Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk - 2022-23 Edition - Postseason Success can't be a Myth!

[57special]

I don’t need a ton of production form my d-men for the most part. Unless they’re going to be a PP1 guy, I want a good defensive guy, with some grit if possible, but a guy where the play doesn’t die when the puck hits their stick. They at least have to be able to think enough to move the puck up the ice and not kill things like 2 on 1.s. A guy like Middleton would be awesome if he had any skill or offensive instinct.

Agreed, 100%. The ability to move the puck out of the Dzone in a controlled manner really helps the offense, even though it might not show up on the scoresheet. If a Dman has the ability to either skate the puck out, or make a good pass out, or the smarts to know when to chip it out, you’ve got something. Merrill and Middleton don’t have the skill or wheels to move the puck out, so they chip it, giving possession to the other team more often than not. Goligoski has the skill, but his wheels are gone. All three of them have trouble getting back in time to even gain possession of the puck. Dumba has the wheels, and some skill, but lacks the smarts to know when to use them, and when to chip it out.

Addison is good with the puck in the offensive zone, but needs to get better in the D zone. Seems to lack confidence, but is also hurt by playing with Merrill. Would like to see how he does playing with Brodin. I don’t think that he will ever be better than average as a defensive Dman, but if he can even achieve that it will be a big win. Right now he is below average…not awful as some on here think, but definitely not good. In the future, I can easily see ROR or Hunt pairing with him.

I am hopeful about those two in the future because they can both skate reasonably well, have some puck skill, and a decent size frames to grow into. Also don’t see any evidence of bad hockey IQ. I actually would like Army to encourage them to take more chances, so they can stretch their games a little bit. He gives them zero PPTOI….guys like Hicketts, and even Mermis, play way riskier games.

 

[BagHead]

ROR’s shot is probably better than Hunt’s, but they have 7 points in 40 odd games in the AHL. Hardly offensive.
Faber isn’t on the PP in college, and you expect him to be an offensive Dman in the NHL? Lambos didn’t make his WJC team, and Masters is having an outlier season on a loaded team. Both CHL’ers, so expecting them to carry any trait forward even into the AHL IS being overly optimistic - just look at Hunt’s and ROR’s stats in junior. Fun fact, those two were born a day apart.

The best young offensive Dman we have is Addison, but everyone around here wants to trade him because he isn’t a defensive Dman…

On the topic of Addison... you're right that he's offensively gifted so it seems silly to want him gone when offensive production is what we're short of in the pipeline. Consider this though: he's a PP specialist long-term unless he improves defensively and/or at 5v5 and that's of only so much value. As a comparison consider Cam Barker, who was also a 22 year old PP specialist that put up 40 points. Once removed from the #1 PP unit, his production stopped cold. It wouldn't be surprising if the same thing happened with Addison.

Stepping away from the devils advocate role for a moment, my own personal take is that if someone offers us a new Leddy for Addison, I'd take it, but I wouldn't be actively shopping Addison, just in case he's more than a Cam Barker. If anyone here actually wants Addison gone, it's probably because they see a Cam Barker at his peak and are worried that's the direction he'll go.

 

[57special]

I am hoping that Minnesota trades Zuccs soon.

For me, only if they get a haul. Close to a Fiala return. He has produced more than Fiala, and is signed for another year, at a reasonable rate, considering his production. I would want something like Knies and a first, or a guy like Wright, if Seattle decides to go for it this year. There is a semi- big Norwegian population in Seattle, I think.

Zucc has been great after that rocky first year. He should not be given away, doing to Kap what we did to Fiala, and now to Boldy. Knowing Dean, he still wouldn’t play Boldy with Kap, to “spread out the scoring”.

 

[keppel146]

I am hoping that Minnesota trades Zuccs soon.

If you trade him then you might as well start the rebuild. I feel like it’s a snowball effect with Zucc. Might as well trade KK then.

 

[57special]

On the topic of Addison... you're right that he's offensively gifted so it seems silly to want him gone when offensive production is what we're short of in the pipeline. Consider this though: he's a PP specialist long-term unless he improves defensively and/or at 5v5 and that's of only so much value. As a comparison consider Cam Barker, who was also a 22 year old PP specialist that put up 40 points. Once removed from the #1 PP unit, his production stopped cold. It wouldn't be surprising if the same thing happened with Addison.

Stepping away from the devils advocate role for a moment, my own personal take is that if someone offers us a new Leddy for Addison, I'd take it, but I wouldn't be actively shopping Addison, just in case he's more than a Cam Barker. If anyone here actually wants Addison gone, it's probably because they see a Cam Barker at his peak and are worried that's the direction he'll go.

Hey, if we get something really good for Addison, he is by no means untouchable… as a matter of fact, he’d be very touchable. That something would be a very, very good C prospect, or young player, though. Don’t offer me Turcotte, or the 2023 22nd oa, or even a 2023 1st in the mid teens.
He’s a 22 yo leading all rookie Dmen in points, with a specific, desirable skillset. That’s worth something.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I don’t disagree that Merrill is not a good NHL Dman, but he’s a veteran making 1.2M, or something like that. You don’t get good Dmen for that money.
ROR and Hunt hopefully will be better than Merrill sometime in the future, but right now, they are scoring less in the AHL than Merrill is in the NHL. I don’t know where you get your opinion that somehow they would be better than Merrill in the NHL right now. As for Lambos….really? As I said, he was cut from the WJC team….you want bring him into the NHL?

Trade Greenway, Hartman, possibly Gaudreau and Foligno, Reaves. Move Dumba, and Goligoski, if possible. Fleury, too. Bring up Walker, Rossi, maybe Beckman (not a big fan). Mermis, Sustr, too. Give ROR and Hunt a taste of the NHL …maybe SJo, who has been competent, if not promising in the AHL. Give Wallstedt a few NHL games, even if it’s mostly sitting on the bench, McIntyre can backup also.
This season is done. Hope BG realizes it, and acts accordingly, because the next two years are going to be even worse. It’s entirely possible….look at how poorly LAK’S vaunted prospect pool has performed. Byfield is a ghost, Turcotte is worse, Kupari meh, Clarke couldn’t get on the WJC team. Vilardi is the only guy who is looking good, and it took him 6 years…he is the same age as Sammy Walker, who played all 4 years in college.

Merrill isn’t bad for his money. He’s just not good either. It’s not even about points. His shot is just a non factor and teams know it. They know it for Middleton too. And Brodin. And Dumba. Maybe to a lesser extent Addison as well. Their forwards can put more pressure on our forwards down low because our defenders are just not threatening in any sort of capacity.

This team used to have two 50 point dmen (Suter, Dumba), a 40 point dman(Spurgeon), and a 20 point dman (Brodin). Hell, Scandella’s career high with us was 23 points but he was defensively sound and his shot at least made the defense think twice about giving him space.

Hey, if we get something really good for Addison, he is by no means untouchable… as a matter of fact, he’d be very touchable. That something would be a very, very good C prospect, or young player, though. Don’t offer me Turcotte, or the 2023 22nd oa, or even a 2023 1st in the mid teens.
He’s a 22 yo leading all rookie Dmen in points, with a specific, desirable skillset. That’s worth something.

I would take a mid 2023 1st for Addison in a heartbeat.

 

[MNRube]

I’m 100% on the trade Addison train. He’s just not a good fit behind Spurgeon and is totally ineffective 5v5. I imagine the playoffs are going to be an issue for him as well. Let someone else pay him for that PP production.

 

[AKL]

Hartman could be the sneaky guy to be traded at the deadline, I think. His salary would be very enticing as a two year rental. Could be along the lines of a Brandon Hagel deal considering he isn't far removed from a 65 point season. Could get a 1st+ from the right GM, maybe.

 

[keppel146]

Hartman could be the sneaky guy to be traded at the deadline, I think. His salary would be very enticing as a two year rental. Could be along the lines of a Brandon Hagel deal considering he isn't far removed from a 65 point season. Could get a 1st+ from the right GM, maybe.

Similar to Nick Paul trade? Meh prospect and a mid round pick?

 

[AKL]

Similar to Nick Paul trade? Meh prospect and a mid round pick?

Nick Paul wasn't a 2 year rental, he was a pending UFA.

 

[keppel146]

Nick Paul wasn't a 2 year rental, he was a pending UFA.

I forgot Hartman had a year left. Yeah he’d be a good candidate for a playoff team.

 

[BagHead]

Hey, if we get something really good for Addison, he is by no means untouchable… as a matter of fact, he’d be very touchable. That something would be a very, very good C prospect, or young player, though. Don’t offer me Turcotte, or the 2023 22nd oa, or even a 2023 1st in the mid teens.
He’s a 22 yo leading all rookie Dmen in points, with a specific, desirable skillset. That’s worth something.

Hmm...

 

[tyratoku]

This season seems to me like proof that the GREEF line is nothing more than a memory. Trade Greenway + one of our D prospects for Boeser, then trade Foligno separately - putting Ek with Boldy and Boeser would be a great second line and something that Ek deserves with how he had been playing.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

This season seems to me like proof that the GREEF line is nothing more than a memory. Trade Greenway + one of our D prospects for Boeser, then trade Foligno separately - putting Ek with Boldy and Boeser would be a great second line and something that Ek deserves with how he had been playing.

Going to have to pay more than that to retain on Boeser.

 

[57special]

Merrill isn’t bad for his money. He’s just not good either. It’s not even about points. His shot is just a non factor and teams know it. They know it for Middleton too. And Brodin. And Dumba. Maybe to a lesser extent Addison as well. Their forwards can put more pressure on our forwards down low because our defenders are just not threatening in any sort of capacity.

This team used to have two 50 point dmen (Suter, Dumba), a 40 point dman(Spurgeon), and a 20 point dman (Brodin). Hell, Scandella’s career high with us was 23 points but he was defensively sound and his shot at least made the defense think twice about giving him space.


I would take a mid 2023 1st for Addison in a heartbeat.

I think you overestimate the value of a mid teens first... that wouldn't get you a lottery ticket for Bedard, or even Michkov, with the new rules. Guys like Kunin are typical mid teens picks, and they take years to develop. This draft is strong in forwards, but there will be a run on the talented ones early, as the D pool is really weak. By the mid teens...meh. With luck, you get a JEE or Tuch in 5 -6 years, but typically, a lot worse. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Dumba hit 50 points once, and he was a defensive trainwreck. I wouldn't call him a 50 point dman, but i do take your point. We had a damn good D back in the day, but a punchless, inconsistent forward group.

 

[Soldier13Fox]

This season seems to me like proof that the GREEF line is nothing more than a memory. Trade Greenway + one of our D prospects for Boeser, then trade Foligno separately - putting Ek with Boldy and Boeser would be a great second line and something that Ek deserves with how he had been playing.

Yes please.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Going to have to pay more than that to retain on Boeser.

Foligno and Greenway out, might not need any retention on Boeser.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I think you overestimate the value of a mid teens first... that wouldn't get you a lottery ticket for Bedard, or even Michkov, with the new rules. Guys like Kunin are typical mid teens picks, and they take years to develop. This draft is strong in forwards, but there will be a run on the talented ones early, as the D pool is really weak. By the mid teens...meh. With luck, you get a JEE or Tuch in 5 -6 years, but typically, a lot worse. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Dumba hit 50 points once, and he was a defensive trainwreck. I wouldn't call him a 50 point dman, but i do take your point. We had a damn good D back in the day, but a punchless, inconsistent forward group.

This draft is different than other drafts. There are plenty of quality players in the middle of the 1st and if someone was willing to swap them for Addison as the round is happening, I definitely consider that.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think you overestimate the value of a mid teens first... that wouldn't get you a lottery ticket for Bedard, or even Michkov, with the new rules. Guys like Kunin are typical mid teens picks, and they take years to develop. This draft is strong in forwards, but there will be a run on the talented ones early, as the D pool is really weak. By the mid teens...meh. With luck, you get a JEE or Tuch in 5 -6 years, but typically, a lot worse. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Dumba hit 50 points once, and he was a defensive trainwreck. I wouldn't call him a 50 point dman, but i do take your point. We had a damn good D back in the day, but a punchless, inconsistent forward group.

No, with luck you get Barzal, Connor, Larkin, McAvoy with a mid-teens 1st.

 

[thestonedkoala]

If you trade him then you might as well start the rebuild. I feel like it’s a snowball effect with Zucc. Might as well trade KK then.

I mean if you trade Foligno, Hartman, Greenway, you're pretty saying it's going to be a rebuild. More so moving Zuccs frees up another 6 million and can give Minnesota some wiggle room to actually sign a younger free agent.

 

[TaLoN]

This season seems to me like proof that the GREEF line is nothing more than a memory.

That's why it is now the...

Line

 

[63firebird]

For me, only if they get a haul. Close to a Fiala return. He has produced more than Fiala, and is signed for another year, at a reasonable rate, considering his production. I would want something like Knies and a first, or a guy like Wright, if Seattle decides to go for it this year. There is a semi- big Norwegian population in Seattle, I think.

Zucc has been great after that rocky first year. He should not be given away, doing to Kap what we did to Fiala, and now to Boldy. Knowing Dean, he still wouldn’t play Boldy with Kap, to “spread out the scoring”.

What scoring? Lol. The 5v5 nowhere. One ppg per game? May as well try Boldy with cap and zucc. Not much to lose. Call up some young guys with speed. Greenway and Foligno are too slow to apply the body so you may as well let some fast kids develop. The worst feeling is the sense I get that everyone from coaches to stars realize this ship is sinking. No energy at home even!
If it was bad luck sure but the high danger scoring chances aren’t there, Brodin is the only defence man that can move the puck out of the zone with out just chipping it out only to have forwards chase the play. Fluery is wondering where all the offence went. Fiala/Boldy provided secondary threat. Now Kap is hopelessly trying/giving away puck now.

 

[57special]

This draft is different than other drafts. There are plenty of quality players in the middle of the 1st and if someone was willing to swap them for Addison as the round is happening, I definitely consider that.

that's not what I am hearing, and again, because of the lack of high end D prospects, everyone will be picking forwards early on, causing them to be snapped up far earlier than normal.there are no Drysdale's, Nemec's, Jiricek's Byram's, Power's, Sanderson's, Clarke's, etc.

It is an above average year for forwards, way below for Dmen, and no goalies will likely be picked in the teens. I would probably trade Addison for the 12th pick, maybe up to #14. At that point you would be getting a skilled forward prospect with a flaw. Wood(speed), or one of the smaller players(5'9") who projects to be a wing. 12th...yeah, I'd role the dice, I think. Danielsson(talent?), Sale(lw), Cristall(size?), Wood(skating)

 

[57special]

I mean if you trade Foligno, Hartman, Greenway, you're pretty saying it's going to be a rebuild. More so moving Zuccs frees up another 6 million and can give Minnesota some wiggle room to actually sign a younger free agent.

I don't know if i agree. Greenway and Hartman have been actively hurting the team, IMO, and could be replaced by just about anyone and not be missed. Foligno has been a tad better, but again, I would bet that his 3.1 M dollar salary could be spent better elsewhere. Or keep him, give Reaves away, and Foligno becomes head goon again.

To sum up, getting rid of Greenway and Hartman might actually help the team now, not tear it down. Let's do it... it's Feb! More than enough time has passed. Hartman has reverted to the guy who kept getting traded because he did dumbass stuff. Greenway has regressed, and looks to be a guy who is lazy and doesn't work on improving his game. Sort of ironic that Fiala was the guy who was painted as having the bad attitude, when all he did was address the flaws in his game and get better every year.

Get rid of the bums, keep Zucc unless we get blown away by an offer. I'D trade Foligno, too, but I can see him having more value than Greenway and Hartman. With our cap situation, we'd have to consider moving him and his 3M cap hit, though.

 

[DANOZ28]

just playing deadline gm, IF fluery will waive his no trade clause maybe vegas or pens would give us a future 2nd for G depth. dumba a healthy rhd 99 mph shot must have some value so im sticking to 2-2nds & 2-4ths. greenway maybe fletcher & company want him for a 3rd. no clue if hartman and steel are even worth a case of beer. IF goli will waive maybe ask a 4th. just my one cent hoping to watch judd look like a kid in a candy store.