Toronto Maple Leafs: Who Would Replace Kyle Dubas?

End of the day

People said he couldn't sign all our kids - he did. Not his fault the same season we finalize Matthews and Marner's deal we hit a pandemic and the cap goes flat their entire contracts.

People said he couldn't turn our bottom 5 D into top 5 D without trading one of the big 3 - He did.

People said all he likes are small skilled players. He has continuously gone out and gotten size and grit and the same folks now say those were dumb moves lol.

Dubas is a great GM in a bad situation. He inherited a team with historic franchise deals needed then hit a flat cap, in a division with a modern dynasty and one of the greatest cores of all time in the Bruins. Has there been failures along the way? of course no GM is perfect. But I think him today does things a bit differently than when he was fresh faced.

He is a very good GM now. I would want him to rebuild or retool our franchise if that is what happens and not some other old boys club idiot like Holland or any other idiots.

In reality, Dubas' biggest mistake in the minds of some here is not dealing franchise forwards who might be the GOAT's of our franchise during their early 20's because they didn't immediately figure out the playoffs. If they never do I don't see it as a mistake. The mistake would be watching Marner win the Smythe on another team and multiple cups and us saying what if, or Matthews winning his MVP's elsewhere.

Too many clowns in this fanbase
Well put, I agree completely. I would extend Dubas today without a second thought, best GM we've had in ages. Covid hit at the worst possible time for us, had it happened two years earlier or WE, we'd quite possibly have won the cup by now.
 
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Well put, I agree completely. I would extend Dubas today without a second thought, best GM we've had in ages. Covid hit at the worst possible time for us, had it happened two years earlier or WE, we'd quite possibly have won the cup by now.

We would have Hyman and who knows who else still here as well
 
End of the day

People said he couldn't sign all our kids - he did. Not his fault the same season we finalize Matthews and Marner's deal we hit a pandemic and the cap goes flat their entire contracts.

People said he couldn't turn our bottom 5 D into top 5 D without trading one of the big 3 - He did.

People said all he likes are small skilled players. He has continuously gone out and gotten size and grit and the same folks now say those were dumb moves lol.

Dubas is a great GM in a bad situation. He inherited a team with historic franchise deals needed then hit a flat cap, in a division with a modern dynasty and one of the greatest cores of all time in the Bruins. Has there been failures along the way? of course no GM is perfect. But I think him today does things a bit differently than when he was fresh faced.

He is a very good GM now. I would want him to rebuild or retool our franchise if that is what happens and not some other old boys club idiot like Holland or any other idiots.

In reality, Dubas' biggest mistake in the minds of some here is not dealing franchise forwards who might be the GOAT's of our franchise during their early 20's because they didn't immediately figure out the playoffs. If they never do I don't see it as a mistake. The mistake would be watching Marner win the Smythe on another team and multiple cups and us saying what if, or Matthews winning his MVP's elsewhere.

Too many clowns in this fanbase

Agreed - well put.

There have definitely been mistakes made by Dubas (Mrazek + dealing for injured Foligno + potentially giving Marner more than he should've imo) but during his tenure he's done far far far more good than he has bad.

I think in today's world of "what have you done for me lately" - people seem to forget just how bad the teams of the past were in reality. For years we couldn't find proper wings to play with Sundin. For years we had no proper centres to play with Kessel.

The team has been built extremely well and the way Dubas has dealt with players will come back to the Leafs in a good way.

I hope he doesn't get let go - it could end up being a huge mistake.
 
Agreed - well put.

There have definitely been mistakes made by Dubas (Mrazek + dealing for injured Foligno + potentially giving Marner more than he should've imo) but during his tenure he's done far far far more good than he has bad.

I think in today's world of "what have you done for me lately" - people seem to forget just how bad the teams of the past were in reality. For years we couldn't find proper wings to play with Sundin. For years we had no proper centres to play with Kessel.

The team has been built extremely well and the way Dubas has dealt with players will come back to the Leafs in a good way.

I hope he doesn't get let go - it could end up being a huge mistake.
Dubas is done bro
 
I dunno. This core has a problem with going to war
I dunno, how can you say that a team that gets to game 7, has no chance to win game 7? Do it over again, and maybe we win all 5 instead of losing. We just made a trade that should provide a big boost as well so I think there's reason for optimism.

It sucks that the two teams I fear the most, are the ones we probably have to play in the 1st two rounds but nothing to about that, it is what it is.
 
I know success hasn't been there yet but there is no one more capable and smart to lead this organization.
Agreed - well put.

There have definitely been mistakes made by Dubas (Mrazek + dealing for injured Foligno + potentially giving Marner more than he should've imo) but during his tenure he's done far far far more good than he has bad.

I think in today's world of "what have you done for me lately" - people seem to forget just how bad the teams of the past were in reality. For years we couldn't find proper wings to play with Sundin. For years we had no proper centres to play with Kessel.

The team has been built extremely well and the way Dubas has dealt with players will come back to the Leafs in a good way.

I hope he doesn't get let go - it could end up being a huge mistake.
built extremely well based on ? Regular season ?
And noone more capable ? wow
Being a GM. in Toronto is easy - you just have to look like you're competitive year to year but actual results are meaningless
 
He wasn't an assistant. He was co-GM.
What would be a weird take would be trying to argue that Dubas inherited somebody that was drafted when he was GM.
Your wrong, he was never a co-GM, he was a co-assistant GM with mark hunter. The marner pick was under Lou Lam’s watch… please get your facts right
 
The Leafs drafted Marner while both Dubas and Hunter were interim co-GMs. Dubas did not inherit Marner.
Interesting since Mark Hunter gets dumped on for his awful drafting such as the 2016 draft besides Matthews, specifically Korshakov pick with the first pick in the second round. Why does Dubas get to escape the bad draft picks while Hunter was here however Marner is Dubas pick (Hunter being co owner and GM of the London Knights where Marner played junior hockey). Some of you Dubas fan boys are so twisted it really broadlines on cult like behavior.
 
Interesting since Mark Hunter gets dumped on for his awful drafting such as the 2016 draft besides Matthews, specifically Korshakov pick with the first pick in the second round. Why does Dubas get to escape the bad draft picks while Hunter was here however Marner is Dubas pick (Hunter being co owner and GM of the London Knights where Marner played junior hockey). Some of you Dubas fan boys are so twisted it really broadlines on cult like behavior.
Which of Dubas' draft picks are bad and why?
 
Your wrong, he was never a co-GM, he was a co-assistant GM with mark hunter. The marner pick was under Lou Lam’s watch… please get your facts right
They were Co-gms between Nonis and Lou. Dubas was in charge of trades and Hunter was in charge of the draft.

Marner was drafted June 26th, 2015 and Lou was hired July 23, 2015. Get your facts straight.
 
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They were Co-gms between Nonis and Lou. Dubas was in charge of trades and Hunter was in charge of the draft.

Marner was drafted June 26th, 2015 and Lou was hired July 23, 2015. Get your facts straight.
Your right, I’m wrong, with that said and what started this is that if dubas was in charge of trades, he obviously gets zero credit on the marner pick then
 
Interesting since Mark Hunter gets dumped on for his awful drafting such as the 2016 draft besides Matthews, specifically Korshakov pick with the first pick in the second round. Why does Dubas get to escape the bad draft picks while Hunter was here however Marner is Dubas pick (Hunter being co owner and GM of the London Knights where Marner played junior hockey). Some of you Dubas fan boys are so twisted it really broadlines on cult like behavior.

I'll clear everything up. The 2015 draft was done by committee.

Hunter wanted Marner. Babcock wanted Hanifin.

Dubas wanted to move down in the draft. Here's video evidence:

- It's at the 40 second mark of the video.

CBJ gets a call from Toronto on the phone. They briefly discuss a trade and Jarmo turns it down.

The offer was if Arizona doesn't pick Hanifin - they picked Dylan Strome, Toronto would trade the 4th pick to Columbus in exchange for their 8th overall pick and all their seconds (they had two). Jarmo says he'd do it but he believed that Werenski was close enough in quality to Hanifin that it wasn't worth the exchange. The risk of course was that somebody else could have snagged Werenski before hand.

Trading down in the draft is a classic Dubas move, he's done it in almost every draft he's run. Instead he traded down from 24th (Konecny) later on in that draft.

As for who he wanted to pick at 8: I've heard he was high on Rantanen, Provorov who went 7th and Werenski.

If we picked Werenski 8th, we probably pick Aho instead of Dermott with our 2nd rounder as the team was split on them, this is something Babcock confirmed himself. The likely reason for Dermott over Aho is that the Leafs literally had zero defensive prospects at the time, not even low end ones.

My own theory here the alternate universe looks like this:

Leafs draft Werenski at 8.

They don't need trade down at 24 as they already have 3 second rounders from their initial trade. Konecny is the most likely outcome as they were light on forward prospects at the time too - Nylander was the only high end prospect in the system.

It's still a toss up who they pick between Aho and Dermott in the second round. I think having Werenski would make them lean more towards another forward in Aho.

So now the core looks like this: Nylander, Werenski, Konecny, Aho

Add Matthews to that the following season. Very different team. A bit more well balanced team for the Babcock years but it's not as explosive of an offense without Marner.
 
Your right, I’m wrong, with that said and what started this is that if dubas was in charge of trades, he obviously gets zero credit on the marner pick then
Hunter made the pick, Dubas was technically Co-gm when pick was made so not like he exactly inherited Marner either. Both things are true. Both sides of the argument are valid. But no one can sit here and say Dubas wouldn't have picked him. He's exactly the prototypical Dubas pick. Undersized, skilled forward with high hockey IQ. There's never been anything mentioned about Dubas wanting someone else. The only one against the pick was Babcock who wanted Hanifin.
 
Hunter made the pick, Dubas was technically Co-gm when pick was made so not like he exactly inherited Marner either. Both things are true. Both sides of the argument are valid. But no one can sit here and say Dubas wouldn't have picked him. He's exactly the prototypical Dubas pick. Undersized, skilled forward with high hockey IQ. There's never been anything mentioned about Dubas wanting someone else. The only one against the pick was Babcock who wanted Hanifin.
Ok, well whether dubas should get credit is up for debate, but even if given merit for it, he dished out horrible contracts to M&M. The caphits were too high for the term given out, I’d expect 7/8 yr deals at those caphits….I really dislike dubas as a GM, he will pay the ultimate price and not be renewed

It wasn't a take by Deeks for days though. He said that Hunter and Dubas were co- Gms,
Np, I had to fact check, dub was a co gm for the 2015 draft, I stand corrected
 
I get that, and it's not an unreasonable POV. There is another school of thought though that says that if you're going to judge Dubas, do it before the playoffs start. After all, at that point point his job is done and it's up to the players at that point.
You can't judge a GM before his exam. Blaming the players gets you nowhere. Imagine he explained this school of thought in a performance review?
 

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