GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART III

[SprDaVE]

Chychrun is a very good Cored top four, maybe top pairing D, at 23. He's got size, skating and can play physical. He's got a great shot, can man the PP, and the PK.

Now, having said all, some people have overrated him, based on last years points totals. He was used very heavily offensively last year, and with Ghost on the team now, it's much more balanced. Ghost is getting the prime offensive opportunities now, as he's more talented offensively. Similarly, Rielly would be ahead of Chychrun here.

Chychrun played RD in Junior, and is capable of playing either side... so that's not a problem.

To me, if he's available, it just comes down to cost. He's worth more than Muzzin cost.. but I don't think it's elite D cost either. If Arizona wants such a package... too bad, we aren't paying that. Arizona fans think he's worth the world.

The NHL is not the CHL. It's a far different beast and it's been a long time. I wouldn't take a winger in the NHL that played center in Junior as a reason to acquire him to play center for my NHL team... It's the same thing here.

Everyone can play their off-side. Can they do it well at the NHL level? I'm not sure I'm risking top end assets to find out.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Sandin has produced 9 points in 26 GP with less TOI than Chychrun while Chychrun only has 7 pts in 26GP

Sandin is producing at a 28 point pace and Chychrun paced for approx 34 points at the same age, although that was his 4th season.

Our left side of defense is just fine, no need to blow the bank for something we really don't need. If Chychrun was a right shot, you definitely make a big offer but burning some big trade chips in 1 shot isn't a smart idea.

None of our d-men have a clapper. If we got Chychrun he'd get a run with PP1. That's his ticket into prime offensive opportunities here, not to mention he'd be heavily involved in a much better transition game here. Arizona simply cannot touch our top 6.

The fact we lack a clapper on the backend makes him a must acquire if Coyotes offer him to us and they don't want the farm. He's 23, we won't have to worry about no bomb on the backend for another decade. It's really frustrating year after year not getting any one timers from the point. Chychrun makes our team much more dynamic.

I'm already picturing those Nylander entries, spin back to Jakob one timer. People who say Jakob isn't a need are simply incorrect. We would have the best transition game in the league and it wouldn't be close by rolling Rielly for 25 minutes a game and Chychrun for 20. This roster will allow Chychrun to find his ceiling.

 

[Havoc]

None of our d-men have a clapper. If we got Chychrun he'd get a run with PP1. That's his ticket into prime offensive opportunities here, not to mention he'd be heavily involved in a much better transition game here. Arizona simply cannot touch our top 6.

The fact we lack a clapper on the backend makes him a must acquire if Coyotes offer him to us and they don't want the farm. He's 23, we won't have to worry about no bomb on the backend for another decade. It's really frustrating year after year not getting any one timers from the point. Chychrun makes our team much more dynamic.

I'm already picturing those Nylander entries, spin back to Jakob one timer. People who say Jakob isn't a need are simply incorrect. We would have the best transition game in the league and it wouldn't be close by rolling Rielly for 25 minutes a game and Chychrun for 20. This roster will allow Chychrun to find his ceiling.

Sort of hard to turn him down after calling out our muffin issue from the point lol

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Chychrun is nice, but it would be more helpful to find a playoff-proven RHD. Doesn't have to be a glamorous name.

 

[francis246]

On the flip side, many defensemen and even forwards struggle playing their off-side. Muzzin and Rielly struggled badly as a pairing because neither could play the right as well as they did on their natural side. Brodie has had many many many years of playing RD as a leftie.

I don't really count Junior as a reason to say Chychrun can play his off-side just like Marner isn't a center at the NHL level just because he played it in Junior.

It's most certainly something to keep in mind and not just tossing it to the side as an after thought.

I think we all like Chychrun as a player around here but the cost to acquire is far too high for his efficiency, which isn't even that impressive, and also his handedness. Let's not forget that his cap hit isn't overly easy to fit either. We're entering Seth Jones levels of assets to acquire and that's ... not good.

I mean marner played bit's and pieces at center for games. Chychrun has literally only played LD once he got to the NHL. He played RD his entire career up to that point. Even played RD at the world Juniors. So i'm not sure why you're using Rielly as comparable's when they haven't been relied up to do it except for a few games in his career. Additionally Muzzin is able to play RD, he did it successfully in LA an entire year. It really seems like Rielly was the issue there not Muzzin. It wasn't even that Muzzin couldn't play RD, it was the Muzzin and Rielly were not a good fit together.

We've also seen other LHD play on the Right side in toronto have lots of success. Jake Gardiner did it here in Toronto for a number of years, Dermott plays the right side really well. What about all those years before Cody Franson, when we barely had RHD on our roster and were running LD-LD pairings. So it's useless to site one guy who couldn't do it and base your entire argument on it.

i said it can be a player like him, so Mayfield any other RHD you see as equivalent or better. I really don't care as long as they get someone. We have a lot of assets, they should use them. Good teams burn assets to win cups, trust our scouting department to replenish the cupboards. If we as a fan base are scared to accept management moving assets to actually make a deep run idk what to say, kinda sad that we'll be stuck in the same position for years.

 

[SprDaVE]

I mean marner played bit's and pieces at center for games. Chychrun has literally only played LD once he got to the NHL. He played RD his entire career up to that point. Even played RD at the world Juniors. So i'm not sure why you're using Rielly as comparable's when they haven't been relied up to do it except for a few games in their careers. Additionally Muzzin is able to play RD, he did it successfully in LA an entire year. It really seems like Rielly was the issue there not Muzzin. It wasn't even that Muzzin couldn't play RD, it was the Muzzin and Rielly were not a good fit together. We've also seen other LHD play on the Right side in toronto have lots of success. Jake Gardiner did it here in Toronto for a number of years, Dermott plays the right side really well. What about all those years before Cody Franson, when we barely had RHD on our roster and were running LD-LD pairings. So it's useless to site one guy who couldn't do it and base your entire argument on it. But because it's me who's saying it LOL, no one will acknowledge those facts that prove it's been done by players with "less" skill than Rielly. People will flock to like your post!

i said it can be a player like him, so Mayfield any other RHD you see as equivalent or better. I really don't care as long as they get someone. We have a lot of assets, they should use them. Good teams burn assets to win cups, trust our scouting department to replenish the cupboards. If we as a fan base are scared to accept management moving assets to actually make a deep run idk what to say, kinda sad that we'll be stuck in the same position for years.

It was an example, not just one player for a whole argument. Many players can play their offside... everyone can really. It's not rocket science and I get it. Juniors and World Juniors is not the NHL though and players that have played their off-side on a position doesn't mean they are suited for it at the NHL.

Marner has never started or finished a game as a center with the Leafs, he's only taken draws after the center was kicked out, which is not playing center. It's how well they do it that makes a huge difference and the point of the argument. Rielly was always so much better on the left, same for Gardiner and same for Dermott. Muzzin played a little bit on the right but he admitted that he much prefers the left and he was much better there.

 

[zeke]

It was an example, not just one player for a whole argument. Many players can play their offside... everyone can really. It's how well they do it that makes a huge difference. Rielly was always so much better on the left, same for Gardiner and same for Dermott. Muzzin played a little bit on the right but he admitted that he much prefers the left and he was much better there.

I'll always have a bone to pick with this one.

No matter what Babcock claimed, Muzzin-Rielly was a fantastic pairing in the ~2 weeks he let them play together.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'll always have a bone to pick with this one.

No matter what Babcock claimed, Muzzin-Rielly was a fantastic pairing in the ~2 weeks he let them play together.

I don't remember them being "fantastic" but they probably were fine. Both are great players. I remember the headlines that they were struggling as a duo... so I probably exaggerated the "struggling badly" part from those headlines.

Just like Im sure Chychrun would do fine as a RD next to Muzzin in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Last year's playoffs were a disaster on all fronts and for many reasons. But one thing I feel it did which may not be considered, is it made it tougher to evaluate what we need. Because the core 4, ok let's be honest, Willy was great and Tavares was hurt, so because our big Ms were not good enough, it becomes harder to evaluate what is needed.

I mean, I guess the thing that is needed the most is them to perform. The issue is, it made it hard to evaluate the rest. Had the core done some damage and this team made the final 4, it would be easier to pinpoint what is needed around the edges. Instead it is a bit more of a guessing game.

One debate here is what does the team need more? A top LW or a top 4 RHD? Honestly it feels like neither in a sense. If the core 4 all perform, the team won't need that LW scoring. And I know we all have PTSD with our defence and for good reason. But really they haven't been an issue since Keefe took over. Ya we see some pizzas tossed and poor coverage leading to odd man rushes, but that happens to every team every game. The goals have been kept out since Keefe took over. Especially now as well since Campbell seems to have alleviated any issues that had crept into the goaltending position once Andersen became crap.

I think the team getting out of their own heads would be the biggest upgrade, rather than any single player/position.

 

[francis246]

It was an example, not just one player for a whole argument. Many players can play their offside... everyone can really. It's not rocket science and I get it. Juniors and World Juniors is not the NHL though and players that have played their off-side on a position doesn't mean they are suited for it at the NHL.

Marner has never started or finished a game as a center with the Leafs, he's only taken draws after the center was kicked out, which is not playing center. It's how well they do it that makes a huge difference and the point of the argument. Rielly was always so much better on the left, same for Gardiner and same for Dermott. Muzzin played a little bit on the right but he admitted that he much prefers the left and he was much better there.

I meant for Marner, he rarely played center in junior. It was only a few games here and there that he did.

 

[francis246]

I'll always have a bone to pick with this one.

No matter what Babcock claimed, Muzzin-Rielly was a fantastic pairing in the ~2 weeks he let them play together.

Idk about fantastic but it wasn’t a complete disaster like babcock made it seem. They did okay. Both are capable of doing, hell most top defenseman can do it because growing up there aren’t a lot of RHD so some had to play the right side

 

[francis246]

I don't remember them being "fantastic" but they probably were fine. Both are great players. I remember the headlines that they were struggling as a duo... so I probably exaggerated the "struggling badly" part from those headlines.

Just like Im sure Chychrun would do fine as a RD next to Muzzin in the grand scheme of things.

I think ultimately we put too much stock into things that don’t matter. If we have 4 left hand d and it wins us a cup then so be it right? It’s really about putting the best group group of defenseman together. Of course ideally you’d like that one righty! But idk I just feel like we have the fowards we need another defenseman, don’t matter who as long as their underlying numbers are good and they can defend.

 

[Kurtz]

yep ........ its a joke stat ..

sandin would be -60 on that team

-29 in 26 games is historic level of futility bad, though. The next worst guy on that team is only -14.

 

[Havoc]

Last year's playoffs were a disaster on all fronts and for many reasons. But one thing I feel it did which may not be considered, is it made it tougher to evaluate what we need. Because the core 4, ok let's be honest, Willy was great and Tavares was hurt, so because our big Ms were not good enough, it becomes harder to evaluate what is needed.

I mean, I guess the thing that is needed the most is them to perform. The issue is, it made it hard to evaluate the rest. Had the core done some damage and this team made the final 4, it would be easier to pinpoint what is needed around the edges. Instead it is a bit more of a guessing game.

One debate here is what does the team need more? A top LW or a top 4 RHD? Honestly it feels like neither in a sense. If the core 4 all perform, the team won't need that LW scoring. And I know we all have PTSD with our defence and for good reason. But really they haven't been an issue since Keefe took over. Ya we see some pizzas tossed and poor coverage leading to odd man rushes, but that happens to every team every game. The goals have been kept out since Keefe took over. Especially now as well since Campbell seems to have alleviated any issues that had crept into the goaltending position once Andersen became crap.

I think the team getting out of their own heads would be the biggest upgrade, rather than any single player/position.

My anxiety with the defence is that the defence from the forwards is pretty much elite. Can you think of one forward on the team who doesn't back check? Our defence is sheltered with amazing two-way forwards. Nylander used to piss people off with the back check but even he cleaned that up now.

The actual blue line is a bit overrated. An upgrade to the second pairing is a must if the goal is the stanley cup. All this partying right now over how good our team is becomes worthless without a deep run.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Last year's playoffs were a disaster on all fronts and for many reasons. But one thing I feel it did which may not be considered, is it made it tougher to evaluate what we need. Because the core 4, ok let's be honest, Willy was great and Tavares was hurt, so because our big Ms were not good enough, it becomes harder to evaluate what is needed.

I mean, I guess the thing that is needed the most is them to perform. The issue is, it made it hard to evaluate the rest. Had the core done some damage and this team made the final 4, it would be easier to pinpoint what is needed around the edges. Instead it is a bit more of a guessing game.

One debate here is what does the team need more? A top LW or a top 4 RHD? Honestly it feels like neither in a sense. If the core 4 all perform, the team won't need that LW scoring. And I know we all have PTSD with our defence and for good reason. But really they haven't been an issue since Keefe took over. Ya we see some pizzas tossed and poor coverage leading to odd man rushes, but that happens to every team every game. The goals have been kept out since Keefe took over. Especially now as well since Campbell seems to have alleviated any issues that had crept into the goaltending position once Andersen became crap.

I think the team getting out of their own heads would be the biggest upgrade, rather than any single player/position.

To get out of the first round, yes, all they need is to get out of their own heads.

To win the cup, they will have to upgrade the team in one or both positions. Just as a comparison, Tampa was also doing well in 2019/20 but still went out to get Coleman + Goodrow. Those two added a lot of value during their cup run and pushed them over the top.

If they keep the status quo, I don't think this team will win the cup. The weaknesses will get exploited by a better, playoff-hardened team.

 

[uncleben]

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