Confirmed with Link: Tortorella Fired Pt II: "The Search"

[NHRangerfan]

A few comments since I was busy at work when this all went down.

Gotta think this in large part a personality issue / influenced by numerous off ice factors. I would imagine that in his exit meeting, "the brass" asked Torts what his plans were to tweak his system for this fall. I also would imagine that Torts responded with, at most "minor tweaks".

His lack of ability to change and evolve was definitely a key issue here, perhaps THE issue. Beyond his overall philosophy this also comes back to game management (and multi-game management throughout a playoff series). Rangers' management clearly wanted to move in a different direction and at best felt Torts could not, at worst thought he would not adapt.

Beyond that though, I think the "they tuned him out" philosophy holds a good bit of truth. I also have little doubt some of Torts' decisions rubbed management the wrong way this year. Kreider's use and demotions/recalls is the most obvious example of coach-management disconnect I can remember seeing in some time. The Hagelin comment . Hank's attitude. Torts' baffling "I didn't have them ready" comment. The Richards endorsement. It all adds up. It has to add up to fire a guy who was a Jack Adams finalist last year.

I get it, and agree with it. It may seem like it at times but I am no Torts' apologist. I can recognize the flaws here. However, I also get pretty frustrated with some of the over-exuberant comments posted.






All I'm saying is, give the man a little credit. The firing thread reads like every other thread on this board when a major move is made. "The grass is always greener" could not be more relevant to this fanbase.

Yet somehow I am seeing calls to being in Alain Vignault. 40 people actually voted for him. A guy who sure seems to know how to win a Cup. Whose team was 12th in goals per game in this year's playoffs. BETTER STILL, whose team finished 19th in regular season scoring (HINT the Rangers were 15th). If that isn't Ranger fan logic I don't know what is.

Great post...the Kreider thing reminds me of Smith/Muckler disconnect with Malholtra

 

[polako]

I don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said. The talent level of this team was so much greater than any post lockout Ranger team by a country mile.

Time to give the reins to somebody else; someone with fresh ideas on how to run an NHL level offense, rather than this horrendous collapse and shot blocking system that makes the Trap Devils look like the 80's Oilers.

 

[silverfish]

Messier with Graves, Leetch, and Richter. Fire Benoit Allaire.

'94 Forever!

 

[Tundra]

team identity lost last offseason. paper tiger Rangers.

You need foot soldiers and gritty, multidimensional types to win in the playoffs. Take a look at the flavor of the year in the Los Angeles Kings. Look at their centermen (Kopitar, Richards, Stoll) and then compare them to those 3 three ranger centermen. Those 3 I mentioned don't have to supply offense to affect games. The rangers need someone like Ryan Kesler to offset the deficences they are currently saddled with, assuming Kesler isn't permanently damaged goods.

 

[Kershaw]

You need foot soldiers and gritty, multidimensional types to win in the playoffs. Take a look at the flavor of the year in the Los Angeles Kings. Look at their centermen (Kopitar, Richards, Stoll) and then compare them to those 3 three ranger centermen. Those 3 I mentioned don't have to supply offense to affect games. The rangers need someone like Ryan Kesler to offset the deficences they are currently saddled with, assuming Kesler isn't permanently damaged goods.

The Rangers center depth is not even in same stratosphere as the Kings IMO. Window of competition is closed until that is addressed.

 

[Tawnos]

Ironically, a team playing it safe was death for Tortorella.

 

[OverTheCap]

More than anything, this. For all his flaws, you knew the team was gonna come to the rink and bust their rears. Was actually going to be watchable without your blood pressure going through the roof.

That was, until good stretches of this year. Which is why I think the "lost the room" argument holds water. Saw a good bit of nights off this year.

So for as much as I was a fan of a lot of what Torts did, I get how management could feel it had run its course. Personally I also put a lot of that on the players preparedness and character this season. But clearly there were issues.

Agreed. We had a few lazy players and complacent vets when Torts took over in 2009 - all I wanted was for the team to play hard and put in an honest effort each night. Torts weeded out the loafers (Kotalik, Redden, Wolski, etc.) and helped forge a much needed hard-working identity. That is something that every team needs, no matter their talent level - the Kings, Bruins, and Blackhawks worked their ***** off to become cup champions.

But, as you mentioned, these coaches do have a shelf life. I just hope the players who felt Torts lost the room were not the same ones who showed up to camp unprepared and unconditioned, tough to blame the coach for that one.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Nobody is saying he is a bad coach BUT his system doesnt get you to the finals anymore. Defense is important but you cant just concentrate on defense and not allow your offensive players(nash kreider hagelin) to have more freedom

So do you expect the Rangers to be able to "out puck possession" Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA, Detroit, etc.?

If I felt they could it would be a no brainer. Personally I question that they have the talent to do that. Maybe they make some solid moves and pull it off.

Maybe Torts did the best with what he had. Maybe he could have done more. Guess we will find out.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Maybe cause he knows this team has trouble scoring goals more often than not? Sometimes even allowing 1 goal could feel like death with this "offensive system."

Hank would have no issue with a more open offensive system, you can bet that.

Rangers didn't play as well in their own zone this year (less blocked shots, more tentative) as last season, and Hank responded by being not as "Hank-like" in quite a few games.

Careful what you wish for, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Rangers would've been further ahead to hire a second assistant to handle the PP and transition a bit better.

 

[Zamboner]

Now that my dreams have come true, who's next?


Guys I definitely don't want.
Alain Vigneault, Lindy (Lindsay) Ruff, Mark Messier, Pierre Mcgquire.

If it had to be one of those men, my choices would be in that order. AV reminds me of a slightly better version of Tortorella. Ruff seems like a wash. I don't see the point with Ruff, at all. Our offense would be better, but I'd see a lot of the same problems with those two.

Mess and Pierre are just lol. I can't believe people here are recommending Pierre. Pierre is a moron. Mess is a wildcard. He could be great, he could be the worst thing ever. I don't know. Too much of an unknown.

Guys that intrigue me.
Dallas Eakins, Guy Boucher

I don't know anything about Eakins, other than people here seem to like him. I like the fact that he's a new blood. I hate recycling old guys who just got fired for (probably) legitimate reasons.

Watch me immediately contradict myself with now putting Guy Boucher in the same group. I like coaches in their "second job." And that goes in any sport. Not totally inexperienced at this level, still young enough where the hunger and new ideas are there, but lessons are learned with the first failure. I'd prefer Guy to the AV's and Ruff's any day of the week.

Hire him tomorrow if you can
Dave Tippett, Mike Babcock

Tippett's supporters here have done well. I just think he is a rock solid coach who gets the most out of his team, and our roster, while not perfect, still has a lot to get out of it. Tippett can do that.

Babcock is obviously unrealistic, but I'd seriously trade draft picks for him. Brian Boyle too. Best coach in the league.

 

[NikC]

I was excited when Tortorella arrived. He was itentense and passionate (still is), but then playing safe is death became death by playing safe.
As the talent level increased on this team he proved he was unable to
integrate an effective offensive system.

We had a great season last year, but were nearly knocked out in the first round by the 8th seed and again by the 7th! We had character but zero offense! If not for Krieder we don't advance.

no set lines, constantly changing lines, won't roll 4 lines, 5 years no power play, no defensive zone breakout, no neutral zone game, collapsing in front of the goalie, screening the goalie, players getting hurt needlessly by dropping constantly in front of shots, Sitting on one goal leads...


thanks. take care now.

 

[ltsthinaz]

Now that my dreams have come true, who's next?


Guys I definitely don't want.
Alain Vigneault, Lindy (Lindsay) Ruff, Mark Messier, Pierre Mcgquire.

If it had to be one of those men, my choices would be in that order. AV reminds me of a slightly better version of Tortorella. Ruff seems like a wash. I don't see the point with Ruff, at all. Our offense would be better, but I'd see a lot of the same problems with those two.

Mess and Pierre are just lol. I can't believe people here are recommending Pierre. Pierre is a moron. Mess is a wildcard. He could be great, he could be the worst thing ever. I don't know. Too much of an unknown.

Guys that intrigue me.
Dallas Eakins, Guy Boucher

I don't know anything about Eakins, other than people here seem to like him. I like the fact that he's a new blood. I hate recycling old guys who just got fired for (probably) legitimate reasons.

Watch me immediately contradict myself with now putting Guy Boucher in the same group. I like coaches in their "second job." And that goes in any sport. Not totally inexperienced at this level, still young enough where the hunger and new ideas are there, but lessons are learned with the first failure. I'd prefer Guy to the AV's and Ruff's any day of the week.

Hire him tomorrow if you can
Dave Tippett, Mike Babcock

Tippett's supporters here have done well. I just think he is a rock solid coach who gets the most out of his team, and our roster, while not perfect, still has a lot to get out of it. Tippett can do that.

Babcock is obviously unrealistic, but I'd seriously trade draft picks for him. Brian Boyle too. Best coach in the league.

My thoughts, almost exactly.

 

[Tawnos]

Hire him tomorrow if you can
Dave Tippett, Mike Babcock

Tippett's supporters here have done well. I just think he is a rock solid coach who gets the most out of his team, and our roster, while not perfect, still has a lot to get out of it. Tippett can do that.

Babcock is obviously unrealistic, but I'd seriously trade draft picks for him. Brian Boyle too. Best coach in the league.

I'd add McLellan to this group.

 

[RangerBoy]

You can tell Arthur Staple is a Torts guy.

Of course, there is work to be done with this Rangers team this offseason. Sather wasn't thrilled with Tortorella's honest but impolitic assessment that the Rick Nash trade and the loss of Brandon Prust in free agency changed the depth Tortorella relied upon last season, and not for the better. Removing Tortorella doesn't remove the truth of what the former coach said.

Torts was on board with those moves.

A source indicated this will be a quick process, so Sather already may have a new coach in mind.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...n-himself-by-firing-john-tortorella-1.5365582

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Things worked out soooo well the last time the Rangers gave up draft picks for a coach.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Is there any possibility that Babcock will be available if the Wings lose tonight? He's been with the Wings forever...might be time for a change of scenery for him.

That's one guy who is definitely a coaching upgrade for any team out there.

 

[Tawnos]

Things worked out soooo well the last time the Rangers gave up draft picks for a coach.

Bergeron?

 

[GregSirico]

Babcock a reality?

 

[ltsthinaz]

I'd add McLellan to this group.

Meh. Sharks are a perennial disappointment. Whether that reflects talent or a lack of a work ethic is open to question, but there are better options.

On another note, watching some of these teams that can move the puck and have a power play (like, for instance, Chicago and Detroit) puts the fun back in hockey.

I'm glad Torts is gone - I hate the grinding style and collapsing defense. I don't want to kill him (verbally, of course) - we did, after, have competitive teams every year after years out of the playoffs. But we never were going to win the Cup with him and his style and a team of grinders, and that's the ultimate idea, especially when we have Lundqvist.

Also, I wonder if top-tier talents might be more willing to come to the Rangers knowing that they might actually not be turned into dump-and-chase grinders and shot-blockers.

 

[NYR94]

Eakins interviews for the Canucks job on Wednesday.

 

[Boruto]

You can tell Arthur Staple is a Torts guy.



Torts was on board with those moves.



http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...n-himself-by-firing-john-tortorella-1.5365582

thanks, dawg.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

You can tell Arthur Staple is a Torts guy.



Torts was on board with those moves.



http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...n-himself-by-firing-john-tortorella-1.5365582

Staple makes excellents points

[But perhaps the biggest thing Tortorella accomplished in his time behind the bench was to take the heat off Glen Sather, the Rangers president and general manager who hasn't been called out nearly as much since he hired the volatile Tortorella back in February 2009.

That cushion is gone now after Sather decided to fire Tortorella. The focus is on the GM and his players.
/QUOTE]

Tortorella put a lot of the focus on himself, with his rigorous training camps, his demanding style and his media dealings. Sather has put the spotlight back on himself with this move, and though it hasn't been mentioned much with the team's modest success the past few seasons, Sather will be starting his 14th season as Rangers president. He just fired the only coach who got his team beyond the second round of the playoffs.

The Man Behind the Curtain steps into the spotlight. He is not willing to wait another 3-5 years. The next coach is going to have to show more results, faster.

 

[Machinehead]

This doesn't solve all of our problems. It opens the door for us to solve our problems.

Now we can go out and get scoring help without worrying that said player will be put in the doghouse because he doesn't have enough jam.

Next step is to buy out Richards.

 

[Pizza]

Nobody is saying he is a bad coach BUT his system doesnt get you to the finals anymore. Defense is important but you cant just concentrate on defense and not allow your offensive players(nash kreider hagelin) to have more freedom

Defense is just a huge, HUGE part of the deal. At least two way play. You bring in guys like Nash, Richards et. al. because...well because they are who they are. They should still be opportunistic and creative in defensively responsible system. If we're gonna blame the coach for their total absence on the ice....

Look it does not matter. Whats done is done and probably for good reason. At least I hope so.

 

[RangerBoy]

Maybe Henrik Lundqvist, who hates being screened or having sliding defensemen deflecting shots past him, and who has grown frustrated of being in 2-1 games under Tortorella’s system, and who, by the way, was friendly with Marian Gaborik and Sean Avery, and who was non-committal in discussing his desire to sign a new contract (his expires in 2014) and whose view of this season being a backward step differed from Tortorella’s view, was a factor.

Maybe Brad Richards, who was scratched for Games 4 and 5 against Boston after what Sather said was an organizational decision, but was given more rope that any player Tortorella has ever coached here, was a factor. The organization will almost certainly buy out his contract. Maybe Tortorella didn’t buy into that buy out.

http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2013/05/29/171482/

Management and Torts had a different vision of how the team should move forward.