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GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART III

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Trade board, thread for Mayfield... Islanders fans indicate that they need a LD... so of course, people offer up Dermott. This is a response to Dermott being offered.

You’ve tried to reason with us about the use for your 7th defenseman which it won’t work. Dermott doesn’t fit into the Islanders system being that they have multiple options that both shoot the same way/play a similar style. Adding in another 6/7 LHD is utterly pointless even with the addition of the overhyped prospect. If the Leafs really want Mayfield, they need to offer a fair package in return. If I’m Lou, I’m looking at either Holl
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Oh... so you'd want Holl instead of Dermott? Can we send that paperwork for you to sign now? :laugh:
 
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Fogelhund said:
Trade board, thread for Mayfield... Islanders fans indicate that they need a LD... so of course, people offer up Dermott. This is a response to Dermott being offered.



Oh... so you'd want Holl instead of Dermott? Can we send that paperwork for you to sign now? :laugh:
Click to expand...
Lock it up. Deal is done. Mayfield for Holl.
 
Mayfield: 29yrs, 6'5" 220
Holl: 29yrs, 6'4" 210

Last 3yrs 82gm paces:

Mayfield (148gms): 19:47, 4gls, 18pts, 114ht, 152bk, 50.6xgf% (-0.6rel), 2.30xga/60 (+0.2rel), +3.1dzsdiff
Holl (147gms): 19:46, 2gls, 22pts, 122ht, 117bk, 53.2xgf% (-0.7rel), 2.31xga/60 (+0.2rel), +2.7dzsdiff

With Holl getting the tougher usage as he has played mostly on the top matchup pairing, while Mayfield has had secondary qoc behind the top matchup Pelech-Pulock pairing.

Grass is always greener, it seems.
 
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WTFMAN99 said:
I'm on night shift and tried to do a bare minimum changes to the roster. I expect mostly negative response.

In terms of that second trade, I mostly want a capable 13th forward with very minimal cap hit and a 4th-5th back to recoup picks in the draft so if you have alternate suggestions, I am open to it.


I feel pretty good about Muzzin-Brodie together while Rielly-Mayfield should be more than up for secondary competition. We keep Dermott in the 7th spot in case of injury and if healthy, the forward group has worked until this point and I don't think we have the organizational depth to address top 6 LW but if healthy should be okay.

View attachment 491926

View attachment 491927
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I think the price is off on the Mayfield/Holl trade. Mayfield and Holl play similar minutes and play similar roles and have for a few years now. I feel like Holl is being used in this trade to offset salaries. But, he was protected in the expansion draft over McCann and Kerfoot and holds value. Truthfully, Mayfield is larger and more physical, which helps him to be a little better defensively. But, this is essentially a swap of #4 defenseman on cheap deals.

Robertson is arguably the teams best prospect and they also send a 2nd rd. pick. For the amount they're upgrading that seems extensive.

If the Isles wanted to replace Mayfield with Holl in the trade, they don't get someone like Nick Robertson back as well. And if Mayfield is worth Nick Robertson and Holl is valueless to the Isles. I'd prefer they sell Holl off to the highest bidder and see how much a Justin Holl is worth at the trade deadline. He wouldn't be cheap either. Maybe, they could even snag a Nick Robertson from another team.
 
zeke said:
Mayfield: 29yrs, 6'5" 220
Holl: 29yrs, 6'4" 210

Last 3yrs 82gm paces:

Mayfield (148gms): 19:47, 4gls, 18pts, 114ht, 152bk, 50.6xgf% (-0.6rel), 2.30xga/60 (+0.2rel), +3.1dzsdiff
Holl (147gms): 19:46, 2gls, 22pts, 122ht, 117bk, 53.2xgf% (-0.7rel), 2.31xga/60 (+0.2rel), +2.7dzsdiff

With Holl getting the tougher usage as he has played mostly on the top matchup pairing, while Mayfield has had secondary qoc behind the top matchup Pelech-Pulock pairing.

Grass is always greener, it seems.
Click to expand...

That's great and all... but how do you then handicap that Holl has been pulled up a great deal by Muzzin? vs. Pellech and Leddy, who Mayfield's played with? Would you consider Muzzin to be Pellech and Leddy's equals?
 
Fogelhund said:
That's great and all... but how do you then handicap that Holl has been pulled up a great deal by Muzzin? vs. Pellech and Leddy, who Mayfield's played with? Would you consider Muzzin to be Pellech and Leddy's equals?
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5v5 Partners over those 3 years:

Mayfield: 1. Leddy 831:15, 2. Toews 723:48, 3. Pelech 371:07
Holl: 1. Muzzin 1593:25, 2. Dermott 370:49

Toews and Pelech are pretty darn good. Leddy not too bad either.

I'll give the edge to Holl overall on defense partners but I'm not sure it outweighs the matchup duty.
 
All that being said - Holl is definitely struggling this year and if he doesn't get stabilized then sure Mayfield would be an upgrade on what Holl has been so far this year.
 
zeke said:
Mayfield: 29yrs, 6'5" 220
Holl: 29yrs, 6'4" 210

Last 3yrs 82gm paces:

Mayfield (148gms): 19:47, 4gls, 18pts, 114ht, 152bk, 50.6xgf% (-0.6rel), 2.30xga/60 (+0.2rel), +3.1dzsdiff
Holl (147gms): 19:46, 2gls, 22pts, 122ht, 117bk, 53.2xgf% (-0.7rel), 2.31xga/60 (+0.2rel), +2.7dzsdiff

With Holl getting the tougher usage as he has played mostly on the top matchup pairing, while Mayfield has had secondary qoc behind the top matchup Pelech-Pulock pairing.

Grass is always greener, it seems.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to dump Holl, but this year he has not played well. Is Mayfield a better option, in my opinion yes, regardless of stats based over the last three years, this year is not the Holl we are used to seeing. And, a .550M cap savings cannot be ignored.
 
Fogelhund said:
Trade board, thread for Mayfield... Islanders fans indicate that they need a LD... so of course, people offer up Dermott. This is a response to Dermott being offered.



Oh... so you'd want Holl instead of Dermott? Can we send that paperwork for you to sign now? :laugh:
Click to expand...

I like how Islanders fans pretend Dermott is only a 6/7 when he would easily be the 2nd best LD in their entire system right now, and would play in their top 4 short of acquiring another, better LD.

They would be lucky to get someone like him, especially from us. The only reason why he'd even be available is because we don't have the room to play him like he should be playing. He'd be a top 6 defender on most teams, and would even be top 4 on some teams right now.

He is actually the kind of guy they need right now. Unfortunately, unless they give us their 2nd next year and one of their few somewhat good prospects or another pick, I wouldn't trade Dermott to them.
 
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justashadowof said:
Right answer: he'd acquire/sign a defenseman.
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Over this year and last year, the Leafs rank 6th in goals for per game and 6th in goals against per game.

Subtract Willy, and suddenly their offense ranks a good bit below their defense.
 
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ACC1224 said:
Brodie doesn't get nearly enough love. That guy needs an Appreciation Thread.
I was always a distant fan with limited views but after watching him for the year plus I think he's been fantastic and definitely under the fans radar.
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He's the prototypical unsexy solid defender. So little risk, panic and offensive aggression in his game that it's easy to overlook his steady play. Stanley Cup winners have these guys hiding in plain sight doing heavy lifting behind their stars.
 
zeke said:
All that being said - Holl is definitely struggling this year and if he doesn't get stabilized then sure Mayfield would be an upgrade on what Holl has been so far this year.
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I would agree that Mayfield would be an upgrade as well. My gut is that Holl's play was a mirage... he managed to play above himself for a bit, and now has returned to being what he is. I think Mayfield's base, is what Holl was during that Mirage.

That being said, I'm in no rush to make a trade to upgrade and give up assets anyways. I still think playing Lilly with Muzzin, playing Sandin with Dermott is the direction, along with giving Rubins more time, to see if he's a #7 answer for us. I'd love more physicality in there, but no desperate for it either.
 
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zeke said:
Over this year and last year, the Leafs rank 6th in goals for per game and 6th in goals against per game.

Subtract Willy, and suddenly their offense ranks a good bit below their defense.
Click to expand...

Not trying to subtract Nylander, doing a thought exercise regarding the over commitment of money to forwards. Sometimes I forget to spell out the intention explicitly because I don't want to insult people's intelligence.

How many playoff series wins has this "balanced" offense/defense accomplished in the past 5 seasons?
 
Fogelhund said:
I would agree that Mayfield would be an upgrade as well. My gut is that Holl's play was a mirage... he managed to play above himself for a bit, and now has returned to being what he is. I think Mayfield's base, is what Holl was during that Mirage.

That being said, I'm in no rush to make a trade to upgrade and give up assets anyways. I still think playing Lilly with Muzzin, playing Sandin with Dermott is the direction, along with giving Rubins more time, to see if he's a #7 answer for us. I'd love more physicality in there, but no desperate for it either.
Click to expand...

It's funny because Holl and Mayfield also have similar career paths - both 2nd round picks that didn't become fulltime NHL dmen until their late 20s (Mayfield at 26, Holl at 27). Mayfield was a year/ year and a half ahead but I'd argue that's only because Babcock held back Holl for no good reason even though Holl kicked butt in the AHL for a few years and definitely earned an NHL shot before Babs gave him one. Mayfield was also coming up on a much worse team.

and personally I don't think it's really possible to be a mirage when you're getting extreme top matchup usage for a top team and doing very well in those minutes.
 
justashadowof said:
Not trying to subtract Nylander, doing a thought exercise regarding the over commitment of money to forwards. Sometimes I forget to spell out the intention explicitly because I don't want to insult people's intelligence.

How many playoff series wins has this "balanced" offense/defense accomplished in the past 5 seasons?
Click to expand...

based on the numbers, the lack of playoffs wins has clearly been on the offense, not the defense.

and why do you think too much money is being spent on forwards? The Leafs are spending over $20m on their very good dcorps.
 
zeke said:
based on the numbers, the lack of playoffs wins has clearly been on the offense, not the defense.

and why do you think too much money is being spent on forwards? The Leafs are spending over $20m on their very good dcorps.
Click to expand...

It's very simplistic to associate offense only with forwards and defense only with defensemen.

Another thought exercise: if magically the Leafs could add a 26yo in-his-prime Alex Pietrangelo at the expense of one of its offensively productive forwards, would the team be better or worse off in terms of playoff success?
 
justashadowof said:
It's very simplistic to associate offense only with forwards and defense only with defensemen.

Another thought exercise: if magically the Leafs could add a 26yo in-his-prime Alex Pietrangelo at the expense of one of its offensively productive forwards, would the team be better or worse off in terms of playoff success?
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You mean the guy who had a career high 8 playoff game run to his name at that point?
 
Martin Skoula said:
You mean the guy who had a career high 8 playoff game run to his name at that point?
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Yes, the one who was one of the best defensemen in the world by age 26. The 26 year old who played every game for the Olympic Gold medal team at age 24. The one who made it to the Conference Finals (20 games) at age 26 playing nearly 29 minutes per night. Yeah, that one.
 
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