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The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

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BFLO said:
I disagree with this philosophy. You can still strike out even if you don't take any swings. And Adams has struck out. There are no walks in this analogy for Adams to try to fall back on by not taking any swings.

I think Adams is giving Milbury a run for his money. Eichel, Reinhart, Ullmark and Montour is an impressive group of players to trade away or otherwise lose. And these players have already had more immediate success than the big names that Milbury traded away like Chara, Spezza or Luongo.

The Islanders even made the playoffs in Milbury's 4th, 5th and 6th seasons as full time GM.
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So you are telling me that you would rather have a GM come in and Milbury this roster than stay on the present course? That seems like desperation talking. This roster is not that bad. It is coached poorly and absolutely built wrong for a Ruff game plan, but it is also the youngest team in the league and there are a lot of paths forward that I believe can still lead to a very competitive roster without a complete overhaul.

But back to the philosophy in question, which is that bad trades are worse than no trades. If a trade is better than a no-trade, then isn't it a good trade just by definition alone? A bad trade by nature is always worse than a no-trade, so there shouldn't be any real world scenario where a bad trade is good.

Bad value trades may happen for team needs and they can still be good trades that improve a team. 40 goal scorer and former first overall pick Owen Nolan for Sandis Ozolinsh was a terrible value trade, but all in all, a good trade for Colorado.
 
BFLO said:
Quality core players can be moved at any time. Top 4D move all the time, especially in the lead up to the TDL, Rantanen was just moved, JT Miller was just moved. Quality, substantial moves can be made at any time, and the longer Adams waits to begin making them, the longer we will wallow in the drought.

I think you're saying that with the cap going up there will be fewer cap casualties available to pick up? I agree with that.

But it's not like we took advantage of any cap casualties during the last 5 years, during the crunch of the flat covid cap... while we lead the league in cap space.
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Rantanan is a pending UFA. So, he is not what I would call a core player as the team acquiring him has no control over where he plays in 2025-26 and beyond.

And the JT Miller situation is unique in that there was a lot of toxicity in the Vancouver locker room. You don't see that with a bunch of teams throughout the league and with guys that would help here.

Yeah, they haven't taken advantage of their cap situation in the past and fewer teams will need to move core guys due to cap constraints with the cap going up significantly in the next few years.

TehDoak said:
I mean...I would think the past few years have been pretty Terry lite, especially while his wife was doing worse than she is now. Maybe its ramped up more recently.

Either way, it pales in comparison to his involvement when he first bought the team.

I'd say he's probably still one of the more involved owners in the league.
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Just because Terry hasn't been talking to media a lot lately doesn't mean that he hasn't been in the building and talking to the GM and his staff has much as in the past. A lot of that stuff is the behind the scenes stuff that fans and media have zero insight into.
 
truthbluth said:
It wasn't a rumor. It was speculation by Matthew Fairburn, but the it was almost definitely from a mailbag question written by an hfboards member. So this is circular.
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When did he say this? I read this the day before yesterday from a completely different source.
 
Irie said:
So you are telling me that you would rather have a GM come in and Milbury this roster than stay on the present course? That seems like desperation talking. This roster is not that bad. It is coached poorly and absolutely built wrong for a Ruff game plan, but it is also the youngest team in the league and there are a lot of paths forward that I believe can still lead to a very competitive roster without a complete overhaul.
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I think you are overstating the quality of this roster.

We have 1 top line forward.

We have 1 top pair d-man.

We have an average starting goalie.

We have the makings of a second line...if we had more top end talent to push them down

Our bottom six is OK, but not that effective.

The lack of high end talent and prospects is the issue. The core issue. To correct that, there are only three solutions:

- Get stupidly lucky like we did with Thompson that a player on the scrap heap just magically develops
- Make a large move to acquire one or two core pieces
- Pick at the top of the draft.

Without major changes, matched with the best possible coach, in the next 3 years, the upside of this roster is a wild card berth and a swift first round exit. With everything breaking right.

We're building towards being a speed bump in April. At best.

Irie said:
But back to the philosophy in question, which is that bad trades are worse than no trades. If a trade is better than a no-trade, then isn't it a good trade just by definition alone? A bad trade by nature is always worse than a no-trade, so there shouldn't be any real world scenario where a bad trade is good.

Bad value trades may happen for team needs and they can still be good trades that improve a team. 40 goal scorer and former first overall pick Owen Nolan for Sandis Ozolinsh was a terrible value trade, but all in all, a good trade for Colorado.
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I mean, the equivalent would be moving Power for a top end power forward, which I think most fans would cheer at this point.
 
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Irie said:
So you are telling me that you would rather have a GM come in and Milbury this roster than stay on the present course? That seems like desperation talking. This roster is not that bad. It is coached poorly and absolutely built wrong for a Ruff game plan, but it is also the youngest team in the league and there are a lot of paths forward that I believe can still lead to a very competitive roster without a complete overhaul.

But back to the philosophy in question, which is that bad trades are worse than no trades. If a trade is better than a no-trade, then isn't it a good trade just by definition alone? A bad trade by nature is always worse than a no-trade, so there shouldn't be any real world scenario where a bad trade is good.

Bad value trades may happen for team needs and they can still be good trades that improve a team. 40 goal scorer and former first overall pick Owen Nolan for Sandis Ozolinsh was a terrible value trade, but all in all, a good trade for Colorado.
Click to expand...
I'd rather have a GM come in and try anything other than sitting on his hands to the extent that Adams has.

If a bad trade and a no-trade both have the same outcome for the team, then no, the bad trade is not worse than the no-trade. They are both bad outcomes.

I'm not saying I want someone to come in and make bad trades. I'm saying that I want to take the risk of making moves, over not making moves. Even the best GMs make mistakes, but the sum of their moves tilt the results in their teams favor.

The results of Adams in-action has been complete and utter failure. This result is no different than if he had made bad moves. Adams results are actually worse than your example of Milbury.
 
After diving into the metrics, I'm very open to the idea of trading for EP. The metrics support that this is a serious outlier year for him as a player. His linemate quality is not very high (playing with Kiefer Sherwood isn't going to help anyone), he is shooting way below career average (11% this year compared to 4 straight years at 16-17% prior). He is at 46% o-zone ES starts, where in the past seasons he was closer to 54% o-zone starts at ES. He is also lower on ice time, below 19 minutes for the first time in 3-4 seasons.

Coming into the year off an injury, high end pressure, and locker room issues with Miller (a known headcase).

If you take him and put him in Cozens role (playing with Peterka/Quinn or Zucker/Tuch) with PP time and 55% zone start (what Cozens gets), I'd fully expect him to be at a minimum a 70 point player. With the cap going up, and the potential to offload Cozens deal, I dont think it's that much of a risk to being EP in.

If you have Thompson and EP as your top 2 centers (I know Kulich has been getting Center duties with Thompson, with Mcleod at third line with Tuch, that's a very strong center spine to work with. And they are all locked down.

11M is going to be the new 8M in 2-3 years. I'd try Cozens + cond. 1st + Lafferty and see if Vancouver would bite.
 
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Top 9 with

Tage
EP40
Tuch
Peterka
Zucker (or his replacment)
Kulich
McLeod
Benson
Greenway (or his replacment)

Add Kesselring/Whitecloud and go to playoff.
 
Fjordsen said:
Top 9 with

Tage
EP40
Tuch
Peterka
Zucker (or his replacment)
Kulich
McLeod
Benson
Greenway (or his replacment)

Add Kesselring/Whitecloud and go to playoff.
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This is a large bet that EP40 is going to return to form, essentially.

Assuming Kulich can go to 2C successfully, you are probably starting to see the makings of a decent forward group by swapping Cozens + for EP.

I'm less sure about the fixes on defense, though.
 
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