Toronto Sports Media Discussion Thread - v7 (2022 Edition)

[Peasy]

No idea how they canned Kyper originally when they got the new TV deal, yet hes somehow stuck around like a piece of gum on your shoe and somehow made it back on their set for a Leaf game lol

 

[wingman75]

I really don't mind Bourne. A lot of his analysis is analytics driven, which is fine... I mean it is a perspective worth hearing about. While I don't mind Kyper on the Kyper & Bourne show, not sure I need to see him on Leaf broadcasts... his takes are fine in that setting whether they are ridiculous or not. Honestly just running with a host, and two others would be fine.

I think I like Elliot about as much as I like Kyper, which isn't a lot... but again, it's an intermission where I am probably up doing something quickly so I can catch the puck drop for the next period, so I'll catch some of what they are saying at best.

 

[Evilhomer]

I really don't mind Bourne. A lot of his analysis is analytics driven, which is fine... I mean it is a perspective worth hearing about. While I don't mind Kyper on the Kyper & Bourne show, not sure I need to see him on Leaf broadcasts... his takes are fine in that setting whether they are ridiculous or not. Honestly just running with a host, and two others would be fine.

I think I like Elliot about as much as I like Kyper, which isn't a lot... but again, it's an intermission where I am probably up doing something quickly so I can catch the puck drop for the next period, so I'll catch some of what they are saying at best.

I think the problem is that there is only so much a sports tv or radio guy can do. It's a world of short attention spans. Everyone has to have a schtick in order to survive. There isn't a market for rational discussion where the technical aspects of a sport are analyzed. Europe can do it with soccer, but we can't seem to do it with our sports here. Baseball is probably the closest to that ideal.

 

[Apex Predator]

I think the problem is that there is only so much a sports tv or radio guy can do. It's a world of short attention spans. Everyone has to have a schtick in order to survive. There isn't a market for rational discussion where the technical aspects of a sport are analyzed. Europe can do it with soccer, but we can't seem to do it with our sports here. Baseball is probably the closest to that ideal.

That’s an interesting point. Why do you think that is?

 

[kevsh]

There's a handful of YouTubers that get pretty deep into analysis of the Leafs (and other teams I imagine), but nothing in the mainstream media.

The problem is that the media executives see that these streamers have at best a couple of thousand followers and conclude that there's a reason why they aren't more popular.

Easy to understand: If I'm a Leafs nut and want to consume everything I can about them, I've got a half dozen YouTubers, Kyper & Bourne, 31 Thoughts, Overdrive, Sports radio, etc. to choose between and there's only so many hours in a day.

 

[tmlms13]

I think sports talk needs to be more structured follow the PTI and Around the Horn models especially the newer shows that dont have their schtick down pat like the Overdrive guys.

The US shows you always know what's coming up next, have a legit sports talk, stay on topic. you can cover a lot of sports in 2 hours if you can avoid a 20 minute tangent about nothing

 

[Nineteen67]

I think the problem is that there is only so much a sports tv or radio guy can do. It's a world of short attention spans. Everyone has to have a schtick in order to survive. There isn't a market for rational discussion where the technical aspects of a sport are analyzed. Europe can do it with soccer, but we can't seem to do it with our sports here. Baseball is probably the closest to that ideal.

In the US, football sports radio is either nonsensical technical analysis or even more nonsensical fans calling in. It works, but not as well as it used to.

Baseball radio, especially Toronto, is unlistenable. Even the play by play. I stopped listening to Ben Wagner when they added Shulman and those other jokers that have never touched a baseball, let alone got a uniform dirty, analyzing every pitch.
Hopefully they hire the girl that played softball at TN, she’s terrific, clear voice, and knows what she’s watching.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Rogers & Bell have continued the long standing tradition among Leafs ownership of measuring success in terms of ticket sales instead of the won/loss column.

Ontario Teachers Ink The Greatest Sports Deal In History

Ontario Teachers' has made about $1 billion in profits from the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Raptors.

www.google.com

"In addition, much to the dismay of the Toronto fan base, Ontario Teachers’ has proven that winning is not a necessary component for investment success".

Ever since Ballard money has always come first with this team.

Winning a cup is only a secondary consideration for these turkeys. It's unacceptable our hometown team is being managed by a babble of buffoons who only care about profit. We, the fans, are the only ones who actually care if the team is successful or not.

The biggest, most well informed, fan base of all time should have a bigger say.

Our voices are not being heard. Or, rather, they're being ignored. Nothing says "we don't care what our fans think" more than bringing the whole gang back for another kick at the can.

Ironically, if they had listened to their fans, the team would be in a better position today.

They might have even won a cup by now.

 

[Nineteen67]

Rogers & Bell have continued the long standing tradition among Leafs ownership of measuring success in terms of ticket sales instead of the won/loss column.

Ontario Teachers Ink The Greatest Sports Deal In History

Ontario Teachers' has made about $1 billion in profits from the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Raptors.

www.google.com

"In addition, much to the dismay of the Toronto fan base, Ontario Teachers’ has proven that winning is not a necessary component for investment success".

Ever since Ballard money has always come first with this team.

Winning a cup is only a secondary consideration for these turkeys. It's unacceptable our hometown team is being managed by a babble of buffoons who only care about profit. We, the fans, are the only ones who actually care if the team is successful or not.

The biggest, most well informed, fan base of all time should have a bigger say.

Our voices are not being heard. Or, rather, they're being ignored. Nothing says "we don't care what our fans think" more than bringing the whole gang back for another kick at the can.

Ironically, if they had listened to their fans, the team would be in a better position today.

They might have even won a cup by now.

They have developed a great marketing system to create excess demand for tickets that’s created a pressure free environment for the owners and players. It’s unique.
Fans believe the organization is elite simple because they have such strong support, but in terms of winning, they are one of the worst franchises in North America.

Having said that, I’ll likely be at a Leafs game in Nashville and TB this year.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

They have developed a great marketing system to create excess demand for tickets that’s created a pressure free environment for the owners and players. It’s unique.
Fans believe the organization is elite simple because they have such strong support, but in terms of winning, they are one of the worst franchises in North America.

Having said that, I’ll likely be at a Leafs game in Nashville and TB this year.

All that money and they still haven't won a cup.

It's clearly not about winning. If it was about winning they would have done it by now. Vegas started out with a bunch of other teams rejects and won a cup in six years.

It can be done.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Justin Bourne, who listens to a guy that monetizes his alcoholism? These people are vampires. Don't even get me started on rumor monger Friedman.

 

[Nineteen67]

All that money and they STILL haven't won a cup.

It's clearly not about winning. If it was about winning they would have done it by now. Vegas started out with a bunch of other teams rejects and won a cup in six years.

It can be done.

Ironically, had they won they’d actually have more money, but they just continually get away with shooting themselves. Example, the Dubas hire.

 

[ACC1224]

All that money and they still haven't won a cup.

It's clearly not about winning. If it was about winning they would have done it by now. Vegas started out with a bunch of other teams rejects and won a cup in six years.

It can be done.

You have this unique ability to be wrong in everything you post, it's quite remarkable.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

You have this unique ability to be wrong in everything you post, it's quite remarkable.

I suppose if I ignore the fact that A) they are the most profitable team in the league, and B) they still haven't won anything, I could be led to believe that winning was more important that making a few bucks.

But that would require me to ignore a lot more of reality than I'm comfortable with.

You might be right. They might actually be truly THAT incompetent. It's either one or the other, there is no other choice.

Although I suppose it could be both.

It's probably both.

 

[ACC1224]

I suppose if I ignore the fact that A) they are the most profitable team in the league, and B) they still haven't won anything, I could be led to believe that winning was more important that making a few bucks.

But that would require me to ignore a lot more of reality than I'm comfortable with.

You might be right. They might actually be truly THAT incompetent. It's either one or the other, there is no other choice.

Although I suppose it could be both.

It's probably both.

Would 4 rounds of playoffs earn them more than 3? Would 3 rounds earn them more than 2? Could they spend league minimum or continue to spend well above the cap? Do you believe all teams have a secret winning button that the Leafs refuse to push?

Forget all that though, the real question is why wouldn't they want to win?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Would 4 rounds of playoffs earn them more than 3? Would 3 rounds earn them more than 2? Could they spend league minimum or continue to spend well above the cap? Do you believe all teams have a secret winning button that the Leafs refuse to push?

Forget all that though, the real question is why wouldn't they want to win?

It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

On the one hand they want to win. But they are too incompetent. You are correct.

On the other hand businesses are in business to make money.

That's their primary objective. ML$E has shareholders to please. Winning is a secondary objective.

The piddly revenues from a few extra playoffs games isn't enough to excite these guys.

It's chump change for a company that rakes in billions every year. A cup win would be a small one time boost in earnings like when the Raptors won. It wouldn't significantly increase long term revenues.

Not to mention the underlying valuation of the business itself that is growing like a tech company on steroids.

That's where the real money's at. So long as their million dollar investment turns into a billion dollar investment in ten years Rogers and Bell will be happy. If they somehow actually win a cup along the way, even better.

They can make a few extra bucks showing the parade on the tv.

 

[ACC1224]

It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

On the one hand they want to win. But they are too incompetent. You are correct.

On the other hand businesses are in business to make money.

That's their primary objective. ML$E has shareholders to please. Winning is a secondary objective.

The piddly revenues from a few extra playoffs games isn't enough to excite these guys.

It's chump change for a company that rakes in billions every year. A cup win would be a small one time boost in earnings like when the Raptors won. It wouldn't significantly increase long term revenues.

Not to mention the underlying valuation of the business itself that is growing like a tech company on steroids.

That's where the real money's at. So long as their million dollar investment turns into a billion dollar investment in ten years Rogers and Bell will be happy. If they somehow actually win a cup along the way, even better.

They can make a few extra bucks showing the parade on the tv.

Well that clears that up

 

[Warden of the North]

The argument that the the Leafs haven't won a Cup (at least in the post Ballard era) because they make profits currently doesnt holdup under scrutiny.

More winning = more money. Winning a Cup would bring in incalculable amounts of money for shareholders. It could not possibly be higher then if they won a Championship.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The argument that the the Leafs haven't won a Cup (at least in the post Ballard era) because they make profits currently doesnt holdup under scrutiny.

More winning = more money. Winning a Cup would bring in incalculable amounts of money for shareholders. It could not possibly be higher then if they won a Championship.

Thanks for the response.

I appreciate someone who actually wants to engage in rational conversation.

I'm not convinced winning a cup would bring in as much money as you imply. It didn't when the Raptors won. Outside of a short boost in revenues the long term income remains the same.

That's because fans still only have the same amount of disposable income to spend on sports entertainment every year.

It would be nice for the team to win. As a fan it's all I want. As a business owner seeking to maximize shareholder equity it wouldn't be my number one priority however.

Thinking otherwise would be a bit naive.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Rogers & Bell have continued the long standing tradition among Leafs ownership of measuring success in terms of ticket sales instead of the won/loss column.

Ontario Teachers Ink The Greatest Sports Deal In History

Ontario Teachers' has made about $1 billion in profits from the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Raptors.

www.google.com

"In addition, much to the dismay of the Toronto fan base, Ontario Teachers’ has proven that winning is not a necessary component for investment success".

Ever since Ballard money has always come first with this team.

Winning a cup is only a secondary consideration for these turkeys. It's unacceptable our hometown team is being managed by a babble of buffoons who only care about profit. We, the fans, are the only ones who actually care if the team is successful or not.

The biggest, most well informed, fan base of all time should have a bigger say.

Our voices are not being heard. Or, rather, they're being ignored. Nothing says "we don't care what our fans think" more than bringing the whole gang back for another kick at the can.

Ironically, if they had listened to their fans, the team would be in a better position today.

They might have even won a cup by now.

What more can ownership do aside spend to the cap and spend the most in the league for off ice aspects like coaching, management and sports science?
If there are no good trades or moves that make the team better why make a move for the sake of placating the vocal minority? This would be like federal or provincial governments changing laws based on a bunch of uneducated honkey protestors.
This org would not be better off listening to reactionary knuckle draggers, no.

 

[al secord]

It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

On the one hand they want to win. But they are too incompetent. You are correct.

On the other hand businesses are in business to make money.

That's their primary objective. ML$E has shareholders to please. Winning is a secondary objective.

The piddly revenues from a few extra playoffs games isn't enough to excite these guys.

It's chump change for a company that rakes in billions every year. A cup win would be a small one time boost in earnings like when the Raptors won. It wouldn't significantly increase long term revenues.

Not to mention the underlying valuation of the business itself that is growing like a tech company on steroids.

That's where the real money's at. So long as their million dollar investment turns into a billion dollar investment in ten years Rogers and Bell will be happy. If they somehow actually win a cup along the way, even better.

They can make a few extra bucks showing the parade on the tv.

You can't even get your whining right.

 

[Apex Predator]

What more can ownership do aside spend to the cap and spend the most in the league for off ice aspects like coaching, management and sports science?
If there are no good trades or moves that make the team better why make a move for the sake of placating the vocal minority? This would be like federal or provincial governments changing laws based on a bunch of uneducated honkey protestors.
This org would not be better off listening to reactionary knuckle draggers, no.

We’ll never know if there are good trades or not. What offers are out there aren’t leaked. What one person thinks is a good move another might not. How many times have we thought a trade bad and it turned out good and vice versa. This is something we can never know will work.

There are universes where making a trade has worked out and hasn’t. We live in a universe where they haven’t made a trade and are waiting to see if that works out.

 

[Nylanderthal]

We’ll never know if there are good trades or not. What offers are out there aren’t leaked. What one person thinks is a good move another might not. How many times have we thought a trade bad and it turned out good and vice versa. This is something we can never know will work.

There are universes where making a trade has worked out and hasn’t. We live in a universe where they haven’t made a trade and are waiting to see if that works out.

What out there that was realistic would make the team better? None of the moves rumoured all summer made this team any better. Their best shot is having the best collection of players they can and right now that includes the big 4 forwards and Rielly.

 

[sxvnert]

Thanks for the response.

I appreciate someone who actually wants to engage in rational conversation.

I'm not convinced winning a cup would bring in as much money as you imply. It didn't when the Raptors won. Outside of a short boost in revenues the long term income remains the same.

That's because fans still only have the same amount of disposable income to spend on sports entertainment every year.

It would be nice for the team to win. As a fan it's all I want. As a business owner seeking to maximize shareholder equity it wouldn't be my number one priority however.

Thinking otherwise would be a bit naive.

Exactly. Maintaining a long term playoff team generates far more than a few one and done attempts which require many years of non playoff hockey to rebuild.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Exactly. Maintaining a long term playoff team generates far more than a few one and done attempts which require many years of non playoff hockey to rebuild.

Maintaining a playoff quality team giving them multiple chances is also funnily enough the best path to success as well.