Toronto Maple Leafs: Who Would Replace Kyle Dubas?

[Mess]

I doubt it. Management doesn't fall under the CBA.

Our current management does seem to fall under the CBA however as in Can't Beat Anyone" come playoff time.

Thus this thread discussion,

There was a time if you recall that management under contract was even available for trade or at least compensation for signing while under another teams contract.... Our Leafs actually paid a 3rd round pick to bring in GM Lou Lam and another 3rd round pick to bring in coach Mike Babcock.

The NHL soon ended this practice to the CBA, but that left me with the impression that management while not under any salary cap restrictions still might be under a teams property unless permission if given to approach that person.

Leafs defer compensatory draft picks for Babcock, Lamoriello​

Leafs defer compensatory draft picks for Babcock, Lamoriello

The Leafs hope to be higher in the standings this time next June and are thus waiting another year to deliver third round compensatory draft picks to the Red Wings and Devils for the respective signings of Mike Babcock and Lou Lamoriello.

With Wednesday the deadline to decide, the salary cap web site General Fanager reported the last-place club will hold its 2016 third rounder one more year, a prudent move as the pick would have allowed Detroit to lead off the round. Having twice deferred, the Leafs have no choice now but to give Detroit its third in 2017, but are counting on escaping 30th to push the pick further down in that round. The Leafs are also waiting a year to give New Jersey its third rounder, due in 2018, after signing its one-time general manager.

Link: Leafs defer compensatory draft picks for Babcock, Lamoriello

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yup. Depth and the experiments like Kerfoot have gone on way too long.

I whole heartedly disagreed with the Rielly renewal as well. His time away this season really proved what this team can do defensively without him and it pissed me off even more. Leafs really could have found some proper depth for that 7 mill. Saying that Timmins wasn't in the organization and Sandman and Lilly weren't quite there yet so I can kind of understand. But Lilly and Sandman were close.

I would have dealt Rielly for some assets and the cap space.

Rielly played great for us in the playoffs. Maybe it'll turn out to be a bad signing but no reason to say that at this point, not yet anyway. He signed for less than he could get on the open market, cap's gonna go up, he's going to have to drop off big time for that contract to look bad a few years from now. JMHO.

 

[Twine Tickler]

So if we lose to Tampa again making him 5/5 in first round exits, what would you do with Kyle ??

The short answer to this question is extend him.

The long answer and rationale to that answer is because I feel like his reasoning to run it back once again was completely valid. I know the end result last season was the same as the years prior, but the way we got there was anything but. IMO the biggest gamble Kyle took was running it back after losing to MTL in 2020-21. This was the lowest point in this core's existence. The height of public doubt. Kyle put his career, reputation, and NHL livelihood on the line by running that core back for the 2021-22 season. The team went onward to accrue a franchise record 115 pts, and despite all of that, they still had to face the B2B cup champs in round 1. Now even though the end result was the same as the years prior (1st round out) the way the boys played was categorically different. They went toe to toe with one of the best teams in NHL history and if not for a bounce here, a bounce there, or even remotely adequate officiating in the 3rd period of game 6 we would have advanced. Most importantly they showed a performance in series clinching games 6 & 7 that they can be absolutely proud of. For the first time ever. Progress

So to some that end result made Kyle's decision to run it back a failure. But to me, that proved he made the right decision. Running it back this season was an absolute no brainer.

Regardless of the outcome this season I think Kyle deserves to have a chance to make any and all adjustments he see's fit going forward. He's done a very good job at maintaining a level head despite the manic nature of our fanbase and media.

That said, I am no fool. If they do lose again in the first round, I do expect him to be let go. I won't agree with the decision, but I will accept it and move onward.

 

[francis246]

Yup. Depth and the experiments like Kerfoot have gone on way too long.

I whole heartedly disagreed with the Rielly renewal as well. His time away this season really proved what this team can do defensively without him and it pissed me off even more. Leafs really could have found some proper depth for that 7 mill. Saying that Timmins wasn't in the organization and Sandman and Lilly weren't quite there yet so I can kind of understand. But Lilly and Sandman were close.

I would have dealt Rielly for some assets and the cap space.

No his time away proved that our goal tending was stellar during that stretch. We were giving up a ton of shots against and still finding ways to win. This d core with out Rielly would not be good.

Letting a former 5th overall pick, 70+ point defenseman walk for nothing would have also been really rough. This whole trade Rielly narrative is dumb and unfounded.

Should we have let Rielly walk and then over pay for a worse but maybe slightly cheaper defenseman through UFA?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Only in Toronto would some want to keep a GM who has lost in thei first round...... I've lost count. A team taht even Shanny has said lacks killer instinct, that don't stick up for eachother, that don't have the desire or the ability to compete in the playoffs. Too loyal, too interested in players "caring" (show it on the ice) and too set in his ways. Keefe isn't a good coach either but Dubas would have him the hall of fame

 

[All Mod Cons]

Only in Toronto would some want to keep a GM who has lost in thei first round...... I've lost count. A team taht even Shanny has said lacks killer instinct, that don't stick up for eachother, that don't have the desire or the ability to compete in the playoffs. Too loyal, too interested in players "caring" (show it on the ice) and too set in his ways. Keefe isn't a good coach either but Dubas would have him the hall of fame

I'm actually at the point now where I've practically given up hope for a Cup. A series win or two would be cool. I'd like to see that.

At the same time, part of me just wants to see them run it back for the next decade. Like to the point where the whole sporting world does documentaries on it. When it becomes really, really awkward, I want to see them run it back again. I just want to see how long they can just keep doing it.

When Tavares retires, I want them to coax him out of retirement and then run it back.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm actually at the point now where I've practically given up hope for a Cup. A series win or two would be cool. I'd like to see that.

At the same time, part of me just wants to see them run it back for the next decade. Like to the point where the whole sporting world does documentaries on it. When it becomes really, really awkward, I want to see them run it back again. I just want to see how long they can just keep doing it.

When Tavares retires, I want them to coax him out of retirement and then run it back.

LMAO that would get pretty sick at some point. Seriously though, I wonder what the odds are of Dubas getting a new contract if we lose again in the 1st round? I imagine they're pretty slim, I'd say less than 10% but I guess you never know. Hopefully they win at least 1 round and look great while doing it so he gets renewed. If they do lose and hire someone else, all I can say is that I hope they hire someone good, the GM's over the last 50 years or so have absolutely sucked as a whole and the team on the ice has reflected that quite accurately.

 

[francis246]

LMAO that would get pretty sick at some point. Seriously though, I wonder what the odds are of Dubas getting a new contract if we lose again in the 1st round? I imagine they're pretty slim, I'd say less than 10% but I guess you never know. Hopefully they win at least 1 round and look great while doing it so he gets renewed. If they do lose and hire someone else, all I can say is that I hope they hire someone good, the GM's over the last 50 years or so have absolutely sucked as a whole and the team on the ice has reflected that quite accurately.

What would be amazing entertainment is that if at the end of it Dubas just decided to move on even if there was a contract extension offered. We don’t see enough people bring up that scenario. It’s pretty plausible, though if we lose in the first round I don’t see how he would get an extension.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What would be amazing entertainment is that if at the end of it Dubas just decided to move on even if there was a contract extension offered. We don’t see enough people bring up that scenario. It’s pretty plausible, though if we lose in the first round I don’t see how he would get an extension.

I'd be surprised if that happened myself. Do that and you're walking away from a job that's not completed, that suggests a loser mentality and that doesn't seem like Dubas. Also, win in Toronto and you're immortal, that's an opportunity no other place can give you, how do you say no to that?

That's one reason why I don't see Matthews leaving either. Of course he could leave in theory, but the fact that so many people would label him a wuss and a coward if he left with nothing but 1st round exits on his playoff resume is motivation to stay, not leave. That's the way I see it anyway, I know so many people keep asking why would he stay with a team that never wins but the thing is, the fact that we haven't won yet is just as much on him as anyone else.

If these guys don't care about their legacy, that's one thing. But if they do, how can they possibly leave?

 

[ACC1224]

What would be amazing entertainment is that if at the end of it Dubas just decided to move on even if there was a contract extension offered. We don’t see enough people bring up that scenario. It’s pretty plausible, though if we lose in the first round I don’t see how he would get an extension.

Definately entertaining but can't see it happening. He won't walk away from a dream job.
Win or lose Dubas gets extended, IMO, very little chance he is canned. Wouldn't be surprised if his extension is already agreed upon.
A loss and Keefe is the fall guy.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Definately entertaining but can't see it happening. He won't walk away from a dream job.
Win or lose Dubas gets extended, IMO, very little chance he is canned. Wouldn't be surprised if his extension is already agreed upon.
A loss and Keefe is the fall guy.

Even if that was true why didn't Shanahan give Dubas his new contract before the season started, instead of telling him no extension is coming for now.

Toronto Maple Leafs Kyle Dubas Brendan Shanahan | TSN

Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas said Wednesday he was informed by president Brendan Shanahan this summer that no contract extension was coming at this point in time.

www.tsn.ca

 

[francis246]

I'd be surprised if that happened myself. Do that and you're walking away from a job that's not completed, that suggests a loser mentality and that doesn't seem like Dubas. Also, win in Toronto and you're immortal, that's an opportunity no other place can give you, how do you say no to that?

That's one reason why I don't see Matthews leaving either. Of course he could leave in theory, but the fact that so many people would label him a wuss and a coward if he left with nothing but 1st round exits on his playoff resume is motivation to stay, not leave. That's the way I see it anyway, I know so many people keep asking why would he stay with a team that never wins but the thing is, the fact that we haven't won yet is just as much on him as anyone else.

If these guys don't care about their legacy, that's one thing. But if they do, how can they possibly leave?

I could see it happening maybe if Ken Holland gets canned. But that’s the only scenario where I think he consider it. But I don’t think it’s impossible, people leave situations all the time.

 

[ACC1224]

Even if that was true why didn't Shanahan give Dubas his new contract before the season started, instead of telling him no extension is coming for now.

Toronto Maple Leafs Kyle Dubas Brendan Shanahan | TSN

Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas said Wednesday he was informed by president Brendan Shanahan this summer that no contract extension was coming at this point in time.

www.tsn.ca

Even if what was true?

 

[All Mod Cons]

What would be amazing entertainment is that if at the end of it Dubas just decided to move on even if there was a contract extension offered. We don’t see enough people bring up that scenario. It’s pretty plausible, though if we lose in the first round I don’t see how he would get an extension.

That would be amazing. Especially if he went to the Sens. I can't stand the Sens.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Even if what was true?

If Dubas was going to get a new contract no matter if the Leafs win or lose in the first round, why doesn't Shanahan make it official by announcing it?

 

[All Mod Cons]

If Dubas was going to get a new contract no matter if the Leafs win or lose in the first round, why doesn't Shanahan make it official by announcing it?

Pushing the shit storm down the road? If we actually win a series, then it's an easy peasy announcement.

If we lose yet again, announcement in the summer months is much easier when no one gives a f*** because it cottage time.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Pushing the shit storm down the road? If we actually win a series, then it's an easy peasy announcement.

If we lose yet again, announcement in the summer months is much easier when no one gives a f*** because it cottage time.

The problem with that type of thinking is needing to have a GM before the draft and when free agency starts on July 1, 2023.

Also, July 1, 2023, is the first day possible for Auston Matthews and William Nylander to sign contract extensions, before they could become UFA's on July 1, 2024. If a Matthews extension was to be announced that day or very soon after that, they would need a GM no matter if it's Dubas or someone else to work on it ahead of time.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The problem with that type of thinking is needing to have a GM before the draft and when free agency starts on July 1, 2023.

Also, July 1, 2023, is the first day possible for Auston Matthews and William Nylander to sign contract extensions, before they could become UFA's on July 1, 2024. If a Matthews extension was to be announced that day or very soon after that, they would need a GM no matter if it's Dubas or someone else to work on it ahead of time.

Oh I'm under the impression that Kyle does actually have a contract. I think they just haven't announced it. I can't see MLSE actually moving on from Dubas. He'll be here for ages.

It's always mentioned on here how things are never ever leaked. I think this is another example.

We'll keep going through this for more seasons yet imo.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Extend him. See how long it goes on for.

It is not only up to the team. Dubas can walk on his own. The only reason the team would fire him after the season because they want someone as GM before the draft. Otherwise, the team doesn't have to do anything. His contract is up.

 

[Gabriel426]

Like I said before maybe some Leafs fans who defend Dubas no matter what, would have been disappointed if he had left Toronto for whatever job Colorado was interviewing him for.

You're right that Hunter wasn't looking for a job anywhere but Toronto, I was just wondering why no other teams requested to interview him the way Colorado requested to interview Dubas.

It could also be a ploy Dubas set up to see if he can be the next GM of the Leafs or it is Leafs PR who told Dubas to get interviewed by the Avs in order to get the medias know Dubas is a hot commodity.

Or it could just be that Avs did due diligence on their candidates and directions of the Club and want to see Dubas’s directions-more analytical.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It could also be a ploy Dubas set up to see if he can be the next GM of the Leafs or it is Leafs PR who told Dubas to get interviewed by the Avs in order to get the medias know Dubas is a hot commodity.

Or it could just be that Avs did due diligence on their candidates and directions of the Club and want to see Dubas’s directions-more analytical.

I honestly don't know the answer to that.

All I know is the Avalanche requested permission to interview him in 2017 a short time after the Leafs were eliminated from the playoffs by the Capitals.

Report: Avalanche get permission to speak with Leafs assistant GM Dubas

Interesting ...

nhl.nbcsports.com

There was even this tweet from Travis Yost saying the Avalanche should hire him soon or someone will shortly after.

 

[Gabriel426]

Hard questions, no easy answers. Re. the bolded though, is it Dubas that needs to figure out how to win? Or is it the players? I'm not so sure that there is any way for Dubas to see in advance that the team is good until game 7, and then they fold. I mean that's not what happened last year but it is what happened the 3 years previous (and in period 3 of game 7 the year before that).

I am not saying can Dubas see in advance but Dubas had this core for more than a few seasons now.
Dubas is betting on the core to win but that had not happen. I just dont see how Dubas cannot be at fault since he is the one who made the bet. He made this bet on them based on his stats, his intuitions, his exp....but so far he has been wrong. It is true that Dubas or any GMs had no control when the players underperformed but Dubas and the GMs did choose them. Like when I bet on horses or sports games, I can't control the performance of horses or players, can I go to the betting site and ask for a refund bc the horses and players I picked didnt perform as expected?

As I mentioned earlier, this is Dubas's team inside and out. There is no one contract on the team that Dubas didn't sign. IF he thinks any players is not the right mix, Dubas would have traded him for another player.

For all we know, maybe a new GM will do the exact same thing as Dubas but results might be different bc of a different voice. Moving on from Dubas doesnt mean lets tank and rebuild but rather turning a page and moving forward.

 

[ToneDog]

Oh I'm under the impression that Kyle does actually have a contract. I think they just haven't announced it. I can't see MLSE actually moving on from Dubas. He'll be here for ages.

It's always mentioned on here how things are never ever leaked. I think this is another example.

We'll keep going through this for more seasons yet imo.

If he did have a deal, why not announce it and put an end to the discussion? Afterall they are on pace for 110 points.

Three options:

1. Announce it today or prior to playoffs
2. Announce it after the playoffs after winning at least a round
3. Announce it after the playoffs after losing in round #1

To me the 3rd option makes the least amount of sense.

 

[ACC1224]

If Dubas was going to get a new contract no matter if the Leafs win or lose in the first round, why doesn't Shanahan make it official by announcing it?

No need to announce anything now. It would serve no purpose other than to rile up a port

Pushing the shit storm down the road? If we actually win a series, then it's an easy peasy announcement.

If we lose yet again, announcement in the summer months is much easier when no one gives a f*** because it cottage time.

Bingo

 

[rocketman588]

What would be amazing entertainment is that if at the end of it Dubas just decided to move on even if there was a contract extension offered. We don’t see enough people bring up that scenario. It’s pretty plausible, though if we lose in the first round I don’t see how he would get an extension.

He's at a place that invests the most into hockey ops of any team in the world. If he wants to leave good for him I guess