GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART III

[Martin Skoula]

Yes, the one who was one of the best defensemen in the world by age 26. The 26 year old who played every game for the Olympic Gold medal team at age 24. The one who made it to the Conference Finals (20 games) at age 26 playing nearly 29 minutes per night. Yeah, that one.

So maybe giving your young stars 5 years to struggle through getting out of the first round pays off, huh? Crazy stuff.

 

[zeke]

It's very simplistic to associate offense only with forwards and defense only with defensemen.

Another thought exercise: if magically the Leafs could add a 26yo in-his-prime Alex Pietrangelo at the expense of one of its offensively productive forwards, would the team be better or worse off in terms of playoff success?

i see what you're going for - the mythical stud Norris trophy #1 dman.

I can see the argument for it. But i'm not actually sure many of the dmen famed as that are actually ever that good - and that includes Pietro, who was only able to win a cup after the Blues moved him away from the tough matchups and moved Bo alongside Parayko as their shutdown pairing.

and as for offense from defense, I'm pretty sure Mo is better than Pietro on that end.

 

[TMLAM34]

Would be a small move, but I’d like to see it happen. Saves us around 500k as well.

To Toronto: Carl Grundstrom
To Los Angeles: Pierre Engvall

 

[WTFMAN99]

Would be a small move, but I’d like to see it happen. Saves us around 500k as well.

To Toronto: Carl Grundstrom
To Los Angeles: Pierre Engvall

Is the cap space the primary motivation? Similar age and production. You lose a guy that could slide into centre if an emergency came up.

 

[Kiwi]

Is the cap space the primary motivation? Similar age and production. You lose a guy that could slide into centre if an emergency came up.

Unless Grundstrom has improved exponentially defensively I think Engvall is significantly better in that aspect of the game as well

 

[WTFMAN99]

Unless Grundstrom has improved exponentially defensively I think Engvall is significantly better in that aspect of the game as well

Yes, defensively Engvall is good...at wing especially. I just wish someone would tell Engvall to shoot it more, he has a wicked velocity on his shot and it is heavy.

 

[Gabriel426]

Mayfield: 29yrs, 6'5" 220
Holl: 29yrs, 6'4" 210

Last 3yrs 82gm paces:

Mayfield (148gms): 19:47, 4gls, 18pts, 114ht, 152bk, 50.6xgf% (-0.6rel), 2.30xga/60 (+0.2rel), +3.1dzsdiff
Holl (147gms): 19:46, 2gls, 22pts, 122ht, 117bk, 53.2xgf% (-0.7rel), 2.31xga/60 (+0.2rel), +2.7dzsdiff

With Holl getting the tougher usage as he has played mostly on the top matchup pairing, while Mayfield has had secondary qoc behind the top matchup Pelech-Pulock pairing.

Grass is always greener, it seems.

But how about this year?
How Holl and Mayfield played last season or before hold little to the players they are today.
Jumbo probably got more points than any Leafs and most current players but I won't even put him on the Leafs if he plays for free.

 

[WTFMAN99]

But how about this year?
How Holl and Mayfield played last season or before hold little to the players they are today.
Jumbo probably got more points than any Leafs and most current players but I won't even put him on the Leafs if he plays for free.

I don't mind having Mayfield around to have secondary pairing duties with someone like Rielly.

Muzzin-Brodie would be pretty good together I think.

 

[Kiwi]

Yes, defensively Engvall is good...at wing especially. I just wish someone would tell Engvall to shoot it more, he has a wicked velocity on his shot and it is heavy.

It's surprising he's scoring as much as he is, our 3rd line gets some bloody tough usage

Honestly if that Engvall Kampf Kase line can keep this up I'll happily take what we are getting

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's surprising he's scoring as much as he is, our 3rd line gets some bloody tough usage

Honestly if that Engvall Kampf Kase line can keep this up I'll happily take what we are getting

Kampf-Kase have some real nice chemistry together. I don't know what clicked for Kampf but maybe feeling his coach has confidence in him....he's been able to reach another level. On the Blackhawks he wasn't *this* good.

I am trying to think of what the best version of this team looks like when healthy...I do think that Ritchie is going to be important for us in the playoffs and offensively it was coming for him before he got sick.

I feel like you pick one of Mikhayev or Engvall though and go from there

 

[Kiwi]

Kampf-Kase have some real nice chemistry together. I don't know what clicked for Kampf but maybe feeling his coach has confidence in him....he's been able to reach another level. On the Blackhawks he wasn't *this* good.

I am trying to think of what the best version of this team looks like when healthy...I do think that Ritchie is going to be important for us in the playoffs and offensively it was coming for him before he got sick.

I feel like you pick one of Mikhayev or Engvall though and go from there

It's going to be Mikhayev but he's done nothing to deserve playing instead of Engvall

Meh, Ritchie can do his time on the 4th line, he doesn't deserve anything more either

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's going to be Mikhayev but he's done nothing to deserve playing instead of Engvall

Meh, Ritchie can do his time on the 4th line, he doesn't deserve anything more either

At this time, no, no need to elevate Ritchie, but it was good to see the points come.

Engvall frustrates because at his best, he's a real difference maker but he needs that kick in the ass once in a while. Mikhayev is good defensively...but how much better than Engvall? Engvall at least has potted a few points in the playoffs whereas Mikhayev has been a black hole in our post season games, literally 0 points.

 

[Kiwi]

At this time, no, no need to elevate Ritchie, but it was good to see the points come.

Engvall frustrates because at his best, he's a real difference maker but he needs that kick in the ass once in a while. Mikhayev is good defensively...but how much better than Engvall? Engvall at least has potted a few points in the playoffs whereas Mikhayev has been a black hole in our post season games, literally 0 points.

It probably helps Ritchie playing beside the 2 old guys against weak competition, Spezza and Simmonds will get you points

Had a lot of hope for Mikhayev but that wrist injury really hurt his offensive game, I wouldn't pay him any more than Kampf or Engvall now

I can get limited offense and great defense out of them for practically nothing

 

[LeafSteel]

Really worried that the injuries that Mik has suffered will continue to affect him.

We are sleeping on how significant a thumb injury is for a hockey player, and how much it impacts their shooting. I broke my thumb 3 years ago, and after all the physio, it still won't be 100% again, and I still feel it when I do too much.

First a catastrophic wrist injury, now a thumb injury, and we are hoping for more offense from him? I don't think it's going to happen.......

 

[ToneDog]

Really worried that the injuries that Mik has suffered will continue to affect him.

We are sleeping on how significant a thumb injury is for a hockey player, and how much it impacts their shooting. I broke my thumb 3 years ago, and after all the physio, it still won't be 100% again, and I still feel it when I do too much.

First a catastrophic wrist injury, now a thumb injury, and we are hoping for more offense from him? I don't think it's going to happen.......

He's not getting the big raise he was looking for next year but I bet he plays for that contract. Chances are somebody will offer more money that the Leafs and he walks.

 

[meefer]

I might argue for a number of trades, some here which I like, others not so much, but my hope would be that the team (Dubas) should they determine a need, move quickly. A TDL move, to me, is less likely to be beneficial than a trade made earlier in the season. Be it a F or a D, my hope is that the team makes a move sooner rather than later. I want a group that is committed to each other, be that move working towards a high profile or a lower profile acquisition. A TDL acquisition can be all in, but I think less so compared to a player who has been a part of the process for a longer period of time. In short, if the team is going to make a move, do it sooner rather than later.

 

[Nylanderthal]

He'd go out and sign Nylander.

Don’t think you’d get Nylander for under $7m aav tho

 

[MapleLeafs94]

Really worried that the injuries that Mik has suffered will continue to affect him.

We are sleeping on how significant a thumb injury is for a hockey player, and how much it impacts their shooting. I broke my thumb 3 years ago, and after all the physio, it still won't be 100% again, and I still feel it when I do too much.

First a catastrophic wrist injury, now a thumb injury, and we are hoping for more offense from him? I don't think it's going to happen.......

Well he never had much of a finishing touch to begin with obviously. His incredible speed is what creates an absurd amount of scoring chances for himself and with better puck luck and just by the law of averages you'd expect more to go in. Guy is probably top 10 in the league regarding overall speed, with his willingness to backcheck and decent defensive IQ, he'll be an NHL player for the foreseeable future.

I can see how the hand injuries would effect his stick handling, shooting and overall offensive potential like you say however. Hopefully that's not the case and with the adequate recovery time he was given he gets back to normal with a little more scoring touch.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Grabbing Jakob Chychrun would be very similar to when the Lightning traded for McDonagh. Get that much needed steady 20+ minute defender.

I think Sandin + Robertson + 1st plus cap gets it done. Completely solidifies the defence and gives us a better shot in the playoffs.

 

[Kiwi]

He's not getting the big raise he was looking for next year but I bet he plays for that contract. Chances are somebody will offer more money that the Leafs and he walks.

So be it, he's not the type of player I'd be twisting myself into a pretzel to keep around

Useful but replacable

 

[Stephen]

It's funny because Holl and Mayfield also have similar career paths - both 2nd round picks that didn't become fulltime NHL dmen until their late 20s (Mayfield at 26, Holl at 27). Mayfield was a year/ year and a half ahead but I'd argue that's only because Babcock held back Holl for no good reason even though Holl kicked butt in the AHL for a few years and definitely earned an NHL shot before Babs gave him one. Mayfield was also coming up on a much worse team.

and personally I don't think it's really possible to be a mirage when you're getting extreme top matchup usage for a top team and doing very well in those minutes.

If you look at the Islanders over the past few years, a handful of their darkhorse prospects on defense blossomed into legitimate NHL defensemen (Pelech, Mayfield, Toews). The way the Leafs have given a longer leash for Holl offensively and on the transition from the get go, (with mixed success) I wonder if they're trying to coax out a Devon Toews style progression from him.

 

[MapleLeafs94]

Grabbing Jakob Chychrun would be very similar to when the Lightning traded for McDonagh. Get that much needed steady 20+ minute defender.

I think Sandin + Robertson + 1st plus cap gets it done. Completely solidifies the defence and gives us a better shot in the playoffs.

That package should get it done but I personally wouldn't do that trade however. I don't watch Arizona near enough to make an educated assessment but Sandin should be a cheap top 4 option for the next 3 years atleast, assuming he signs a bridge considering we don't have any other options.

How overrated players like OEL were on the same team makes me hesitant for an objective assessment from people on this site also. If the legends hold true of a top pair defenseman on a bargain contract and this trade happened then I wouldn't be upset I suppose.

Another factor is that he's another leftie. Since Sandin is going the other way I guess it don't mean much, but our top 4 is already chalked full of them and if we're giving that kind package it should only really be for the absolute perfect fit and shooting right should be in consideration and preferable.

 

[ToneDog]

That package should get it done but I personally wouldn't do that trade however. I don't watch Arizona near enough to make an educated assessment but Sandin should be a cheap top 4 option for the next 3 years atleast, assuming he signs a bridge considering we don't have any other options.

How overrated players like OEL were on the same team makes me hesitant for an objective assessment from people on this site also. If the legends hold true of a top pair defenseman on a bargain contract and this trade happened then I wouldn't be upset I suppose.

Another factor is that he's another leftie. Since Sandin is going the other way I guess it don't mean much, but our top 4 is already chalked full of them and if we're giving that kind package it should only really be for the absolute perfect fit and shooting right should be in consideration and preferable.

Add Chychrun and you guarantee that one of Rielly, Muzz and Chychrun is on the ice at all times. Problem is going forward you probably need to move Muzzin/Brodie or one of the big 4 to free up enough cap space to go around.

 

[zeke]

Grabbing Jakob Chychrun would be very similar to when the Lightning traded for McDonagh.

We did that when we grabbed Muzzin.

Did it again when we added Brodie.

After the Bolts got McDonagh, they were happy to let 22yr old Cernak and 21yr old Sergachev step up and be key parts of their cup team - they didn't trade away those 21 and 22yr old dmen.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Muzzin
for
Mid-Late 1st & Prospect

Dermott, Robertson, Niemela, TML 1st & 1st from Trade
for
Chychrun

2nd 2022 & 3rd 2023
for
Ben Chiarot

Rielly - Brodie
Chychrun - Chiarot
Sandin - Liljigren