GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART III

[4thline]

That 1 goal reaaaaaally made him untouchable.

~
He's a career 10% shooter with one goal on 44 shots. The guys been snake bitten, and a 4-8-12 statline (pacing ~11-19-30) is pretty unicornish for a true heavy weight.

 

[SprDaVE]

~
He's a career 10% shooter with one goal on 44 shots. The guys been snake bitten, and a 4-8-12 statline (pacing ~11-19-30) is pretty unicornish for a true heavy weight.

We'll see how he does down the stretch. He was pure garbage for awhile, with a 0% or 50% shooting percentage. He's been fine lately and more comfortable in a 4th line role. Those players can't make 2.5M unfortunately and certainly are not untouchable as originally suggested, and nothing suggests he's some sort of playoff juggernaut. But maybe he'll be Gary Roberts incarnated by the end of the season.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Martin Skoula]

I see people are still fooled into thinking Ritchie can play playoff hockey. He's been better but not so much better we shouldn't be looking to dump him.
What if we goes back to what he was earlier this season? A useless gritty forward who doesn't know what he's doing? I really hope Ritchie's cap hit doesn't prevent us from improving the roster.

He's not even gritty honestly. I can't remember a single noticeable hit from him this season and he sure as shit isn't a first on the forecheck grinder. He's good at occupying space by the net, that's about the extent of what his size is useful for.

 

[LaPlante94]

He's not even gritty honestly. I can't remember a single noticeable hit from him this season and he sure as shit isn't a first on the forecheck grinder. He's good at occupying space by the net, that's about the extent of what his size is useful for.

If only some of you were like this when it came to Holl. One actually costs us games consistently while Ritchie doesn't. Ritchie has put up a point in 6 of our last 10 games, leads our team in hits and yet some still constantly complain about him everyday. If people defended Holl then I don't think they should be complaining about Ritchie because a lot of them and the reasoning they gave for why we should keep Holl were just bad takes and just look worse after each game. Offence hasn't been our problem, PP is 2nd in the league, PK is 13th, Goaltending has been good. Don't think it's a coincidence that now that Muzzin is struggling we get to really see Holl for what he is and not getting carried or as his defenders would call chemistry.

 

[Rude Dog]

..and yet we scouted the most recent game he played in.

It could be that they were just scouting other players, but there isn't much to be interested in either squad otherwise.

TheAHL.com | The American Hockey League

I stand by my comment. Toronto teams owned by public companies will never bring in guys with questionable backgrounds. Simply not worth the public backlash.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If only some of you were like this when it came to Holl. One actually costs us games consistently while Ritchie doesn't. Ritchie has put up a point in 6 of our last 10 games, leads our team in hits and yet some still constantly complain about him everyday. If people defended Holl then I don't think they should be complaining about Ritchie because a lot of them and the reasoning they gave for why we should keep Holl were just bad takes and just look worse after each game. Offence hasn't been our problem, PP is 2nd in the league, PK is 13th, Goaltending has been good. Don't think it's a coincidence that now that Muzzin is struggling we get to really see Holl for what he is and not getting carried or as his defenders would call chemistry.

Holl's been bad but I at least have a sense of what his ceiling is and can gamble on him getting back to what he was in the Edmonton series last year. If Ritchie was on one game and disappeared for 5 that would be better, but he's pretty consistently mediocre and I just haven't seen the upside worth gambling on yet.

 

[Buds17]

If only some of you were like this when it came to Holl. One actually costs us games consistently while Ritchie doesn't. Ritchie has put up a point in 6 of our last 10 games, leads our team in hits and yet some still constantly complain about him everyday. If people defended Holl then I don't think they should be complaining about Ritchie because a lot of them and the reasoning they gave for why we should keep Holl were just bad takes and just look worse after each game. Offence hasn't been our problem, PP is 2nd in the league, PK is 13th, Goaltending has been good. Don't think it's a coincidence that now that Muzzin is struggling we get to really see Holl for what he is and not getting carried or as his defenders would call chemistry.

This might be a comparison of apples and oranges. Holl ranks higher on the blueline depth chart than Ritchie does among the forward group (agree and/or disagree on the merits of either or both). Holl also carries the (slightly?) lesser cap hit. Somewhat notable players figure to be on the outs at both forward and defence if and when the team becomes fully healthy.

 

[Stephen]

Scott Reedy, Will Lockwood, Joel Kellman, John Stevens, Madison Bowey, a number of other somewhat younger San Jose Barracuda's who could be of interest in a potential swap. We may be moving Pierre Engvall at some point, and Vancouver/San Jose could be two potential destinations.

And then add in San Jose is playing Dallas in the NHL. Two teams who could be selling. We could have been scouting them too and decided to catch the AHL game in the same building earlier in the day.

I don't think anyone really needs to scout Evander Kane.

San Jose is really good at incubating those Barclay Goodrow, Jasper Weatherby, Jonah Gadjovich big grinder type guys. Toronto or any of those organizations could be looking at anything in addition to having a peek at Kane.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I stand by my comment. Toronto teams owned by public companies will never bring in guys with questionable backgrounds. Simply not worth the public backlash.

I think MLSE is smarter than that for sure...if this was in the past....sure.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

That 1 goal reaaaaaally made him untouchable.

Him a legend now.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Leafs - Coyotes Blockbuster
Jacob Chychrun & Lawson Crouse
for
Nick Robertson, Topi Niemela, Justin Holl, Ilya Mikheyev & 1st

Bit of an overpay for the Leafs, but we get a top pair Dman locked into a team friendly contract and a top 9 Power forward.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Crouse - - - Kampf - - - Kase
Ritchie - Spezza - Simmonds

Rielly - - - Brodie
Muzzin - Chychrun
Sandin - Liljigren

 

[Fogelhund]

Leafs - Coyotes Blockbuster
Jacob Chychrun & Lawson Crouse
for
Nick Robertson, Topi Niemela, Justin Holl, Ilya Mikheyev & 1st

Bit of an overpay for the Leafs, but we get a top pair Dman locked into a team friendly contract and a top 9 Power forward.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Crouse - - - Kampf - - - Kase
Ritchie - Spezza - Simmonds

Rielly - - - Brodie
Muzzin - Chychrun
Sandin - Liljigren

Some $3 mil over the cap though....

 

[TML1967]

Some $3 mil over the cap though....

Move Ritchie, replace him with Anderson (750k) and have them retain 50% on Crouse? He only has 1.533mx1 year remaining.
Leafs could take Hudson Fasching to help balance the cash cost, his AHL salary is 225k.

 

[TML1967]

I'm still thinking the Leafs should be all over Lyubushkin and Crouse. Over the 16 games I've watched of Arizona, Lyubushkin has looked better than Holl and Liljegren. I don't think he would end up in the top 4 but as a Holl replacement for now, absolutely. Crouse has speed. He hits often and hard. He's been killing penalties quite well too. Has a good wrister as well.

I am a Lybushkin fan, but not sure he is a good partner for Muzzin. Maybe he can help create a more 'shut down' style, but one of the things last years version of Holl did to help Muzzin out was he could help get the puck to our forward core. He seems ideal for a Sandin type, a big bodied d-first partner. Maybe he helps create a better balance?
Reilly-Brodie, Muzzin-Liljgren, Sandin-Lybushkin. <- Each pair has a shut down guy, and a puck mover.
Reilly- Brodie, Muzzin-Lybushkin, Sandin-Liljgren. <- Balanced top pair, Defensive minded second pair, young and relatively balanced third pair.

Crouse, I would love. I think he is what a good amount of Torontonians want in their bottom 6 and his game seems to be built for the playoffs. Him and Simmonds on a 4th line could really wreck havoc. He is also still an RFA after this year, so might make sense to get a more cost controlled asset. I have been rather impressed with how much he has improved his skating from his draft year.

Only issue us what wingers get cut?
Bunting, Mikheyev, Ritchie, Kerfoot, Engval are all good NHLers in the right situation.
Maybe Bunting-Matthews, Kerfoot - Tavares, Mikheyev -Kampf, Crouse-Spezza? But what do you do with Ritchie and Engval, or are they part of the package going back?

 

[Kurtz]

The guy we pair with Muzzin definitely needs to be able to move the puck, as that's not a strength for Muzzin.

 

[jaric1862]

Anything not on this roster (picks, prospects), should be available for a top 4 RH defenceman with term. I'm sure we could get something with a decent package.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Leafs - Coyotes Blockbuster
Jacob Chychrun & Lawson Crouse
for
Nick Robertson, Topi Niemela, Justin Holl, Ilya Mikheyev & 1st

Bit of an overpay for the Leafs, but we get a top pair Dman locked into a team friendly contract and a top 9 Power forward.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Crouse - - - Kampf - - - Kase
Ritchie - Spezza - Simmonds

Rielly - - - Brodie
Muzzin - Chychrun
Sandin - Liljigren

Dude. No team should ever be interested in overpaying. Also trading Niemela and Robertson has way, way too much risk.

 

[mydnyte]

I stand by my comment. Toronto teams owned by public companies will never bring in guys with questionable backgrounds. Simply not worth the public backlash.

oh please, they get enough public backlash based on their crappy service, and customer service, and dont care about that, but, you think a negative comment about a player on a sports team that makes them big $$ will have an impact?

 

[dubplatepressure]

I see people are still fooled into thinking Ritchie can play playoff hockey. He's been better but not so much better we shouldn't be looking to dump him.
What if we goes back to what he was earlier this season? A useless gritty forward who doesn't know what he's doing? I really hope Ritchie's cap hit doesn't prevent us from improving the roster.

Doesn't matter, and he won't.

 

[SprDaVE]

Anything not on this roster (picks, prospects), should be available for a top 4 RH defenceman with term. I'm sure we could get something with a decent package.

I think that's a dangerous game to play and could be very irresponsible. Amirov or Niemela or Robertson shouldn't be available for any and every RH top 4 defensemen, even if they have term. Those prospects are close to NHL quality and their cheap costs could be vital for the Leafs to keep being highly competitive as early as next season.

And even then, that's easier said than done. There aren't many available top RH defenseman with term available that would also fit our cap structure. It would really depend on the player but looking at potential targets... I don't see many that fit the bill.

The Leafs have traded and given up a lot of futures over the last couple seasons to go for it. I hope the Leafs don't overreact and just adjust with what they have this time around. Look for depth upgrades or efficient players that could give you a boost for cheap. We'll see how it goes over the next 3 months though and a lot can change in that time frame.

 

[aingefan]

I think that's a dangerous game to play and could be very irresponsible. Amirov or Niemela or Robertson shouldn't be available for any and every RH top 4 defensemen, even if they have term. Those prospects are close to NHL quality and their cheap costs could be vital for the Leafs to keep being highly competitive as early as next season.

And even then, that's easier said than done. There aren't many available top RH defenseman with term available that would also fit our cap structure. It would really depend the player but looking at potential targets... I don't see many that fit the bill.

The Leafs have traded and given up a lot of futures over the last couple seasons to go for it. I hope the Leafs don't overreact and just adjust with what they have this time around. Look for depth upgrades or efficient players that could give you a boost for cheap. We'll see how it goes over the next 3 months though and a lot can change in that time frame.

Pretty much agree.
I could see one of Amirov/Robertson being available, but agree the fit would need to be perfect: predictably impactful, super cap friendly, great production:aav ratio, with probably 3 year term.
That’s a rare fit.

 

[meefer]

I need help with this one, I don't follow the Yotes that much, but have always been intrigued by Crouse. There seems to be some favorable impressions here about Ilya Lyubushkin, and after taking a look at Natural Stat Trick, I'd argue he's a defensive upgrade to Holl. Others more adept may suggest otherwise. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that Arizona is looking to the future by acquiring as many picks as they have, and that their team today will not be their team tomorrow. A simple lateral move won't do it, but is the basis of the suggestion:

To Arizona: Ritchie and Holl +
To Toronto: Crouse and Lyubushkin +

The contracts as they stand now favor Arizona: tomorrow they'd assume 4.5M over this year and next, while Toronto takes on 2.9M, but for just this year with Crouse being a RFA and Lyubushkin becoming an UFA. Toronto, gains 1.6M in cap space this year. Obviously, the opportunity is in the '+'.

If Ritchie and Holl are joined by Gogolev/Holmberg, both doing ok - by numbers at least - does that tip the scales for Arizona to throw Crouse and Lyubushkin + their 5th/6th our way? Is that a trade we could sell? Arizona gets some cap certainty for next year, a young player trending well, and no commitment beyond the time frame where they'd be introducing some of their stronger draft picks. Toronto gets a comparable to Ritchie at F, offering a bit more, but not much, and a Dman less prone to errors, while adding a late pick to help the cause. Reasonable or not?

 

[SprDaVE]

I need help with this one, I don't follow the Yotes that much, but have always been intrigued by Crouse. There seems to be some favorable impressions here about Ilya Lyubushkin, and after taking a look at Natural Stat Trick, I'd argue he's a defensive upgrade to Holl. Others more adept may suggest otherwise. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that Arizona is looking to the future by acquiring as many picks as they have, and that their team today will not be their team tomorrow. A simple lateral move won't do it, but is the basis of the suggestion:

To Arizona: Ritchie and Holl +
To Toronto: Crouse and Lyubushkin +

The contracts as they stand now favor Arizona: tomorrow they'd assume 4.5M over this year and next, while Toronto takes on 2.9M, but for just this year with Crouse being a RFA and Lyubushkin becoming an UFA. Toronto, gains 1.6M in cap space this year. Obviously, the opportunity is in the '+'.

If Ritchie and Holl are joined by Gogolev/Holmberg, both doing ok - by numbers at least - does that tip the scales for Arizona to throw Crouse and Lyubushkin + their 5th/6th our way? Is that a trade we could sell? Arizona gets some cap certainty for next year, a young player trending well, and no commitment beyond the time frame where they'd be introducing some of their stronger draft picks. Toronto gets a comparable to Ritchie at F, offering a bit more, but not much, and a Dman less prone to errors, while adding a late pick to help the cause. Reasonable or not?

Many people have suggested to do this, myself included, and it makes sense for the Leafs. It gives much needed cap space without removing quality. Crouse is very similar to Ritchie in a lot of ways and Lyub is a competent RHD bottom pairing defenseman that would probably give similar or just slightly worse results but at a cheaper price.

I would say the Leafs could probably give up their 3rd in 2023 and this might be at least close to fair but they might value Crouse a whole lot more than I do. It gives the Coyotes a couple bodies to finish the season since they will be selling everything they can. They are serviceable and not dead weight. They can easily flip those players in the off-season or into next years deadline for even more pick(s).

Another player I'd be calling the Coyotes about would be Hayton.

 

[Fogelhund]

I need help with this one, I don't follow the Yotes that much, but have always been intrigued by Crouse. There seems to be some favorable impressions here about Ilya Lyubushkin, and after taking a look at Natural Stat Trick, I'd argue he's a defensive upgrade to Holl. Others more adept may suggest otherwise. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that Arizona is looking to the future by acquiring as many picks as they have, and that their team today will not be their team tomorrow. A simple lateral move won't do it, but is the basis of the suggestion:

To Arizona: Ritchie and Holl +
To Toronto: Crouse and Lyubushkin +

The contracts as they stand now favor Arizona: tomorrow they'd assume 4.5M over this year and next, while Toronto takes on 2.9M, but for just this year with Crouse being a RFA and Lyubushkin becoming an UFA. Toronto, gains 1.6M in cap space this year. Obviously, the opportunity is in the '+'.

If Ritchie and Holl are joined by Gogolev/Holmberg, both doing ok - by numbers at least - does that tip the scales for Arizona to throw Crouse and Lyubushkin + their 5th/6th our way? Is that a trade we could sell? Arizona gets some cap certainty for next year, a young player trending well, and no commitment beyond the time frame where they'd be introducing some of their stronger draft picks. Toronto gets a comparable to Ritchie at F, offering a bit more, but not much, and a Dman less prone to errors, while adding a late pick to help the cause. Reasonable or not?

Gogolev I'm fine with moving. Holmberg I'm not. This is a kid who has a future with us. I like the idea of adding both Crouse and Lyubushkin. It would probably be more expensive than you've suggested though.

Another deal I'd consider.... Kivihalme to Chicago for Nylander. Nylander is clearly in bust territory, seems to have the skills, but lacks the drive to take the next step. Maybe a change in scenery, maybe nearer his brother... maybe living together.. .maybe he puts it together. Unlikely, but then it's a no risk move, and it's unlikely Chicago even tenders him an offer.