Toronto Maple Leafs: Who Would Replace Kyle Dubas?

[Stephen]

If the Leafs flame out in the playoffs this spring, it would be emotionally satisfying to turn the page on this group's vision and move on from Dubas.

But operationally I think we might be better served with more continuity, re-sign Matthews, Marner, Nylander and the best chance might be to just have a business as usual approach with Dubas as GM. Move on from Tavares' current deal in 2 years, re-spend that Muzzin, Murray, Kerfoot money, promote Knies internally and roll into the next phase of contention.

I'm just not really sure what a new GM in a flat cap can really do until there's some wiggle room to spend. We're not rebuilding any time soon. Also, no to rookie GM's. We spent 5 years watching growing pains, we don't need another.

 

[Racer88]

Probably somebody worse.

Leafs were silly to leave this until now, and now we have to hope Dubas won't leave.

Seems likely he'll stay though. Seems like the type to want to finish what he's started.

Either way, this is an offseason discussion.

Dubas isn’t leaving this gig unless he gets shown the door. He has been given the keys to the kingdom and the vault and if he walked away he would be labeled a quitter and never get another job as GM

 

[Stephen]

The draft stuff as far as I heard, mostly Hunter but trading back etc was Dubas mostly.

Who the hell knows though right?

Either way, there was mess ups between Nonis and Lou coming on, Dubas can wear them as much as Hunter.

Hunter just wears them longer as his drafting clearly sucked and enough time has passed to be able to state it.

I was just being facetious, Marner was clearly a Hunter project as you can tell from articles from around that time due to their London connections.



Also, all the busts from 2015 to 2017 are blamed on Hunter anyway.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I was just being facetious, Marner was clearly a Hunter project as you can tell from articles from around that time due to their London connections.



Also, all the busts from 2015 to 2017 are blamed on Hunter anyway.

The busts for the most part can be laid at Hunter's feet.

Some of the trades were dumb, could have had Konecny lol.

 

[LeafEgo]

If the Leafs flame out in the playoffs this spring, it would be emotionally satisfying to turn the page on this group's vision and move on from Dubas.

But operationally I think we might be better served with more continuity, re-sign Matthews, Marner, Nylander and the best chance might be to just have a business as usual approach with Dubas as GM. Move on from Tavares' current deal in 2 years, re-spend that Muzzin, Murray, Kerfoot money, promote Knies internally and roll into the next phase of contention.

I'm just not really sure what a new GM in a flat cap can really do until there's some wiggle room to spend. We're not rebuilding any time soon. Also, no to rookie GM's. We spent 5 years watching growing pains, we don't need another.

GM'ing is more than just trading, signing, and drafting players. There is macro strategy and organizational culture to consider.

I thought there was no coming back after the Habs. Two years later there can't possibly be continuity with another first round exit.

 

[PromisedLand]

He also didn't draft Marner. Dubas did.

LMAO

Hunter drafted Marner

 

[Racer88]

I’m not sure who should be the GM next year, I’m still stuck in the comment by one poster here that this is a well balanced team.
lmao

 

[Dekes For Days]

Okay but under Dubas we've also won zero series, period.
That doesn't scream very successful team or favorite for a cup.

Yes, and that one little factoid has been repeated without any context ad nauseum.
But there's a lot more than that to be considered, and all of that screams the opposite.

I was just being facetious, Marner was clearly a Hunter project as you can tell from articles from around that time due to their London connections.

Hunter liking him =/= Hunter was the only person that liked him. The only person reported to be against the Marner pick was Babcock.

Hunter drafted Marner

Hunter and Dubas, as co-GMs, drafted Marner.

 

[hotpaws]

I initially applauded the Burke hire, he was given enough time to fail and you had to move on. The initial Kessel deal made me uneasy, he did do some outright fleecing trades but overall a failure.

The firing was weird, to go through the entire lockout and then fire the guy was weird.

i had no problem when they hired him but i wanted him fired the second i heard about the Kessel trade

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yes, and that one little factoid has been repeated without any context ad nauseum.
But there's a lot more than that to be considered, and all of that screams the opposite.

Hunter liking him =/= Hunter was the only person that liked him. The only person reported to be against the Marner pick was Babcock.

Hunter and Dubas, as co-GMs, drafted Marner.

What context is required? They've lost to some good teams and they've lost to some bad teams. They've never beaten a team under Dubas in a playoff series.

How else do you choose to measure playoff success?

i had no problem when they hired him but i wanted him fired the second i heard about the Kessel trade

I was apprehensive, seeing Seguin and Hamilton go high in the draft the following 2 years stung when we clearly need to rebuild.

 

[PromisedLand]

Interesting that with 34 and 88 up for renewal July 1st, the same day their NMC kicks in, they have chosen to keep their GM flying in the wind. No idea what their logic is. I mean this is the same guy that they would not allow Sakic to talk to and now they are risking the kid going to the highest bidder. Strange.

Shanahan bought the BS that was sold by dubas IMO. Shanahan thought he would revolutionize hockey by trying to win differently the way that hasn't been done in the NHL history and be the name talked about how he changed it all.

its now slapped him back on his face. The weirdest disconnect was when Shanahan went on a public platform talking about "young leaders giving discount" and then dubas went out and did the opposite.

Its a results driven business. Shanahan-Dubas era has been nothing but a complete failure IMO. Somethings gotta give. Leafs either make the ECF at least or it is time for a new front office and new direction. If that means another rebuild then so be it.

 

[PromisedLand]

How would you say Dubas’s performance as GM stacks up against Don Sweeney and Julian Brisebois? Curious because those are the teams we have to beat to actually accomplish anything.

IMO its not just the performance but team culture. Boston/Tampa team culture is way different than the Leafs. Over there team results and team cohesion matters more than individuals.

don't have to look far... boston had a pretty pedestrian 1st period; and starting in the 2nd period they put pastrnak on the 2nd line to change the look of their attack.

Team culture, cap allocation, roster construction and team composition is where GM's hockey acumen, foresight and aptitude matters. Results are there for everyone to see.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What context is required?

The teams they faced, the situations they experienced, how they played, how close the outcome was, why they lost, the changes we've had since then, etc.
And there's a lot more to evaluating which teams have a good chance to win than what teams won series in past playoffs.

How else do you choose to measure playoff success?

It's more about evaluating current playoff potential than measuring past playoff success.

 

[PromisedLand]

If Dubas leaves this fan base will still have a big divide. the only way to get the fans on the same page is win! Let’s hope it happens this year eitherwise it will be another year of back and forth between fans.

Don't agree. There are only a few vocal minority who just keep pumping dubas' tires all the time. Majority of the fanbase has had it. They want to see results or change in the front office.

The point is that when Dubas took over, 16, 34 and 88 were already Leafs.

When dubas took over Leafs had had their best season to date; had plenty of cap room; to change team composition and bolster the roster and position the team to have success.

Instead Leafs have not achieved much success. IMO Leafs are a failed experiment that a rookie was allowed to run

 

[Gabriel426]

Getting a new President, GM… just means the board got no confidence in Shanny and Co making the big trade to improve the team.
If they get knock out of first round, I find it hard that the core 5 will be a Leafs by season opener.
Everyone should be in play and all depends on the returning package.

Having said that, what if the team make it to the Conf Finals, what happens then?

To me, even if the current team made it past the first rounds the past few years, the goal is the win the Cup. Unless they win the Cup this playoffs, it will be 5 yrs of failures since they signed JT to boast the chance of winning the Cup. Should you still bring the core back?

 

[PromisedLand]

Didn't he also trade Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot and then we had to listen to Kadri = Kerfoot for a few years.

There were posts and posters here saying kerfoot is better than kadri. some of these posters are still in this thread defending dubas btw

 

[Gallagbi]

Getting a new President, GM… just means the board got no confidence in Shanny and Co making the big trade to improve the team.
If they get knock out of first round, I find it hard that the core 5 will be a Leafs by season opener.
Everyone should be in play and all depends on the returning package.

Having said that, what if the team make it to the Conf Finals, what happens then?

To me, even if the current team made it past the first rounds the past few years, the goal is the win the Cup. Unless they win the Cup this playoffs, it will be 5 yrs of failures since they signed JT to boast the chance of winning the Cup. Should you still bring the core back?

A round brings back the whole group IMO, especially if they lose to Boston who is having a ridiculous season.

Current regime is tied to the core IMO, that direction change window passed after the MTL loss. Asking them to move the core now is like firing the assistants and keeping the head coach

 

[Nineteen67]

Shanahan bought the BS that was sold by dubas IMO. Shanahan thought he would revolutionize hockey by trying to win differently the way that hasn't been done in the NHL history and be the name talked about how he changed it all.

its now slapped him back on his face. The weirdest disconnect was when Shanahan went on a public platform talking about "young leaders giving discount" and then dubas went out and did the opposite.

It’s a results driven business. Shanahan-Dubas era has been nothing but a complete failure IMO. Somethings gotta give. Leafs either make the ECF at least or it is time for a new front office and new direction. If that means another rebuild then so be it.

Win a round and then try and retool and become an eastern contender.

 

[Gabriel426]

There were posts and posters here saying kerfoot is better than kadri. some of these posters are still in this thread defending dubas btw

Kerfoot is better academically than Kadri. Lol

 

[Gabriel426]

A round brings back the whole group IMO, especially if they lose to Boston who is having a ridiculous season.

Current regime is tied to the core IMO, that direction change window passed after the MTL loss. Asking them to move the core now is like firing the assistants and keeping the head coach

Win around and then try and retool and become an eastern contender.

This is where I disagree with. Winning a round is nothing. I know that our boys have not done it for 6 straight years but it is nothing to be happy or be satisfy about. Half the teams in the playoffs make it pass the first round every year.

To me, it is really Cup final or bust. My opinions might change if they make it close in the Conf Finals.
But there is no way they are getting a pass bc they win a round. Even if that team is TB or Boston. In the beginning this Leafs team reminds me of the Wings in the 90s, they just always had tough matchups till they broke through. But now, they are the SJ Sharks, talented team but couldn’t win and best they did was a Cup Finals when their core are all close to retiring.

 

[PromisedLand]

Win around and then try and retool and become an eastern contender.

to be seen I guess. I am not sure re-tooling would work. both matthews and nylander are pending UFAs after this season with NTCs kicking in July 1st.

Marner's NTC also starts July 1st (same time as Willy, Matthews). Rielly has a full NTC for the first 5 years of his contract.

Its just such a shame that we couldn't even get past the 1st round with this core. I also don't expect Vasy to shit the bed like he did last playoffs. To be seen what becomes in the 1st round and how leafs goaltending holds.

I am really gonna lose my shit if people here start blaming goalies if leafs dont make it past the first round and absolve dubas. he is the one that signed these goalies one who has a injury history and the other who is a wildcard (sammy)

 

[WTFMAN99]

The teams they faced, the situations they experienced, how they played, how close the outcome was, why they lost, the changes we've had since then, etc.
And there's a lot more to evaluating which teams have a good chance to win than what teams won series in past playoffs.

It's more about evaluating current playoff potential than measuring past playoff success.

No one cares about how close things are.

You won or you didn't. black and white.

Everything else is bullshit to justify failure because nothing was actually achieved.

 

[PromisedLand]

I was just being facetious, Marner was clearly a Hunter project as you can tell from articles from around that time due to their London connections.



Also, all the busts from 2015 to 2017 are blamed on Hunter anyway.

Another player drafted by Hunter FYI

 

[Byron Bitz]

The point is that when Dubas took over, 16, 34 and 88 were already Leafs.

Don’t forget 44

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Stop! Leafs goin far this year.
I have no worries. Leafs have matured this season. As I've always said, like the blue jays young teams need time to grow, to face disappointment to face adversity, to accept a system. Only then are they ready to go for it.