Trade and Free Agency Discussion Thread - Don't Expect More Augmenting

[SeaOfBlue]

You say this as if message board posters are going to set the lineup card.

We never have, yet how often have people been talking about and questioning lineup decisions for the Leafs? Probably since the 60's. Whether we set the lineup card is irrelevant when it comes to the coaching staff making smart decisions and people wanting them to ice the best lineup.

Do you think those two players are upgrades over Clifford, Kapanen, and Johnsson in the grit department?

When we’re counting Vesey as added grit, I think that’s an indication of where we are.

Yes.

I say that because the same people who argue Bogosian shouldn’t be in the top 6 are the same guys rallying around this supposed grit we’ve added.

Not everyone has an outdated and extremely rigid definition of "grit". If we are talking about functional "grit", the kind that the vast majority of NHL teams are looking for in today's game, then we have added a fair bit of it to our lineup.

If you want the kind of truculence "grit" that Burke craved 10 years ago, then you will never be satisfied, because competitive teams are not adding those kinds of players anymore; not unless they bring a lot of other elements on top of it.

 

[Stephen]

Judging by his ornery work in the playoff bubble, Perry fit the bill for the kind of stuff the Leafs were after. Likely better than Simmonds and definitely at his price point. But maybe they don't like his personality in the room.

 

[Stephen]

Kind of curious about Sami Vatanen and what he will end up doing as a free agent.

The Leafs have been drafting guys like Rindell, Niemela, Kokkonen like they're looking for the next Vatanen. Why not take a flyer on the original Sami Vatanen if he's going to come cheap on a short term deal?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Judging by his ornery work in the playoff bubble, Perry fit the bill for the kind of stuff the Leafs were after. Likely better than Simmonds and definitely at his price point. But maybe they don't like his personality in the room.

Is it possible at the start of free agency Perry wanted more money than the Leafs were offering and it's why Dubas chose Simmonds instead? So only now Perry realized he wouldn't get the type of money he wanted and it's why he agreed to $750,000 AAV with Montreal.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Judging by his ornery work in the playoff bubble, Perry fit the bill for the kind of stuff the Leafs were after. Likely better than Simmonds and definitely at his price point. But maybe they don't like his personality in the room.

Is it possible at the start of free agency Perry wanted more money than the Leafs were offering and it's why Dubas chose Simmonds instead? So only now Perry realized he wouldn't get the type of money he wanted and it's why he agreed to $750,000 AAV with Montreal.

I think the Leafs (and even the Habs) think that Simmonds is better. Even Montreal offered a lot more money to Simmonds than they ultimately did to Perry, and Simmonds probably had a top 12 job in Montreal whereas right now it is looking like Perry will not have that job (Gallagher, Toffoli, Anderson, and Armia is their current RW depth; two of those guys are new).

We'll have to see how Simmonds does on a team like the Leafs. It is kind of hard to compare Perry to Simmonds when one played for two of the worst teams in the league while the other played for a team in the Stanley Cup Finals.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think the Leafs (and even the Habs) think that Simmonds is better. Even Montreal offered a lot more money to Simmonds than they ultimately did to Perry, and Simmonds probably had a top 12 job in Montreal whereas right now it is looking like Perry will not have that job (Gallagher, Toffoli, Anderson, and Armia is their current RW depth; two of those guys are new).

We'll have to see how Simmonds does on a team like the Leafs. It is kind of hard to compare Perry to Simmonds when one played for two of the worst teams in the league while the other played for a team in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Even though Perry did play on a team in the Stanley Cup Finals last season, it wasn't long ago during the 2018-19 season when Perry was still in Anaheim and they finished 24th overall missing the playoffs and getting his contract bought out and the reason why he signed for 1 year in Dallas.

When Simmonds got traded from New Jersey to Buffalo at last seasons trade deadline that was seen as a surprising move for Buffalo because no one though they had a shot at the playoffs.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Even though Perry did play on a team in the Stanley Cup Finals last season, it wasn't long ago during the 2018-19 season when Perry was still in Anaheim and they finished 24th overall missing the playoffs and getting his contract bought out and the reason why he signed for 1 year in Dallas.

When Simmonds got traded from New Jersey to Buffalo at last seasons trade deadline that was seen as a surprising move for Buffalo because no one though they had a shot at the playoffs.

Right, and that was the same with Simmonds and Philly, except Simmonds was a rental at the time, so he was traded to Nashville as a rental instead of getting bought out. Did not do all that great with Nashville, although they were completely anemic offensively in the playoffs (2 goals per game).

Neither looked like their usual selves on those teams. Perry moved to a better team last year, while Simmonds did not. Fingers crossed that Simmonds can do well in a 3rd or 4th line role here; something I am not entirely sure Perry would have received had he come here.

 

[ToneDog]

Is it possible at the start of free agency Perry wanted more money than the Leafs were offering and it's why Dubas chose Simmonds instead? So only now Perry realized he wouldn't get the type of money he wanted and it's why he agreed to $750,000 AAV with Montreal.

Leafs still should have been able to beat that offer but I doubt they wanted him at this point in time.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Right, and that was the same with Simmonds and Philly, except Simmonds was a rental at the time, so he was traded to Nashville as a rental instead of getting bought out. Did not do all that great with Nashville, although they were completely anemic offensively in the playoffs (2 goals per game).

Neither looked like their usual selves on those teams. Perry moved to a better team last year, while Simmonds did not. Fingers crossed that Simmonds can do well in a 3rd or 4th line role here; something I am not entirely sure Perry would have received had he come here.

When Simmonds signed with New Jersey they also gave him $5 million AAV for 1 year, so I can't blame him for accepting that money. Plus maybe he thought they would also trade him to a contender before the deadline and not send him to Buffalo of all teams. Although he also had a M-NTC and I guess the Sabres were not on his 8 team no trade list.

 

[Warden of the North]

Damn, I would've preferred Perry to Simmonds at the same price. Perry at half price is a much better deal.

Simmonds had a better season. Perry had a great playoff but he also had 4 months to get ready for a great short run.

Also, Perry may have been asking for more when free agency started and had to settle

 

[ToneDog]

Simmonds had a better season. Perry had a great playoff but he also had 4 months to get ready for a great short run.

Also, Perry may have been asking for more when free agency started and had to settle

I see no reason why Leafs could not have signed Perry or any other UFA today for $750K if they were interested. Do you sign Vatanen or Hamonic if they call asking for Dermott money ??

 

[LeafsNation75]

Leafs still should have been able to beat that offer but I doubt they wanted him at this point in time.

I agree and I'm going to assume that Dubas didn't want to sign him.

 

[Kiwi]

I see no reason why Leafs could not have signed Perry or any other UFA today for $750K if they were interested. Do you sign Vatanen or Hamonic if they call asking for Dermott money ??

Depends, we've got a ton of bodies already so sitting somebody else on the bench has the potential to become a bit of a problem as the season progresses

I've got no problem if we had no interest in Perry, we've already brought in multiple experienced players that can fill bottom 6 roles

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I see no reason why Leafs could not have signed Perry or any other UFA today for $750K if they were interested. Do you sign Vatanen or Hamonic if they call asking for Dermott money ??

You have to assume the player wants an opportunity though as well.

Maybe Perry was offered a chance at the third line on the Habs vs. having to rotate in and out of the lineup with us due to Spezza/Simmonds already being here.

If Hamonic/Vatanen want to come here we absolutely would take them at that price but they likely get a better chance to play somewhere else.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

You have to assume the player wants an opportunity though as well.

Maybe Perry was offered a chance at the third line on the Habs vs. having to rotate in and out of the lineup with us due to Spezza/Simmonds already being here.

If Hamonic/Vatanen want to come here we absolutely would take them at that price but they likely get a better chance to play somewhere else.

I imagine Tampa is going to have some interest in a guy like Vatanen if he takes a cheap deal.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kings agree to one-year deal with forward Andreas Athanasiou

1.2 mill. His struggles last year really killed him, as did his lack of hockey IQ.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I imagine Tampa is going to have some interest in a guy like Vatanen if he takes a cheap deal.

Even after they traded Coburn and Paquette and with Kucherov, Gaborik, and Nilsson going on LTIR, right now according to CapFriendly they are at a projected cap hit of $97,316,666 with $15,816,666 being used for LTIR. Plus they also have $0 in projected cap space.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I am surprised Ben Hutton has yet to find a team this year. Can excel on a bottom pairing without sheltering and can comfortably play in a top 4 if needed. He is also only 27 years old, so he is in the middle of his prime. I would take him if he would go on a taxi squad.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Even after they traded Coburn and Paquette and with Kucherov, Gaborik, and Nilsson going on LTIR, right now according to CapFriendly they are at a projected cap hit of $97,316,666 with $15,816,666 being used for LTIR. Plus they also have $0 in projected cap space.

They can sign them for 1.1 mill or something. They would have only one extra skater though.

 

[Dreakmur]

Not everyone has an outdated and extremely rigid definition of "grit". If we are talking about functional "grit", the kind that the vast majority of NHL teams are looking for in today's game, then we have added a fair bit of it to our lineup.

If you want the kind of truculence "grit" that Burke craved 10 years ago, then you will never be satisfied, because competitive teams are not adding those kinds of players anymore; not unless they bring a lot of other elements on top of it.

I want guys who work hard to aggressively win puck battles - that can involve body-checking, but doesn't have to. I want guys who are willing to take a hit to make a play. I want guys who are willing to initiate bod contact to make a play. I want guys who are willing to wade into the high traffic areas of the ice.

We have too many guys who want to win the easy way, and that doesn't work in the age of parity.

 

[Menzinger]

Judging by his ornery work in the playoff bubble, Perry fit the bill for the kind of stuff the Leafs were after. Likely better than Simmonds and definitely at his price point. But maybe they don't like his personality in the room.

Yep. Also the player may not have interest in joining the team too.

Folks have a tendency to presume automatically that just beacuse Player X signs a certain contract for one team, means they'd do the same for another. Which obviously isn't the case for many players

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yep. Also the player may not have interest in joining the team too.

Folks have a tendency to presume automatically that just beacuse Player X signs a certain contract for one team, means they'd do the same for another. Which obviously isn't the case for many players

Remember when some people thought Steven Stamkos wanted to sign in Toronto because he liked a tweet from Bob McKenzie talking about the possibility of that happening and we know that never happened.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Pass on this from me. Kerfoot proved to be solid in the bubble and I want to see if he can build on that play in 2020-21.

Everyone forgets that Kerfoot had to first deal with Babcock misusing him and overall sewering the team, and then had his fooking face caved in shortly after and had to play with a broken face & a birdcage.
Let’s give the guy a fair shake, he looked good in the bubble and has looked good in Colorado before

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I want guys who work hard to aggressively win puck battles - that can involve body-checking, but doesn't have to. I want guys who are willing to take a hit to make a play. I want guys who are willing to initiate bod contact to make a play. I want guys who are willing to wade into the high traffic areas of the ice.

We have too many guys who want to win the easy way, and that doesn't work in the age of parity.

Then we added those guys when we added Simmonds, Vesey, Thornton, and even Barabanov, on top of already having guys like Hyman and Mikheyev. I would more than welcome guys who play like Hyman or Mikheyev (at least pre-injury Mikheyev) onto this team, but there is a huge gap between what Hyman provides and what Clifford provides.

We moved on from Kapanen and Johnsson, who had consistency issues. We should have guys who are much better in tighter areas while still having the skill to do things in the open ice. Hopefully that provides more value for us. The rest comes from certain guys, and I think that especially starts with Marner, stepping up and not anything that Dubas (or anyone besides themselves) will be able to solve for them.

Otherwise, we will look for guys who can step up.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Then we added those guys when we added Simmonds, Vesey, Thornton, and even Barabanov, on top of already having guys like Hyman and Mikheyev. I would more than welcome guys who play like Hyman or Mikheyev (at least pre-injury Mikheyev) onto this team, but there is a huge gap between what Hyman provides and what Clifford provides.

We moved on from Kapanen and Johnsson, who had consistency issues. We should have guys who are much better in tighter areas while still having the skill to do things in the open ice. Hopefully that provides more value for us. The rest comes from certain guys, and I think that especially starts with Marner, stepping up and not anything that Dubas (or anyone besides themselves) will be able to solve for them.

Otherwise, we will look for guys who can step up.

If it wasn't for the salary cap do you think Kapanen and Johnsson still get traded?