Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk - 2022-23 Edition - Postseason Success can't be a Myth!
- Thread starter TaLoN
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Just imagine MN could have ROR, Kane, and Toews "on" the team all in the same season.
I'm fine with the retention to get picks, but each team only gets 3 salary retention spots. ROR used up one of those. Another one has to be held until they figure out what to do with Dumba. I would have liked to have waited until the TDL to use those spots. A 4th round pick (maybe higher, maybe sooner) will still be on the table then from somewhere.
He just throws away players instead. MN should have been buyers the last couple of season, not selling off their NHL players.
Disagree. They are doing a mini rebuild and he will live and die by how these nearing NHL ready prospects do
There was a ready built team to contend (just missing and a goalie), with the best player to ever wear a Wild sweater, when he took over.
But the locker room
. I'll take a good team with a bad locker room over a great locker room with no talent.
They still didn’t have a 1C, so how built to contend were they?There was a ready built team to contend (just missing and a goalie), with the best player to ever wear a Wild sweater, when he took over.
But the locker room
They had Staal; who sadly is still better than any center on the team not named JEE. But who needs a 20g/60p center that was over a PPG in the Playoffs the previous season? Staal wasn't old and slow until Russo said it. Then the opinions on the boards shifted.
The also had plenty of things to trade for an upgrade at center. There have been plenty of them on the market. Trade Spurgeon as a rental instead of re-signing him and there is most of the cap and trade capital to use to trade for a center.
The only downside is MN probably doesn't have Wallstedt in it's system.
They traded for the reigning Vezina winner, but it didn't work out, so Guerin is an idiot. Then he traded Talbot for Gustavsson, who's been amazing, but BG is an idiot so it was just dumb luck and he doesn't get any credit for that.There was a ready built team to contend (just missing and a goalie), with the best player to ever wear a Wild sweater, when he took over.
But the locker room
GMBG traded away Dub (for a positive) and signed Talbot. Stalock (meh) was the backup until COVID got him before the season. Kahk ended up in the NHL a year too early.
MAF would have been an unneeded trade if the Suter buyout didn't happen. Kahk wouldn't have had to be traded for someone (Middleton) to play with Spurgeon.
Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
- Jun 7, 2010
- 8,884
- 3,092
Staal was absolutely horseshit after being traded. This is a horrible example. He had 10 points in 32 games, and was a whopping -20.
But please tell us how he would have led us to the cup
Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
- Jun 7, 2010
- 8,884
- 3,092
Agreed. I wouldn't expect them to return the same value though. Zuccarello being the exception, though his contract going through next year might hinder TDL value.
You cannot be serious.... If Staal is your idea of a contender's 1C, then I'm not sure we will ever agree on anything...
Eric Staal? The guy who has 32 points in his last 101 games?
Of course, this all lines up if you're someone who thinks shit of any prospect that isn't basically a surefire franchise player. In which case I would ask, why are you on a site called Hockey's Future
I'll take my chances that our prospect pool can propel us forward in the near future. A lot of our woes are coming from depth positions not scoring. We don't need a lot of our prospects to hit "franchise" status. We just need long term upgrades in the middle 6 for guys like Hartman, Foligno, Greenway, and Gaudreau.
Long term:
Kap-XXXX-Boldy
XXXX-Eriksson Ek-XXXX
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX
I have zero doubts that a lot of the XXXX's in this group can be improved with a little bit of time and development from our prospect pool. Probably have one of Khusnutdinov/Rossi at 1C, Ohgren and Yurov as the wings on the 2nd line, some combination of Beckman/Walker/Khusnutdinov/Rossi/Haight/FA/etc. I think these are "reasonable" spots to project for most of these prospects. 1C is a shot in the dark. I think that Khusnutdinov is the guy there because he's Russian (Kap can mentor) and I only hear great things about him.
Keep in mind, it shouldn't be too hard to upgrade guys like Greenway, Foligno, Gaudreau, etc internally with a little bit of time. There will also be plenty of opportunity to upgrade on positions where prospects falter.
XXXX-Spurgeon
Brodin-XXXX
XXXX-XXXX
1LD next to Spurgeon is concerning. I doubt Lambos can be that guy, but maybe he can be 2LD and Brodin slides up? Then you can put Faber next to Lambos on the 2nd pair, one of ROR/Hunt/Peart next to Spacek/Masters/FA
Goaltending is not even close to a concern long term. Franchise goalie in Wallstedt and a pretty darn good goalie in Gus Bus.
If we are out of contention next year, I suspect Zucc might be traded to a contender and then re-signed in the offseason.
Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
- Jun 7, 2010
- 8,884
- 3,092
I honestly believe Gus could be a franchise goalie. Having both Wallstedt and Gus "in the pipelines" is a luxury.
I put Gus as in the pipeline, so to speak, because he is only 24 years old. This is fairly young for goalies but definitely close to the age where he should be rounding out what he is to become as a goalie going forward.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Only $3 million base salary next year. By the trade deadline, you're probably looking at retaining 50% costing you $300k (very unofficial math).
Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
- Jun 7, 2010
- 8,884
- 3,092
Right. I'm just saying that teams might not want to, or be able to, take on that salary. This could limit the suitors thus us not getting prime value for him. That's all I'm trying to say.
I said for two years on this site that it was absolute mismanagement by this front office to piss away two of the best teams they will likely ever have with this franchise. They did nothing to make an add where it was painfully obvious they needed one, up the middle. In sports, you better recognize your roster and your window, they missed it and will now be irrelevant for 3yrs+. Better than fair chance that Guerin will not be the GM of the team the next time this team can approach the levels those two teams were at.
Most of the guys you are slotting into the XXXX's are 2-3 years out at least with the exception of perhaps Rossi/Beckman.
Its obvious that building through the draft is the key to a contender....but building through the draft with 1st rounders in the late teens and early 20's for your entire existence wont cut it....it requires a good amount of luck to snag a game breaker down there.
Thats the frustration - mediocrity for 20 years without a GM with the balls to make the move that is required because he is scared to miss. Instead our big moves are to sign above average grinders like Parise and the 2nd best defenseman in Nashville to contracts they didn't deserve.
And in true Minnesota sports fan fashion - we just accept mediocrity and keep buying tickets and watching the games...because its cold out and nobody has anything better to do.
They may already know what's going to happen with Dumba, but it might be something the teams are waiting to execute until closer to the deadline. They may even know that with 50% retained there's still no interest in Dumba. We've all seen what happens when he's not with Brodin, and it's not like he brings meaningful offense anymore either. This trade may have been made knowing it leaves them with effectively only 1 more retention slot or that they probably won't end up trading Dumba at all.Just imagine MN could have ROR, Kane, and Toews "on" the team all in the same season.
I'm fine with the retention to get picks, but each team only gets 3 salary retention spots. ROR used up one of those. Another one has to be held until they figure out what to do with Dumba. I would have liked to have waited until the TDL to use those spots. A 4th round pick (maybe higher, maybe sooner) will still be on the table then from somewhere.
It's nice to think they could be 3rd party to other bigger trades, but I count 11 teams with the cap space to be 3rd party on a kane/toews trade that are either eliminated or on the bubble with enough space to not be concerned about it. This may be one of their only chances to use the cap space to retain. It's not like every trade is going to require a 3rd team to retain. ROR had the 3rd highest cap hit of the pending UFAs. There's still always the possibility of taking a bad expiring contract and that would be a bigger return.
Yes I'd have taken my chances with Staal for another year (as opposed to MarJo on the roster and Rask as the 1C), and then upgraded to position when I had the chance with the assets the team had when BG took over or in free agency. Kunin, Zucker, Spurgeon, Greenway, Donato, Sturm, Soucy, Brodin, Dumba Foligno, Hartman, draft picks, etc. I also would have taken Lundell instead of Rossi. There is your longterm middle-6 center.
I don't care about a #1 prospect pool. With Boldy, JEE, Fiala, Kap, and Zucc and add in any top-6 quality center (Danault as a UFA was my main) they can compete with any team in the West. Parise, draft Lundell, the guys from the system ( Dewar, Duhaime, and Shaw) fill out 5/6 or the bottom-6. That leaves Donato, Foligno, Greenway, Hartman, Kunin, Zucker, etc. as either trade bait, walking or bumping the system guys to callup status. This is just the FWDs.
Re-signing Spurgeon instead of trading him (he had a 10 team NTC at the time) around the same time they traded Zucker in the last pre-Kap era (19-20) season was a huge mistake. That cost MN a 1st+ and a huge cap hit long term. This should have been a quick 2 season retool with MN right in the middle of a contention window. Instead we're in the middle of a slog that won't end for another 2 seasons, and then we hope that Kap re-signs.
Knies has 2 years of college left?
TOR doesn't have much left in the cupboards to trade. A 5th and a 6th this year, 1st and a 4th next year, and 1st (I'd be interested in this pick) and a 3rd in 2025.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Would be nice if our part in the StL/Toronto trade was doing them a solid in front of sending Dumba to Toronto at 50% retained for their 2024 1st.
Dumba 50% retained = $3M
Toronto cap space = $3.6M
Coincidence?
They're the only team that I'm holding out hope for getting a first for Dumba from. Everybody else, I can see a 2nd+ being the best that's offered.
Dumba 50% retained = $3M
Toronto cap space = $3.6M
Coincidence?
They're the only team that I'm holding out hope for getting a first for Dumba from. Everybody else, I can see a 2nd+ being the best that's offered.
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