Toronto Sports Media Discussion Thread - v7 (2022 Edition)

[Tufted Titmouse]

The flip side of this is entirely true as well.

I don't think it is, but it's probably not worth the time to argue.

A year is a long, long time to wait to find out so I guess we all gotta just suck it up hope something clicks next year.

 

[Stinger8]

Read this would me you believe Toronto got blown out this series.
Truth is that the Leafs drastically outplayed the reigning 2 time Cup winners in a 7 game series and came 1 goal short.
None of this is a problem if the Leafs score on any of the myriad of chances Vasilevsky stopped with his elbow and shoulder in Game 7.
None of this is a problem if the Leafs score in OT.
None of this is a problem if the Leafs manage to kill off a 5on3 in Game 6.
None of this is a problem if the officiating had been mediocre and we had not been assessed a 5 on 3 in Game 6, or if the referees stopped arbitrarily deciding when to start calling various infractions.
None of this is a problem if Toronto has a power play hitting at 30% like they did during the regular season instead of 15%......again.
None of this is a problem if Toronto isn't assessed a 5 minute major + game misconduct, suspension, and a total of 4 instances of 5 on 3 in all of 7 games played.


Is the fact that the Cap situation is tight coming into 2022/2023 a surprise to any of you?
Is the fact that the Leafs' defense corps is not young a surprise to any of you?
Was the Tavares signing a surprise to any of you?

Holy Overreacting Monday out here...

Are Calgary fans losing their minds screaming that they need to make changes up and down their line-up?
No, their team scored a lucky goal in OT instead of allowing a lucky goal.

Toronto fans behave so much like the DoPS that it's scary.
The result matters more than the underlying substance.

The team doesn't need to be blown up.
The team doesn't need any more time to build either.
Play that series 100 times and you likely get Toronto to win 50 times and Tampa to win 50 times.

Once again, when something is a coin-flip, Toronto gets the short end of the stick. Just like marginally questionable calls by officials, marginal suspensions that always lean to the heavy handed instead of the lenient.

The Leafs should keep the core intact as much as possible because they showed that they are not a step below the cup winners.

Having said that, if Toronto absolutely needs to move a big piece, then it has to be Nylander. There is just no other option.
I assume Kerfoot is gone and I won't shed a single tear for that loss, and if it were up to me, Engvall and Mikheyev would also go out the door.

Now, the financial situation will require some changes, but swapping out 4th line players is not as impactful as moving core players or firing the front office personnel.

The Leafs DID NOT drastically out play the Bolts. That is silly. The rest of the post I agree with. Leafs have to get more physical, they are NOT designed to be a PLAYOFF winning team. Need 4 new guys, 2 up front and 2 on backend who wont back down like Engval did when challenged by a guy 4 or 5 inches shorter or Nylander skating away from physical engagment. This image is seen by all and everyone plays more timid and afraid. We have Clark's no Tuckers, no Corson's no Roberts, no Rouses no Domis no Kings no Yushkevichs, we need grit before we make the next step in playoff hockey

 

[al secord]

The beauty of being in the "blow it up" camp, is that if they win next season, you can celebrate ane be happy and no one will bother to check the recipts and see if you were one of the "fire everyone, dubasss is a moron fans" who shit on the team.

But if they lose next year, you can proclaim how you were right, others were dumb, etc.

It's a no-lose position to take.

If they blow it up, they probably won't make the playoffs. So chances of winning next season are slim to none. They're still in win now mode, so no one's blowing anything up.

The media just needs to get creative. Outside of trolling, they aren't really great at thinking outside the box.

 

[ACC1224]

Who is in this 'blow it up camp'?
Sounds fictitious.

 

[Apex Predator]

Who is in this 'blow it up camp'?
Sounds fictitious.

I don’t think I’ve seen a major group in blowing it up. A couple people who are overreacting. Majority that want change aren’t saying blow it up but trade one core 4 player.

 

[justashadowof]

If you define "blowing it up" as moving out star player(s) while acquiring other star player(s) in an attempt at winning in the playoffs, then I'm pro blowing it up. To me blowing it up means disassembling a roster for the purpose of a rebuild that will take several seasons of bottom feeding.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

If you define "blowing it up" as moving out star player(s) while acquiring other star player(s) in an attempt at winning in the playoffs, then I'm pro blowing it up. To me blowing it up means disassembling a roster for the purpose of a rebuild that will take several seasons of bottom feeding.

People are using "blowing it up" as the gameplan for anyone who wants changes because it makes them look worse and makes it look like they are giving up on winning with this group.

The reality is most of us just want to try a different recipe - this one hasn't set right for many, many years now. Invest in goaltending and top pairing defencemen who won't be under siege against Kucherov types OR Cirelli type bangers.

 

[Brobust]

If they blow it up, they probably won't make the playoffs. So chances of winning next season are slim to none. They're still in win now mode, so no one's blowing anything up.

The media just needs to get creative. Outside of trolling, they aren't really great at thinking outside the box.

Well, Friedman said try Marner at C. Which is an idea I like.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Read this would me you believe Toronto got blown out this series.
Truth is that the Leafs drastically outplayed the reigning 2 time Cup winners in a 7 game series and came 1 goal short.
None of this is a problem if the Leafs score on any of the myriad of chances Vasilevsky stopped with his elbow and shoulder in Game 7.
None of this is a problem if the Leafs score in OT.
None of this is a problem if the Leafs manage to kill off a 5on3 in Game 6.
None of this is a problem if the officiating had been mediocre and we had not been assessed a 5 on 3 in Game 6, or if the referees stopped arbitrarily deciding when to start calling various infractions.
None of this is a problem if Toronto has a power play hitting at 30% like they did during the regular season instead of 15%......again.
None of this is a problem if Toronto isn't assessed a 5 minute major + game misconduct, suspension, and a total of 4 instances of 5 on 3 in all of 7 games played.


Is the fact that the Cap situation is tight coming into 2022/2023 a surprise to any of you?
Is the fact that the Leafs' defense corps is not young a surprise to any of you?
Was the Tavares signing a surprise to any of you?

Holy Overreacting Monday out here...

Are Calgary fans losing their minds screaming that they need to make changes up and down their line-up?
No, their team scored a lucky goal in OT instead of allowing a lucky goal.

Toronto fans behave so much like the DoPS that it's scary.
The result matters more than the underlying substance.

The team doesn't need to be blown up.
The team doesn't need any more time to build either.
Play that series 100 times and you likely get Toronto to win 50 times and Tampa to win 50 times.

Once again, when something is a coin-flip, Toronto gets the short end of the stick. Just like marginally questionable calls by officials, marginal suspensions that always lean to the heavy handed instead of the lenient.

The Leafs should keep the core intact as much as possible because they showed that they are not a step below the cup winners.

Having said that, if Toronto absolutely needs to move a big piece, then it has to be Nylander. There is just no other option.
I assume Kerfoot is gone and I won't shed a single tear for that loss, and if it were up to me, Engvall and Mikheyev would also go out the door.

Now, the financial situation will require some changes, but swapping out 4th line players is not as impactful as moving core players or firing the front office personnel.

Lost me at “Toronto fans”

That tells me you are not “one of us”

 

[Deebo]

People are using "blowing it up" as the gameplan for anyone who wants changes because it makes them look worse and makes it look like they are giving up on winning with this group.

The reality is most of us just want to try a different recipe - this one hasn't set right for many, many years now. Invest in goaltending and top pairing defencemen who won't be under siege against Kucherov types OR Cirelli type bangers.

I didn't even think too hard about what to call it when I said, "blow it up" camp. Revise it to your wording the "drastic change" camp if that makes it better for you.

 

[Apex Predator]

I didn't even think too hard about what to call it when I said, "blow it up" camp. Revise it to your wording the "drastic change" camp if that makes it better for you.

Why is trading one core piece considered such a bad idea? They can come out of it a better team.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Well, Friedman said try Marner at C. Which is an idea I like.

100%. One of the best moves we can make would be moving Tavares to the wing.

Bourne and Kyper talked about how you can't do that because JT is so good defensively...that line, despite good starts in the OZ, was our worst line for GA/60. Nylander was #1, Tavares #2.

A duo which takes up nearly 20% of the cap can't be our worst line for GA/60 with plenty of OZS.

Tavares to the wing, and trade Nylander to bring some depth to the 2nd and 3rd lines so we can match up properly against the TBays and Colorados of the league.

 

[justashadowof]

People are using "blowing it up" as the gameplan for anyone who wants changes because it makes them look worse and makes it look like they are giving up on winning with this group.

The reality is most of us just want to try a different recipe - this one hasn't set right for many, many years now. Invest in goaltending and top pairing defencemen who won't be under siege against Kucherov types OR Cirelli type bangers.

Of course that's what they're doing. It's rhetorical trickery to otherize a perfectly reasonable topic of discussion.

 

[Deebo]

Why is trading one core piece considered such a bad idea? They can come out of it a better team.

I didn't state a position on whether they should trade a core piece or not. If there's a trade that makes us better, do it. I don't care which players go in a trade that improves the team. However, I wouldn't want to go into an off season insisting one of them definitely has to go.



The post I was responding where I first said "blow it up camp" to was claiming that if you are on the side of making small changes or "running it back" you can get upset if/when they lose again and no one will look at what you said last year.

I was just saying that if you are on the other side, if/when they win next season, you can celebrate and no one will look at what you said last year either.

Then some other poster got held up on what I called the other side, rather than the actual point I was trying to make. This is where you joined the conversation.

And OP said I was trying to make it worse/make it look like they were giving up when I actually gave no thought to what I called the "camp".

 

[justashadowof]

It's amazing how conservative MLSE and its apologists get once you question their exalted plans. Suddenly discussing the subtraction of any one of the magic ingredients is some sort of true believer hockey heresy.

 

[rielledup]

The problem is that, you can’t just run it back. It hasn’t worked for 5/6 years with this core & 18 years overall as an organization. I agree with Hayes. You have to make a change to the team if the right deal is there or a better coach is available. Whether it’s a coach fired or a player is traded. Something has to make this team understand that you can’t be comfortable. Hayes’ Masai analogy was spot on. Masai, the off-season before they won the Championship was ruthless. He fired the coach that won coach of the year, he traded the best player on the team for a better star who performs in the playoffs. They were on their way to 60 wins but at the trade deadline he traded their young star Center for an older but veteran Marc Gasol. Masai was willing to do whatever it took to give himself and his staff the best possible roster.

The point being is something has to budge. Explore every possible way to get better.

Seems like you're basically saying if they can make a move that makes them better on paper they should do it, which they obviously should and nobody is arguing against. You aren't going to find a derozan for leonard trade in the NHL. Nobody is even going to trade you equal value for any of your core players. Hayes and Odog are basically talking about a Nylander for a 50-60 point player who's more physical kind of trade which carries big risk.

 

[TheRumble]

Seems like you're basically saying if they can make a move that makes them better on paper they should do it, which they obviously should and nobody is arguing against. You aren't going to find a derozan for leonard trade in the NHL. Nobody is even going to trade you equal value for any of your core players. Hayes and Odog are basically talking about a Nylander for a 50-60 point player who's more physical kind of trade which carries big risk.

Some of theese fantasy land trades don't even make the team better on paper.

HFBoards:

If we traded William Nylander for Max Domi and a 2nd

Then we trade Mitch Marner for Jacob Chychrun and a 1st

And we traded Tavares as a cap dump and signed Nazem Kadri

We would be better.

 

[pcruz]

Some of theese fantasy land trades don't even make the team better on paper.

HFBoards:

If we traded William Nylander for Max Domi and a 2nd

Then we trade Mitch Marner for Jacob Chychrun and a 1st

And we traded Tavares as a cap dump and signed Nazem Kadri

We would be better.

I'm going to reply to you because I agree with you here.

This is exactly what some people would believe.
It's also incredibly stupid, short sighted, and makes the team way worse than it was before

Therefore, this proposal is completely plausible.

Tinkering for the sake of tinkering is stupid.
Tinkering with the intention of improving, but doing so recklessly is also stupid.

Hayes and O'dog want noticeable improvement now. We all do.
But at times progress looks stagnant before bursting forward.
That's what this team looks like.
Building pressure because they are progressing and it's just not showing dividends.

Until it does and the team makes serious runs at the cup.

 

[francis246]

Seems like you're basically saying if they can make a move that makes them better on paper they should do it, which they obviously should and nobody is arguing against. You aren't going to find a derozan for leonard trade in the NHL. Nobody is even going to trade you equal value for any of your core players. Hayes and Odog are basically talking about a Nylander for a 50-60 point player who's more physical kind of trade which carries big risk.

Yup, for example I’m not saying I’d do it. But Mark Schiefele might want out of Winnipeg, Winnipeg needs goal scoring. I think Toronto could explore that deal.

Maybe Calgary retools and is open to moving Matthew Tkachuk.

There are a ton of guys in the NHL who can score goals but also have Jam and bite and bring a new compete level. Is it a risk? Yes but sometimes a little change is needed to make things work. If you’re scared to lose a trade then you have no business being a GM.

 

[francis246]

I'm going to reply to you because I agree with you here.

This is exactly what some people would believe.
It's also incredibly stupid, short sighted, and makes the team way worse than it was before

Therefore, this proposal is completely plausible.

Tinkering for the sake of tinkering is stupid.
Tinkering with the intention of improving, but doing so recklessly is also stupid.

Hayes and O'dog want noticeable improvement now. We all do.
But at times progress looks stagnant before bursting forward.
That's what this team looks like.
Building pressure because they are progressing and it's just not showing dividends.

Until it does and the team makes serious runs at the cup.

I don’t think anyone mentioned a trade like the ones the poster mentioned. But you know what, maybe Dubas should have made a play for a max domi at the deadline. I think that is my small gripe with Dubas, it’s almost like he’s scared to take risks at times. Blackwell was a great pick up but Paul and Domi went cheap

 

[Apex Predator]

I don’t think anyone mentioned a trade like the ones the poster mentioned. But you know what, maybe Dubas should have made a play for a max domi at the deadline. I think that is my small gripe with Dubas, it’s almost like he’s scared to take risks at times. Blackwell was a great pick up but Paul and Domi went cheap

he got burned with the Folingo trade so I can see him being hesitant about that. It is what it with that trade. Go back to the drawing board and give it another go.

 

[rielledup]

Yup, for example I’m not saying I’d do it. But Mark Schiefele might want out of Winnipeg, Winnipeg needs goal scoring. I think Toronto could explore that deal.

Maybe Calgary retools and is open to moving Matthew Tkachuk.

There are a ton of guys in the NHL who can score goals but also have Jam and bite and bring a new compete level. Is it a risk? Yes but sometimes a little change is needed to make things work. If you’re scared to lose a trade then you have no business being a GM.

Nobody would be against a nylander for tkachuk trade, that's not a risk.

 

[pcruz]

Did we or did we not acquire Giordano at the trade deadline?
He was our steadiest defenseman going into the playoffs and really helped improve the game of Liljigren.

If I give you $5, you can want to buy a Ferrari as much as anyone ever wanted anything in history, but you're not going to because you can't do so from a financial point.

Do you guys think that the cap goes away at the trade deadline or something?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Did we or did we not acquire Giordano at the trade deadline?
He was our steadiest defenseman going into the playoffs and really helped improve the game of Liljigren.

If I give you $5, you can want to buy a Ferrari as much as anyone ever wanted anything in history, but you're not going to because you can't do so from a financial point.

Do you guys think that the cap goes away at the trade deadline or something?

Who got us into a tough cap spot, again?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Blow it up, dammit!