chance to make it into the NHL for a few years.

We have a whole lot less problems in the off season, including cap issues. The cap is going up and we are done paying Kessel. We need to worry about this season and getting out of the first round. The winner of our division will likely go on to win the cup. Leafs will likely have to face one of, and possibly both of Florida and Tampa who are at the top of their games now and have no weak roster spots. They are both contenders.

 

[NMacrules]

The same roster that won 8-3 over the Avs last month?

So you are comparing our win against a depleted Colorado team vs the team that made us choke a 3 goal lead....again? Its those 3 goal leads that are the Leafs Bane. This is a "what have you done for me lately" thing and that lately was another big choke job.

 

[NMacrules]

That wasn't a true representation of either team though. Avs goalie couldn't save anything.

Agreed

 

[Fogelhund]

We have a whole lot less problems in the off season, including cap issues. The cap is going up and we are done paying Kessel. We need to worry about this season and getting out of the first round. The winner of our division will likely go on to win the cup. Leafs will likely have to face one of, and possibly both of Florida and Tampa who are at the top of their games now and have no weak roster spots. They are both contenders.

Any GM worth being a GM, has their eyes both on the the now, and the future. The scouts jobs will be to look for both draft selections and pros whom we might want to sign, both in the the NHL, and in Europe. As has been demonstrated many times, we are a player in Euro Free Agents, and to ignore this is extremely short sighted.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

So you are comparing our win against a depleted Colorado team vs the team that made us choke a 3 goal lead....again? Its those 3 goal leads that are the Leafs Bane. This is a "what have you done for me lately" thing and that lately was another big choke job.

Depleted? They were missing Compher, Murray, and Kuemper. They had all of their big guys and still got dominated. Leafs were missing one of the big four on Saturday, so by your definition, I guess it was a depleted team.

And how many 3 goal leads have the Leafs blown this year?