Trade and Free Agency Discussion Thread - Don't Expect More Augmenting

[Dreakmur]

Then we added those guys when we added Simmonds, Vesey, Thornton, and even Barabanov, on top of already having guys like Hyman and Mikheyev. I would more than welcome guys who play like Hyman or Mikheyev (at least pre-injury Mikheyev) onto this team, but there is a huge gap between what Hyman provides and what Clifford provides.

We didn't just add. We subtracted some of our grittier players too.

We moved on from Kapanen and Johnsson, who had consistency issues. We should have guys who are much better in tighter areas while still having the skill to do things in the open ice. Hopefully that provides more value for us. The rest comes from certain guys, and I think that especially starts with Marner, stepping up and not anything that Dubas (or anyone besides themselves) will be able to solve for them.

Otherwise, we will look for guys who can step up.

I hope our top guys start to play harder too, but that's not something we have added in the off-season. Matthews turned it up in the play-offs last season, so hopefully that's the new him. We really need Marner and Nylander to follow his lead.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If it wasn't for the salary cap do you think Kapanen and Johnsson still get traded?

I think they would take the Kapanen deal. It was simply an offer that was too good to refuse.

They may have given Johnsson another chance, but he would be on a short leash with Robertson knocking on the door.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

We didn't just add. We subtracted some of our grittier players too.

We subtracted Gauthier, Clifford, Kapanen and Johnsson up front. Barrie, Ceci, and Marincin (ish) on defense.

We may have lost some grit on our 4th line by going from Gauthier and Clifford to Thornton and Barabanov, but they clearly felt like our 4th line was not useful enough as a pure checking line and wanted more skill and offense. Vesey and Simmonds add more grit and hopefully consistency to the top 9 than Kapanen and Johnsson, but are likely less skilled.

You have Vesey, Hyman, Mikheyev, and Simmonds as "grit" in the top 9. Tavares, Marner, Nylander, and Matthews as the skill. Kerfoot is kind of a hybrid. 4th line is likely going to be more skilled than it was in the past, but Barabanov still is great in tight, Thornton is at least a huge body, and Engvall/Robertson are not afraid to go to tight areas either.

Brodie is better in tight than Barrie, but Ceci is probably better than Lehtonen. Bogosian is grittier than Marincin. We also have Muzzin, Dermott, and Holl already on the roster as well. More in the top 4, less on the bottom pairing, but still fairly good all-around.

I would say that is a net positive. We'll see if it translates from paper, but Dubas did what he said he would do.

 

[Stephen]

Yep. Also the player may not have interest in joining the team too.

Folks have a tendency to presume automatically that just beacuse Player X signs a certain contract for one team, means they'd do the same for another. Which obviously isn't the case for many players

Disagree on the interest level from Perry’s side. I think it was reported that he had interest in joining Toronto at the beginning of free agency, and also add to the fact that he’s moved his family back to London, Ontario and built a post retirement home. Just doesn’t seem like Toronto was interested based on the players they ended up targeting.

 

[Stephen]

We subtracted Gauthier, Clifford, Kapanen and Johnsson up front. Barrie, Ceci, and Marincin (ish) on defense.

We may have lost some grit on our 4th line by going from Gauthier and Clifford to Thornton and Barabanov, but they clearly felt like our 4th line was not useful enough as a pure checking line and wanted more skill and offense. Vesey and Simmonds add more grit and hopefully consistency to the top 9 than Kapanen and Johnsson, but are likely less skilled.

You have Vesey, Hyman, Mikheyev, and Simmonds as "grit" in the top 9. Tavares, Marner, Nylander, and Matthews as the skill. Kerfoot is kind of a hybrid. 4th line is likely going to be more skilled than it was in the past, but Barabanov still is great in tight, Thornton is at least a huge body, and Engvall/Robertson are not afraid to go to tight areas either.

Brodie is better in tight than Barrie, but Ceci is probably better than Lehtonen. Bogosian is grittier than Marincin. We also have Muzzin, Dermott, and Holl already on the roster as well. More in the top 4, less on the bottom pairing, but still fairly good all-around.

I would say that is a net positive. We'll see if it translates from paper, but Dubas did what he said he would do.

Vesey may become a versatile secondary scorer on a team with more support but he doesn’t really come across as much of a gritty player whatsoever. I think there was an interview where he talked about having more of a grit element than he’s shown but I found that to be a bit of a stretch.

 

[Dreakmur]

We subtracted Gauthier, Clifford, Kapanen and Johnsson up front. Barrie, Ceci, and Marincin (ish) on defense.

We may have lost some grit on our 4th line by going from Gauthier and Clifford to Thornton and Barabanov, but they clearly felt like our 4th line was not useful enough as a pure checking line and wanted more skill and offense. Vesey and Simmonds add more grit and hopefully consistency to the top 9 than Kapanen and Johnsson, but are likely less skilled.

You have Vesey, Hyman, Mikheyev, and Simmonds as "grit" in the top 9. Tavares, Marner, Nylander, and Matthews as the skill. Kerfoot is kind of a hybrid. 4th line is likely going to be more skilled than it was in the past, but Barabanov still is great in tight, Thornton is at least a huge body, and Engvall/Robertson are not afraid to go to tight areas either.

Brodie is better in tight than Barrie, but Ceci is probably better than Lehtonen. Bogosian is grittier than Marincin. We also have Muzzin, Dermott, and Holl already on the roster as well. More in the top 4, less on the bottom pairing, but still fairly good all-around.

I would say that is a net positive. We'll see if it translates from paper, but Dubas did what he said he would do.

Don't get me wrong, I think we are a better team to start next season. Most of that is TJ Brodie stabilizing the top pair, and the rest is adding better leadership. None of it is the grit we added. Did we get grittier? Maybe a little bit, but we sure as heck didn't "load up" on it.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Disagree on the interest level from Perry’s side. I think it was reported that he had interest in joining Toronto at the beginning of free agency, and also add to the fact that he’s moved his family back to London, Ontario and built a post retirement home. Just doesn’t seem like Toronto was interested based on the players they ended up targeting.

Was it ever reported how much money Perry had wanted when he was interested in playing for Toronto.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Sparks gets a PTO from Calgary.

 

[Stephen]

Was it ever reported how much money Perry had wanted when he was interested in playing for Toronto.

Sounds like the speculation was he would be looking at Wayne Simmonds money but clearly the ask came down based on what he signed for in Montreal.

Montreal Canadiens continue to add to their depth signing Corey Perry.

 

[HolyCrap]

Montreal is gonna be tough to play against. But Perry will prob just be on the taxi squad as we all have been told Montreal is the deepest team from top to bottom.

 

[Buds17]

If it wasn't for the salary cap do you think Kapanen and Johnsson still get traded?

I could say yes. There's still the expansion draft to consider. The prospects from the Kapanen trade probably have the higher ceiling. Anderson does have the NHL experience though. Even without taking the cap into consideration, change still has to come from somewhere. Winger depth appeared to be the best spot for that as the team still has Marner, Nylander, Hyman and Mikheyev.

 

[Menzinger]

Disagree on the interest level from Perry’s side. I think it was reported that he had interest in joining Toronto at the beginning of free agency, and also add to the fact that he’s moved his family back to London, Ontario and built a post retirement home. Just doesn’t seem like Toronto was interested based on the players they ended up targeting.

He may have had interest to some degree, though that may have shifted elsewhere as other guys joined the team.

 

[New Liskeard]

If it wasn't for the salary cap do you think Kapanen and Johnsson still get traded?

Regardless of the salary cap, Kap was on his way out regardless IMO.

 

[Stephen]

He may have had interest to some degree, though that may have shifted elsewhere as other guys joined the team.

My feeling is Toronto would have been in the drivers seat for any Perry deal. Just the way that he landed for next to league minimum in Montreal at this late date may be an indication that there weren’t a ton of options, also judging by Hoffman on a PTO, etc. Guessing Perry is just settling for being in the league, Eastern Canada on a team with a chance.

 

[Nineteen67]

Would Perry at 700k be a better option than any one of Thornton, Simmonds, or Vesey?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Would Perry at 700k be a better option than any one of Thornton, Simmonds, or Vesey?

Thornton signed for $700,000 AAV and Perry signed for $750,000 AAV. So besides Perry being a few years younger is that extra $50,000 going to make a difference?

Vesey signed for $900,000 AAV and Simmonds signed for $1.5 million AAV.

However it was also reported that Montreal offered Simmonds more money than what he got from Toronto, so they obviously valued him when free agency started.

 

[Nineteen67]

Thornton signed for $700,000 AAV and Perry signed for $750,000 AAV. So besides Perry being a few years younger is that extra $50,000 going to make a difference?

Vesey signed for $900,000 AAV and Simmonds signed for $1.5 million AAV.

However it was also reported that Montreal offered Simmonds more money than what he got from Toronto, so they obviously valued him when free agency started.

Ha ha.....maybe they could trade Simmonds to Montreal for Perry. Add some grit and get a little cap relief.

 

[Dreakmur]

Ha ha.....maybe they could trade Simmonds to Montreal for Perry. Add some grit and get a little cap relief.

Perry doesn’t bring anything close to Simmonds in the grit department.

 

[Nineteen67]

Perry doesn’t bring anything close to Simmonds in the grit department.

At least he’s an agitator. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Simmonds does much.

 

[Dreakmur]

At least he’s an agitator. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Simmonds does much.

Perry has never brought the physical aspect that Simmonds has. His offensive has been questionable lately, but he has still brought a good physical element. Even last season, he was on pace for like 200 hits, which would have been double the next leaf forward.

 

[Nineteen67]

Perry has never brought the physical aspect that Simmonds has. His offensive has been questionable lately, but he has still brought a good physical element. Even last season, he was on pace for like 200 hits, which would have been double the next leaf forward.

He used to hit, but he’s been useless the last few years. Maybe he’ll get reinvigorated and surprise everyone, but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Gabriel426]

People do realize that Simmonds is 32 while Perry is 35. Both are not the same player they once were.
Simmonds is a better option at this point.
I have a feeling the COVID break really helped Perry to rest his body as he was pretty much meh before the break.

 

[Dreakmur]

He used to hit, but he’s been useless the last few years. Maybe he’ll get reinvigorated and surprise everyone, but I’m not holding my breath.

If you’re looking for hits, last season was the third best of his career.

 

[Nineteen67]

If you’re looking for hits, last season was the third best of his career.

The leafs don’t play that game so his hits will go likely go down.

Hopefully, if they make the playoffs and advance a round or two, they’ll have to play the dump and chase game and maybe he’ll be effective.

 

[Dreakmur]

The leafs don’t play that game so his hits will go likely go down.

Hopefully, if they make the playoffs and advance a round or two, they’ll have to play the dump and chase game and maybe he’ll be effective.

That’s not at all the same as him not being a physical presence.

I said the day he was signed, a healthy Wayne Simmonds does for another line what Hyman does for his. If he’s healthy, I think he pushes his way onto the Tavares line. Is he healthy? I hope so.

Perry runs his mouth and spears people... and then hopes a guy like Simmonds is there to protect him.