GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 PART III

[Dreakmur]

Strange statement, from a poster who seemed previously be evidenced based.

Form your opinion first. Gather evidence to support it second.

 

[Griffin76]

How about

Rielly Brodie
Chychrun Manson
Dermott Liljegren
Lyubushkin

 

[zeke]

Strange statement, from a poster who seemed previously be evidenced based.

I mean, him having poor numbers as a bottom pair defenseman on the worst team in the league is...evidence.

 

[Griffin76]

You've watched 6 Arizona games this year? Voluntarily? What are you, some sort of a sicko?

I've watched 15 or 16. If we're playing arm chair GM then we should check out the sellers.

 

[Menzinger]

If the Leafs are going to make a move for a D man it should be for a clear #4 rhd. They have more than enough cheap guys to fill the #5-8 D positions already

 

[Griffin76]

I mean, him having poor numbers as a bottom pair defenseman on the worst team in the league is...evidence.

Sorry zeke. Most of the time I support your stats based posts because you take the time to understand and compile them and I respect that and I'm too lazy to do that. But Lyubushkin has been excellent on a horrible team. And he has played quite a bit with Chychrun and Gostisbehere. He's not just a bottom pair guy. And even if that's all he'd be here it's still an upgrade on Holl.

 

[LeafChief]

Galchenyuk really played himself when he chose to pass on the Leafs, hoping for a better offer.

Currently playing 4th line minutes on Arizona. Started the year on the IR. 2 points in 12 games. Not that he was a world beater but he looked decent with the Leafs and probably would have prevented us from signing Ritchie. His AAV would have been low to the point that it would have likely been fully buriable.

What can you do. Hindsight is 20/20.

Travis Boyd is having a nice year with the Yotes. 10 points in 20 games. Happy to see him still playing. Looked like a nice player in his stint with the Leafs.

 

[Dreakmur]

If the Leafs are going to make a move for a D man it should be for a clear #4 rhd. They have more than enough cheap guys to fill the #5-8 D positions already

They could really use some crease clearing muscle too. Not exactly sure where to find that…

 

[pspot]

Severson and McLeod or Mayfield and Clutterbuck would be my targets

 

[zeke]

Sorry zeke. Most of the time I support your stats based posts because you take the time to understand and compile them and I respect that and I'm too lazy to do that. But Lyubushkin has been excellent on a horrible team. And he has played quite a bit with Chychrun and Gostisbehere. He's not just a bottom pair guy. And even if that's all he'd be here it's still an upgrade on Holl.

Well maybe for some reason there's a whole bunch of leafs fans that regularly watch the coyotes and closely observe the play of their bottom pair dmen .

It's possible.

 

[SprDaVE]

If the Leafs are going to make a move for a D man it should be for a clear #4 rhd. They have more than enough cheap guys to fill the #5-8 D positions already

I'd argue that the Leafs don't really need a defenseman at all. Liljegren deserves a long-term shot at the #4 slot and he's been fine in that position so far. He has to keep playing it and he should get better. Sandin is clearly a top 4 defenseman but playing on the bottom pairing because of the LD depth.

I am fine with moving Holl, or Dermott, to save cap space. I don't think the Leafs need to go out and spend a lot of assets on another defenseman to replace them per say. Acquiring a defenseman just pushes Liljegren and Sandin down the depth chart ... we need to stop burying our players and let them grow.

 

[zeke]

I'd argue that the Leafs don't really need a defenseman at all. Liljegren deserves a long-term shot at the #4 slot and he's been fine in that position so far> He has to keep playing it and he should get better. Sandin is clearly a top 4 defenseman but technically playing on the bottom pairing because of the LD depth.

I am fine with moving Holl, or Dermott, to save cap space. I don't think the Leafs need to go out and spend a lot of assets on another defenseman.

It's interesting. Because I'd also say that the play of all of Bunting Kase kerfoot Spezza simmonds offensively and the solid defensive play of the bottom 6 in general makes me not too hurried to add a forward, either.

The more the underlying numbers stabilize, though, the only one part of the team that seems less than elite (but still above average to good) is the team's even strength defense.

And I would guess that the majority of the blame for that falls on the poor play of our erstwhile shutdown pairing Muzz-Holl.

So as of right now, gun pressed to my head to choose one thing to upgrade, I'd probably look at a top 4 dman type.

But as Menzinger said, that would have to be a clearcut top-4 guy - which really means a top 3 type - a guy who you could trust even as a secondary guy on the top pair or a primary guy on a 2nd pair. Anything less than that and it's not an upgrade worth making imo.

And like you said - Lilly deserves a shot and has decent chance of being that guy and we have the time and opportunity to give him a real shot. Not to mention Holl might be able to regroup on the bottom pair and earn himself another shot again. Either way, we have time to see how it plays out and see what we really need come deadline time.

 

[SprDaVE]

It's interesting. Because I'd also say that the play of all of Bunting Kase kerfoot Spezza simmonds offensively and the solid defensive play of the bottom 6 in general makes me not too hurried to add a forward, either.

The more the underlying numbers stabilize, though, the only one part of the team that seems less than elite (but still above average to good) is the team's even strength defense.

And I would guess that the majority of the blame for that falls on the poor play of our erstwhile shutdown pairing Muzz-Holl.

So as of right now, gun pressed to my head to choose one thing to upgrade, I'd probably look at a top 4 dman type.

But as Menzinger said, that would have to be a clearcut top-4 guy - which really means a top 3 type - a guy who you could trust even as a secondary guy on the top pair or a primary guy on a 2nd pair. Anything less than that and it's not an upgrade worth making imo.

And like you said - Lilly deserves a shot and has decent chance of being that guy and we have the time and opportunity to give him a real shot. Not to mention Holl might be able to regroup on the bottom pair and earn himself another shot again. Either way, we have time to see how it plays out and see what we really need come deadline time.

I think part of it is that there aren't many defenseman up for grabs that make me think they would make much of a difference over what we have. They are either far to expensive cap hit wise or asset wise. Liljegren appears to be capable and fits exactly what they need in that spot, someone that can move the puck in different ways.

I still believe the Leafs are in a bigger need to get a really good LW producer. I like Bunting and Kerfoot a lot, but I think getting that extra scoring threat would be a whole lot better than another defenseman, and they are typically easier to find/acquire. Mikheyev healthy and producing might be enough to change my mind.

 

[4thline]

If the Leafs are going to make a move for a D man it should be for a clear #4 rhd. They have more than enough cheap guys to fill the #5-8 D positions already

Honestly, if we had the cap space to ice a full healthy roster I don't think that there would be much to talk about in this thread. The team is deep, doesn't really have any holes, or any bloat.

I think the one move to look at is Holl out/ cheaper 5-6RHD in if Liljegren replaces him full time moving forward.

 

[Griffin76]

Well maybe for some reason there's a whole bunch of leafs fans that regularly watch the coyotes and closely observe the play of their bottom pair dmen .

It's possible.

It is. I've watched quite a few games this year. 15 or 16 probably. I watch them for a variety of reasons too. I know that he plays with Chychrun and Gostisbehere so he can't really be a bottom pairing guy even though he's probably 5th in ice time per game. And he does a really good job.

 

[LeafChief]

It is. I've watched quite a few games this year. 15 or 16 probably. I watch them for a variety of reasons too. I know that he plays with Chychrun and Gostisbehere so he can't really be a bottom pairing guy even though he's probably 5th in ice time per game. And he does a really good job.

Anyone else from the Yotes that may be worth considering? How has Kessel looked?

 

[Griffin76]

Honestly, if we had the cap space to ice a full healthy roster I don't think that there would be much to talk about in this thread. The team is deep, doesn't really have any holes, or any bloat.

I think the one move to look at is Holl out/ cheaper 5-6RHD in if Liljegren replaces him full time moving forward.

I agree completely. That's why I suggested Lyubushkin. I think he's better than Holl. He's a little cheaper so 4-7 would all make 1.5 or less.

No reason that they couldn't rotate Dermott, Liljegren, Sandin and Lyubushkin as well as giving the top 3 a night off once in a while. Muzzin definitely needs it.

Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin Dermott

Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin Lyubushkin

Muzzin Dermott
Sandin Lyubushkin

Dermott Liljegren
Sandin Lyubushkin

They all get a decent amount of games. They all stay ready. They all stay fresh for playoff time. I don't see Holl rebounding here. He needs a fresh start somewhere else.

 

[zeke]

I think part of it is that there aren't many defenseman up for grabs that make me think they would make much of a difference over what we have. They are either far to expensive cap hit wise or asset wise. Liljegren appears to be capable and fits exactly what they need in that spot, someone that can move the puck in different ways.

I still believe the Leafs are in a bigger need to get a really good LW producer. I like Bunting and Kerfoot a lot, but I think getting that extra scoring threat would be a whole lot better than another defenseman. Mikheyev healthy and producing might be enough to change my mind.

I know on paper it seems like another LW is a need but really the Leafs seem to have an elite offense regardless. And the RW/LW thing just confuses things - willy and Mitch can play LW just as well.

But yeah another top forward could only help.

I'm on the fence. I'm probably good with adding either an F or D, as long as it's a legit top-3 D or top-5 F type, not a borderline top4/top6 guy.

 

[zeke]

It is. I've watched quite a few games this year. 15 or 16 probably. I watch them for a variety of reasons too. I know that he plays with Chychrun and Gostisbehere so he can't really be a bottom pairing guy even though he's probably 5th in ice time per game. And he does a really good job.

I'm duly impressed. Thank you for your sacrifice!

 

[Griffin76]

Anyone else from the Yotes that may be worth considering? How has Kessel looked?

Kessel looks ok. Nowhere near where he was when he was on the Leafs. I've always been a fan of his and it's one of the reasons I've been watching them. Would like to have him back, I just dont know where he gets put or how they could afford him.

Crouse I believe would be an upgrade on anybody in the LW spot except Bunting or maybe Mikheyev if he can return to his rookie year form.

Dzingel was looking really good for a stretch but I dont think he'd be an upgrade on anybody currently on the team.

Hayton is interesting but not sure if he'd be someone they'd be looking to move. I'm guessing they would want more of his type instead of less. If it was a buy low situation yes, but I can't see it.

And to beat a dead horse Lyubushkin because Holl just needs to be moved and he'd be a better and cheaper player.

 

[Griffin76]

I'm duly impressed. Thank you for your sacrifice!

You do the stats and I'll do the video.

 

[LeafChief]

Kessel looks ok. Nowhere near where he was when he was on the Leafs. I've always been a fan of his and it's one of the reasons I've been watching them. Would like to have him back, I just dont know where he gets put or how they could afford him.

Crouse I believe would be an upgrade on anybody in the LW spot except Bunting or maybe Mikheyev if he can return to his rookie year form.

Dzingel was looking really good for a stretch but I dont think he'd be an upgrade on anybody currently on the team.

Hayton is interesting but not sure if he'd be someone they'd be looking to move. I'm guessing they would want more of his type instead of less. If it was a buy low situation yes, but I can't see it.

And to beat a dead horse Lyubushkin because Holl just needs to be moved and he'd be a better and cheaper player.

Thanks!

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Jmo89]

Galchenyuk really played himself when he chose to pass on the Leafs, hoping for a better offer.

Currently playing 4th line minutes on Arizona. Started the year on the IR. 2 points in 12 games. Not that he was a world beater but he looked decent with the Leafs and probably would have prevented us from signing Ritchie. His AAV would have been low to the point that it would have likely been fully buriable.

What can you do. Hindsight is 20/20.

Travis Boyd is having a nice year with the Yotes. 10 points in 20 games. Happy to see him still playing. Looked like a nice player in his stint with the Leafs.

What was the rumor there? I thought the Leafs didn't offer him a contract. If he turned one down that just silly considering he found more success here than anywhere else since Montreal.

 

[LeafChief]

What was the rumor there? I thought the Leafs didn't offer him a contract. If he turned one down that just silly considering he found more success here than anywhere else since Montreal.

I was listening to Mirtle and Siegel's podcast and they pretty much said that the Leafs offered him a contract early on but he wanted to test the market and the Leafs moved on.

They could be wrong of course but that's what they said.