GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART III

[Funk21]

No he can’t be trusted. He burned us twice in the Playoffs. He has burned the Avs once too.

He will parlay his success this year to a 6-7 year deal at 7 million per and when it comes down to it he likely do something stupid which will cost his team a round. Great player but a head case who just can’t balance the line of being aggressive and getting under the other teams skin and going over that line and costing his team.

 

[ULF_55]

No he can’t be trusted. He burned us twice in the Playoffs. He has burned the Avs once too.

He will parlay his success this year to a 6-7 year deal at 7 million per and when it comes down to it he likely do something stupid which will cost his team a round. Great player but a head case who just can’t balance the line of being aggressive and getting under the other teams skin and going over that line and costing his team.

Yeah you would think anyone with half a brain would get it.

 

[Knies iT]

Hes playing on the bottom pair of one of the worst team defensivly in the NHL... so yes hes a bottom pair dman

Averaging close to 18min/GP on a team that relatively evenly rotates it’s bottom two pairings as a 2a/2b grouping.

Suggesting he’s interchangeable with Holl is questionable if you’ve watched him play.

 

[zeke]

Even Strength TOI

1. Larsson 19:59
1. Rielly 19:10
2. Muzzin 18:31
3. Brodie 18:23
2. Oleksiak 18:00
4. Holl 17:46
3. Dunn 17:42
4. Giordano 17:15
5. Soucy 16:11
6. Fleury 15:37
7. Lauzon 15:32
5. Liljegren 15:07
6. Sandin 14:47
7. Dermott 14:27

You can't just say he's not a bottom pair dman when he is.

And this is by far the most ice time he's received in his career.

He may be playing very well on the bottom pair but our guys have also been awesome when playing on the bottom pair.

 

[Knies iT]

Even Strength TOI

1. Larsson 19:59
1. Rielly 19:10
2. Muzzin 18:31
3. Brodie 18:23
2. Oleksiak 18:00
4. Holl 17:46
3. Dunn 17:42
4. Giordano 17:15
5. Soucy 16:11
6. Fleury 15:37
7. Lauzon 15:32
5. Liljegren 15:07
6. Sandin 14:47
7. Dermott 14:27

You can't just say he's not a bottom pair dman when he is.

And this is by far the most ice time he's received in his career.

He may be playing very well on the bottom pair but our guys have also been awesome when playing on the bottom pair.

So Giordano is a bottom pair D because his TOI is less than Holl?

You’re comparing a top GA team in the league to one of the worst teams in the league, which makes his impact more impressive. Swap Soucy/Holl situations and it gets ugly for the latter.

The consensus among Kraken fans is that he’s a 4D. Matches my eye test and I view Holl as a 6D, hence the upgrade.

 

[zeke]

So Giordano is a bottom pair D because his TOI is less than Holl?

You’re comparing a top GA team in the league to one of the worst teams in the league, which makes his impact more impressive. Swap Soucy/Holl situations and it gets ugly for the latter.

The consensus among Kraken fans is that he’s a 4D. Matches my eye test and I view Holl as a 6D, hence the upgrade.

Not sure what exactly a 38yr old Giordano is at this point, though he gets some leeway as he plays on both special teams and big minutes on the top PP unit too. I wouldn't think he's much more than an OK 2nd pair guy at this point, and maybe soon to be less than that.

But he's a 2nd pair dman for the Kraken this year while Soucy is on the bottom pair. Even tonight with Dunn out, Soucy remains on the bottom pair while Lauzon moves up into Dunn's spot.

And again, this is by far the most ice time 27yr old Soucy has ever received in his career. This is the first time we can even call him a #5 dman instead of a #6/7 dman.

 

[thusk]

Normally when you looking to trade for someone at trade deadline, you want tonupgrade yourself.

I just don't see where soucy should be an upgrade over holl.

Averaging close to 18min/GP on a team that relatively evenly rotates it’s bottom two pairings as a 2a/2b grouping.

Suggesting he’s interchangeable with Holl is questionable if you’ve watched him play.

When you trade for someone, it should be for an upgrade. The grass is not always greenee at the neighbor.

Holl you can like or dislike him, hes still playing 18 Min at 5on5 in one of best 5on 5 defensive team. 2 or 3 pn PK. 16.1 % of the time he started on a defensive faceoff ( most of the time (The most of both team). Most of the time, opponent will send one of their 2 best lime on offensive zone. You can add at 5.6% on offensive zone, no body started less offensive faceoff than holl ( closiest is lauzon at 7.6%). Its a pretty hard situation to looking great...

 

[WTFMAN99]

Sorry but Soucy is really not an upgrade over holl.

The guy im looking for is Connor Murphy. A big 6'4 physical shutdown right shot dman who can play against top pairing matchup. He's the perfect target for TML.

Murphy just signed an extension to stay there and avoid this year's UFA.

 

[Knies iT]

Not sure what exactly a 38yr old Giordano is at this point, though he gets some leeway as he plays on both special teams and big minutes on the top PP unit too. I wouldn't think he's much more than an OK 2nd pair guy at this point, and maybe soon to be less than that.

But he's a 2nd pair dman for the Kraken this year while Soucy is on the bottom pair. Even tonight with Dunn out, Soucy remains on the bottom pair while Lauzon moves up into Dunn's spot.

And again, this is by far the most ice time 27yr old Soucy has ever received in his career. This is the first time we can even call him a #5 dman instead of a #6/7 dman.

His "entire career" consists of only 2 seasons prior to this one, so it's not as if he has an extensive track record of being a fringe replacement level player. He's a late bloomer out of the NCAA.

He's also been blocked by Spurgeon/Dumba/Brodin and Giordano/Oleksiak/Larsson/Dunn on both teams, all of which are top 4 D.

Comes down to preference and he fits this blueline perfectly stylistically. Great shot suppressor, highly mobile, would be the 2nd most physical D here, can play both sides.

My bar for upgrading Holl might be lower than most admittedly.

 

[zeke]

His "entire career" consists of only 2 seasons prior to this one, so it's not as if he has an extensive track record of being a fringe replacement level player. He's a late bloomer out of the NCAA.

He's also been blocked by Spurgeon/Dumba/Brodin and Giordano/Oleksiak/Larsson/Dunn on both teams, all of which are top 4 D.

Comes down to preference and he fits this blueline perfectly stylistically. Great shot suppressor, highly mobile, would be the 2nd most physical D here, can play both sides.

My bar for upgrading Holl might be lower than most admittedly.

I'm not sure why you give credit to the Kraken for having more top 4 dmen than the Leafs tbh, considering how much better a team the Leafs are.

As for shot suppression - he has similar numbers in that area to guys like Lilly and Sandin on the Leafs. I.e. other bottom pair guys.

But his defense seems to be limited to shot suppression - his expected goals against is quite mediocre, indicating that he likely gets burnt badly when he gets beat. Which wouldn't be a huge surprise given the lack of footspeed which kept him out of the league so long.

And imo putting up mediocre numbers in bottom pair usage is not an upgrade on what the Leafs have. All of Holl Lilly Sandin Dermott have put up great numbers when used on the bottom pairing.

 

[Kiwi]

Normally when you looking to trade for someone at trade deadline, you want tonupgrade yourself.

I just don't see where soucy should be an upgrade over holl.


When you trade for someone, it should be for an upgrade. The grass is not always greenee at the neighbor.

Holl you can like or dislike him, hes still playing 18 Min at 5on5 in one of best 5on 5 defensive team. 2 or 3 pn PK. 16.1 % of the time he started on a defensive faceoff ( most of the time (The most of both team). Most of the time, opponent will send one of their 2 best lime on offensive zone. You can add at 5.6% on offensive zone, no body started less offensive faceoff than holl ( closiest is lauzon at 7.6%). Its a pretty hard situation to looking great...

That's great but Holl's been brutal, as in bloody awful and he's making Muzzin look bloody awful as well

Soucy may not be a solution but we need something better than Holl even if it's giving Sandin or Liljegren a go instead

 

[zeke]

Liljegren has been in the top 4 and Holl on the bottom pair for a few games now.

 

[thusk]

That's great but Holl's been brutal, as in bloody awful and he's making Muzzin look bloody awful as well

Soucy may not be a solution but we need something better than Holl even if it's giving Sandin or Liljegren a go instead

With an extension on murphy, option to upgrade holl are pretty tight.

Mamson/ lindholm if anaheim drop

Chiarot is a lefty who dont really play right side

So if anaheim don't start to lose, the only option as an real upgrade left is probably damon severson and dubas will need to find a way to clear enought cap space for it.

 

[Kiwi]

Liljegren has been in the top 4 and Holl on the bottom pair for a few games now.

Keefe doesn't stick with it, Holl is still getting the benifit of the doubt

He doesn't deserve

With an extension on murphy, option to upgrade holl are pretty tight.

Mamson/ lindholm if anaheim drop

Chiarot is a lefty who dont really play right side

So if anaheim don't start to lose, the only option as an real upgrade left is probably damon severson and dubas will need to find a way to clear enought cap space for it.

Severson isn't good, his defensive game is well below par

Manson hasn't been good for awhile, Lindholm is a lefty just like Chiarot

 

[thusk]

Keefe doesn't stick with it, Holl is still getting the benifit of the doubt

He doesn't deserve



Severson isn't good, his defensive game is well below par

Manson hasn't been good for awhile, Lindholm is a lefty just like Chiarot

Yeah He's maybe not a shutdown dmen and more a transitionnal dmen but 1 thing is sure, hes not below par defensivly and probably the only player who could be avaible at a reasonable price to be a real upgrade over holl

 

[The Iceman]

NAZ is a lazy player by nature motivated in his UFA year.

He will get his bank and disappoint over the long haul 100% if he gets paid by this years stats.

 

[Koolboss]

NAZ is a lazy player by nature motivated in his UFA year.

He will get his bank and disappoint over the long haul 100% if he gets paid by this years stats.

This thread is not about trashing the player, you can do that on the Kadri VS Bozak threads lol

 

[A1LeafNation]

Ppl ripping on JT and he's been great for us.

Imagine signing a lesser player from the 2009 draft...who already is on the refs blacklist.

Lol yeah great idea.

 

[LeafSteel]

To Toronto-
Mccann
Soucy

To Seattle-
Holl
Kerfoot
Engvall

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Mccann-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase
Ritchie-Spezza-Simmonds

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Sandin-Saucy
Dermott

I would add to that package for Soucy and McCann.

Well done.

 

[showtime8]

Soucy is not a bottom pair D man lol.

He can play either on the 2nd or 3rd pair, depending on how a team constructs their defense.

If the Leafs were to get him, it wouldn't bother me if they put him on a shutdown pair with Muzzin or if they put him with a younger kid like Sandin. Both are decent options. Both scenarios would have Holl out of the line-up.

 

[stickty111]

Forgot about this when the team was in Covid Protocol. With Liljegren the only player in protocol and when he returns in a few days, Leafs have to make a move soon.

 

[SprDaVE]

Forgot about this when the team was in Covid Protocol. With Liljegren the only player in protocol and when he returns in a few days, Leafs have to make a move soon.

Leafs can probably waive and put Ritchie on the taxi squad without much problems. I doubt he gets claimed and if he does, the Leafs will probably be happy anyway. Should be enough to fix their cap I think.

Making a trade right now seems impossible.

 

[LeafChief]

Leafs can probably waive and put Ritchie on the taxi squad without much problems. I doubt he gets claimed and if he does, the Leafs will probably be happy anyway. Should be enough to fix their cap I think.

Making a trade right now seems impossible.

Was going to respond with the exact same thing. Ritchie likely hits waivers. Not the end of the world.

 

[stickty111]

Leafs can probably waive and put Ritchie on the taxi squad without much problems. I doubt he gets claimed and if he does, the Leafs will probably be happy anyway. Should be enough to fix their cap I think.

Making a trade right now seems impossible.

Oh I agree. I'm not saying it has to be a trade. It could be as simple as waiving a Ritchie. Also good is the 5 day new isolation rule does apply to the Leafs since Nylander came off today, which means Liljegren can off on the 3rd.

 

[4thline]

I like the Soucy in Holl out idea, but it's more of a cap/fit move than an upgrade. We'd almost certainly get Soucy @50%, opening up some wiggle room this season and freeing the money for two year extensions to Sandin + Liljegren next, keeping the defense cost neutral. His ability to play both sides while adding a steady physical presence gives a huge amount of versatility.