Toronto Maple Leafs: Who Would Replace Kyle Dubas?

[LeafsNation75]

MM is a great talent but what if he hogs the ice time even if he is abit too tired to play PK, PP and even strength. Mainly bc he wants his critics to shut up about his contract and that he is the only 10.5mil plus player to kill PK in the Leafs and might even be the League too.

I'm only asking this because I can't remember, and I think the answer is no. During Marner's first three seasons with the Leafs when he was playing on his ELC, did he ever play on the Leafs PK or did that only start to happen once Sheldon Keefe replaced Mike Babcock?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm only asking this because I can't remember, and I think the answer is no. During Marner's first three seasons with the Leafs when he was playing on his ELC, did he ever play on the Leafs PK or did that only start to happen once Sheldon Keefe replaced Mike Babcock?

Marner started PKing in 2018-2019, the 3rd year of his ELC.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm only asking this because I can't remember, and I think the answer is no. During Marner's first three seasons with the Leafs when he was playing on his ELC, did he ever play on the Leafs PK or did that only start to happen once Sheldon Keefe replaced Mike Babcock?

Bro, pls read my post again, I was making example if JT is that, if MM is that or if AM is that… I was making that up as examples that none of us really know what’s going on behind the doors.

To you question, I think MM did some PK when JT came bc Leo left that year and Babs used him for a bit, if I remembered correctly.

 

[francis246]

Dubas is going to have a line of teams offering him various jobs?

gotta love hf leafs.

Like I said I’m not a Dubas lover, I rather us have another GM. But yes if Dubas is available he will have teams that will offer him a job. Do you understand what various jobs means? Maybe it’s not a GM job but he’ll be able to land some sort of position in a front office easily. Whether that’s director of player personnel, senior advisor, GM, AGM, President, Vice President of Hockey Ops, Director of Scouting. I believe Dubas has filled various roles within his time with the Maple Leafs so you never know what would be available to him.

 

[francis246]

On the balance, do you think the Toronto Maple Leafs will have more options, or do you think Kyle Dubas as an individual will have more options?

Obviously the leafs will have more options. It’s not really comparable. There are only 30 NHL teams that can offer Dubas a job. There are thousands of people who want to work for any NHL team.

But what I’m saying is Dubas will be highly sought after. It may not be a GM role but people will want him in their front office in some capacity.

That’s not what Dubas said publicly in answer to a question about his contract status. He said that he went to Shanahan last off season and said he wanted to discuss a new contract and Shanny told him that they wouldn’t consider it until after this season. Take it for what it’s worth but the implications seem pretty clear that they need some playoff success before they’ll extend him. I’m guessing Shanahan will be shown the door too if they flame out in the first round.

Shannan just signed an extension last year no? He isn’t getting canned. But I can see Dubas not getting that extension if we fail to make the playoffs.

 

[francis246]

I don't know if you can make the same comparison, but what you said reminded me of when Alex Anthopoulos left the Blue Jays after they made the ALCS in 2015, even though he was offered a new contract to remain their General Manager.

Yup, AA left because he did not want to work under the president at the time. And look what happened to AA, he went to a smaller market and ended up winning his championship. I’m pretty sure the Blue Jays financial budget was way higher than Atlanta’s. Working for the Toronto Maple Leafs is a huge honour. It’s probably amazing but it isn’t the end all be all.

I find it funny that people think Dubas wouldn’t explore all his options, why wouldn’t he? Who knows if there’s a better scenario out there for him and his family. Or even professionally maybe he himself would like a new challenge. It’s not always about fame and glory.

Another example where Toronto benefitted was, Masai Ujiri had just made it to the conference finals with Denver, was offered a contract extension and left to come to Toronto. Denver was a great team and had the pieces but Ujiri wanted a new challenge and came and rebuilt the Raptors and got his championship and got promoted from
GM to President. I’m not sure if it happens much in Hockey. But if there’s any executive I can see making a ballsy move like that it’s Dubas.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

If Dubas doesn't come back they need to clean house, including Shanahan, Pridham, and any of the other Dubasites.

Dubas has done a good job at eliminating all the internal competition, which means they will likely be looking at someone outside the organization.

I'm not sure about GM anymore now that Joyce has been fired, but for coach I would be looking pretty hard at Brunette.

 

[francis246]

If Dubas doesn't come back they need to clean house, including Shanahan, Pridham, and any of the other Dubasites.

Dubas has done a good job at eliminating all the internal competition, which means they will likely be looking at someone outside the organization.

I'm not sure about GM anymore now that Joyce has been fired, but for coach I would be looking pretty hard at Brunette.

Didn’t Brunette just get hit with a DUI? I’m not sure what his availability would be following that.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Didn’t Brunette just get hit with a DUI? I’m not sure what his availability would be following that.

Keefe has done much worse.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Even though Anthopoulos is not from Toronto and is from Montreal, he was still a Canadian GM of the Blue Jays and I remember a lot of fans were upset when he left.

Plus, unlike Dubas at least he had postseason success in Toronto, even if it was for 1 year.

JFJ Was responsible for making the Rask for Raycroft trade. Say what you want about the bad moves Dubas has done like trading a 1st round pick for Nick Foligno, none will ever come as close to that.

Still, winning the World Series in Toronto doesn't come close to winning the cup.

I hated the Foligno trade at the time but after a while I stopped complaining and I could always understand the thinking behind the trade. I mean first of all, he got injured but I think we can assume Dubas did due diligence and thus can't be held responsible for that. And while I hate high priced rentals in principle, the only time I would consider them is when you are one of the top favorites to go all the way and think that one piece might put you over the top. Some people will laugh at that but considering we had such an easy path to the final 4, we had a much better chance at the cup then we do when we might have to beat 4 of the top 5 teams to win. So yeah it didn't work out, but the fact that that was the only time he has traded a 1st for a rental and that he did it in that one year when doing so made more sense than during any other year tells me that he's thinking along the right lines.

I think this summer if they failed to advanced to Cup Finals(my opinion) but more like Conf Finals, should be it for the current Leafs era, calls it Shannyera, Dubasera…., it doesn’t matter bc it fails BIG time since it is by far the most talented Leafs assembled.

As to who to change, I really don’t know, as I don’t think any of us here get to see the players behind the scene.

For example, JT is a great leader on the ice and put in the efforts off the ice but he might be someone who can’t wait to leave the dressing room after each home games and rarely show up for optional practice in order to spend more time with his family. There is nothing wrong with that but can someone like that set good example in terms of asking others to put in the extra efforts on and off the ice?
MM is a great talent but what if he hogs the ice time even if he is abit too tired to play PK, PP and even strength. Mainly bc he wants his critics to shut up about his contract and that he is the only 10.5mil plus player to kill PK in the Leafs and might even be the League too.
AM can score like no other, but what if he is afraid of injuries and will not go in 100% but only 95%, we might not notice it bc he is scoring but that extra 5% might be winning and losing the series.

Or the guys are just too scare when it comes to elimination games due to past failures.

I still remember the moment I became a fan of CR7, he was such a punk kid plying for ManUtd, too corky…but it was a penalty shootout in the Euros and he was assigned to take the 5th kick. When he was stepping to take the kick, you can see the confidence he had and the ‘I got this’ look. And boom he powered his shot and Portugal advanced to the next round. I still have yet to seen that ‘I got this’ look from our boys during elimination games, hopefully that changes. But at the same time, they just might not have it in them, we will find out in a few months.

Hard to draw the line at winning two rounds, for me it depends a bit on how it happens. Let's say they crush TB 4-1, then lose in 7 to Boston battling hard all the way, then Boston goes on to win the cup. Hard to fire anyone at that point.

The rest of your post I think shows how hard it is to put your finger on what need to change. And that's why it's critical that if Dubas is replaced, we choose the next guy wisely. And perhaps it also means that we really do need to replace Dubas if we don't have success this season because if he can't figure it out, we need to let someone else try.

As far as CR7 yeah I completely agree. I haven't seen "that look" either and until we do, I don't see us winning the cup despite all our talent. My dream is that one day (and why not in game 1 of the playoffs), Matthews comes out and punches someone in the head, or elbows someone in the face, anything along those lines and then gives that look. That's the sort of thing that can lift the entire team up, bring everyone together and then watch out.

A guy can dream.

 

[Apex Predator]

I think this summer if they failed to advanced to Cup Finals(my opinion) but more like Conf Finals, should be it for the current Leafs era, calls it Shannyera, Dubasera…., it doesn’t matter bc it fails BIG time since it is by far the most talented Leafs assembled.

As to who to change, I really don’t know, as I don’t think any of us here get to see the players behind the scene.

For example, JT is a great leader on the ice and put in the efforts off the ice but he might be someone who can’t wait to leave the dressing room after each home games and rarely show up for optional practice in order to spend more time with his family. There is nothing wrong with that but can someone like that set good example in terms of asking others to put in the extra efforts on and off the ice?
MM is a great talent but what if he hogs the ice time even if he is abit too tired to play PK, PP and even strength. Mainly bc he wants his critics to shut up about his contract and that he is the only 10.5mil plus player to kill PK in the Leafs and might even be the League too.
AM can score like no other, but what if he is afraid of injuries and will not go in 100% but only 95%, we might not notice it bc he is scoring but that extra 5% might be winning and losing the series.

Or the guys are just too scare when it comes to elimination games due to past failures.

I still remember the moment I became a fan of CR7, he was such a punk kid plying for ManUtd, too corky…but it was a penalty shootout in the Euros and he was assigned to take the 5th kick. When he was stepping to take the kick, you can see the confidence he had and the ‘I got this’ look. And boom he powered his shot and Portugal advanced to the next round. I still have yet to seen that ‘I got this’ look from our boys during elimination games, hopefully that changes. But at the same time, they just might not have it in them, we will find out in a few months.

Which Euro was this? Was it euro 2016 against Poland?

 

[francis246]

Still, winning the World Series in Toronto doesn't come close to winning the cup.

I hated the Foligno trade at the time but after a while I stopped complaining and I could always understand the thinking behind the trade. I mean first of all, he got injured but I think we can assume Dubas did due diligence and thus can't be held responsible for that. And while I hate high priced rentals in principle, the only time I would consider them is when you are one of the top favorites to go all the way and think that one piece might put you over the top. Some people will laugh at that but considering we had such an easy path to the final 4, we had a much better chance at the cup then we do when we might have to beat 4 of the top 5 teams to win. So yeah it didn't work out, but the fact that that was the only time he has traded a 1st for a rental and that he did it in that one year when doing so made more sense than during any other year tells me that he's thinking along the right lines.


Hard to draw the line at winning two rounds, for me it depends a bit on how it happens. Let's say they crush TB 4-1, then lose in 7 to Boston battling hard all the way, then Boston goes on to win the cup. Hard to fire anyone at that point.

The rest of your post I think shows how hard it is to put your finger on what need to change. And that's why it's critical that if Dubas is replaced, we choose the next guy wisely. And perhaps it also means that we really do need to replace Dubas if we don't have success this season because if he can't figure it out, we need to let someone else try.

As far as CR7 yeah I completely agree. I haven't seen "that look" either and until we do, I don't see us winning the cup despite all our talent. My dream is that one day (and why not in game 1 of the playoffs), Matthews comes out and punches someone in the head, or elbows someone in the face, anything along those lines and then gives that look. That's the sort of thing that can lift the entire team up, bring everyone together and then watch out.

A guy can dream.

“Winning the World Series doesn’t come close to winning the Stanley Cup” what does that even mean? Winning a championship is winning a championship. The leafs winning the championship will be no bigger than the raptors championship win. In this city people kind of get behind any winning team! I think right across the board if any exec or player wins a championship here they are on God level and will be revered

 

[Gary Nylund]

“Winning the World Series doesn’t come close to winning the Stanley Cup” what does that even mean? Winning a championship is winning a championship. The leafs winning the championship will be no bigger than the raptors championship win. In this city people kind of get behind any winning team! I think right across the board if any exec or player wins a championship here they are on God level and will be revered

I should have said doesn't come close to winning the cup in Toronto.

Winning the title in hockey would be bigger than winning it in basketball and much bigger than winning it in baseball. JMHO.

 

[rocketman588]

Yup, AA left because he did not want to work under the president at the time. And look what happened to AA, he went to a smaller market and ended up winning his championship. I’m pretty sure the Blue Jays financial budget was way higher than Atlanta’s. Working for the Toronto Maple Leafs is a huge honour. It’s probably amazing but it isn’t the end all be all.

I find it funny that people think Dubas wouldn’t explore all his options, why wouldn’t he? Who knows if there’s a better scenario out there for him and his family. Or even professionally maybe he himself would like a new challenge. It’s not always about fame and glory.

Another example where Toronto benefitted was, Masai Ujiri had just made it to the conference finals with Denver, was offered a contract extension and left to come to Toronto. Denver was a great team and had the pieces but Ujiri wanted a new challenge and came and rebuilt the Raptors and got his championship and got promoted from
GM to President. I’m not sure if it happens much in Hockey. But if there’s any executive I can see making a ballsy move like that it’s Dubas.

Atlanta is a significantly bigger baseball market with a bigger bank roll

He was also an AGM for a bit before he even got that gig

 

[francis246]

I should have said doesn't come close to winning the cup in Toronto.

Winning the title in hockey would be bigger than winning it in basketball and much bigger than winning it in baseball. JMHO.

How does one measure that? The recent raptors championship was huge in Toronto. I was down there myself right in Nathan Phillips square. I don’t really buy that. I think it would probably be on par. I think the same business that we’re clamouring over Kawhi, Lowry, Masai would be doing the same for the Leafs. Whatever access and glory the Raptors got for their win would be the exact same for the Leafs.

The other sports in my opinion have caught up to popularity with the Leafs. My brother currently works in the Blue Jays Organization and the growth their fan base has seen in the recent years is incredible.

 

[BertCorbeau]

If Dubas doesn't come back they need to clean house, including Shanahan, Pridham, and any of the other Dubasites.

This is an awful generalization… despite Dubas’ failures doesn’t mean all of the support staff are bad at their job. Pridham has been masterful at maneuvering the cap situation, for example

 

[francis246]

Atlanta is a significantly bigger baseball market with a bigger bank roll

He was also an AGM for a bit before he even got that gig

Toronto has a bigger payroll heading into the the 2023 season.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How does one measure that? The recent raptors championship was huge in Toronto. I was down there myself right in Nathan Phillips square. I don’t really buy that. I think it would probably be on par. I think the same business that we’re clamouring over Kawhi, Lowry, Masai would be doing the same for the Leafs. Whatever access and glory the Raptors got for their win would be the exact same for the Leafs.

The other sports in my opinion have caught up to popularity with the Leafs. My brother currently works in the Blue Jays Organization and the growth their fan base has seen in the recent years is incredible.

I don't think it can be measured, it's just my opinion. As time goes by the other sports will catch up but for now, I think there are still enough Leaf fans living that have waited for success for longer than our MLB and NBA franchises have been in existence and if we win this spring, it will be like the dam burst with all the emotions that come pouring out and the partying will make the Raptors win look like a calm walk in the park. If we fail for another couple of decades, many like myself won't be around anymore and it will be different but for now, I think there's still a tremendous number of Leaf fans waiting to party.

 

[Gabriel426]

Which Euro was this? Was it euro 2016 against Poland?

Euro 2004 against England

 

[Racer88]

This is an awful generalization… despite Dubas’ failures doesn’t mean all of the support staff are bad at their job. Pridham has been masterful at maneuvering the cap situation, for example

Pridham I would keep. Anyone that can keep the Leafs cap compliant while Dubas spent cap like a drunken sailer on shore leave is good at his job

 

[Apex Predator]

Euro 2004 against England

Interesting that early in his career! I was trying to think which one becuase I didn’t think it was euro 2004.

 

[Gabriel426]

Interesting that early in his career! I was trying to think which one becuase I didn’t think it was euro 2004.

It was early. Think he just played his first season at ManUtd. He was just a show off back then and Rooney was miles better. I did made a mistake earlier mentioning he took the 5th kick, he actually took the 4th kick and it was against England in the quarter finals. He then scored against Holland in the Semi Finals.

 

[PromisedLand]

Like I said I’m not a Dubas lover, I rather us have another GM. But yes if Dubas is available he will have teams that will offer him a job. Do you understand what various jobs means? Maybe it’s not a GM job but he’ll be able to land some sort of position in a front office easily. Whether that’s director of player personnel, senior advisor, GM, AGM, President, Vice President of Hockey Ops, Director of Scouting. I believe Dubas has filled various roles within his time with the Maple Leafs so you never know what would be available to him.

Dubas knows how to BS well. He should find himself a job in communications or marketing or something

 

[geo25]

I'd be surprised if that happened myself. Do that and you're walking away from a job that's not completed, that suggests a loser mentality and that doesn't seem like Dubas. Also, win in Toronto and you're immortal, that's an opportunity no other place can give you, how do you say no to that?

That's one reason why I don't see Matthews leaving either. Of course he could leave in theory, but the fact that so many people would label him a wuss and a coward if he left with nothing but 1st round exits on his playoff resume is motivation to stay, not leave. That's the way I see it anyway, I know so many people keep asking why would he stay with a team that never wins but the thing is, the fact that we haven't won yet is just as much on him as anyone else.

If these guys don't care about their legacy, that's one thing. But if they do, how can they possibly leave?

He already has his trophies...am doubting whether the Cup even means as much to him. Same with the other 2 amigos...what they want is to get paid
...the more $ the better...I cant wait to see what antics Nylander & Marner will come up with on their next negotiations.

Dubas knows how to BS well. He should find himself a job in communications or marketing or something

You got that right....he can & he will...

 

[Gary Nylund]

He already has his trophies...am doubting whether the Cup even means as much to him. Same with the other 2 amigos...what they want is to get paid
...the more $ the better...I cant wait to see what antics Nylander & Marner will come up with on their next negotiations.


You got that right....he can & he will...

Yeah I have no idea how much the cup means to Matthews. Marner, I think it would mean a ton to him, whether it would mean more than a few million extra in the bank, that I don't know. Nylander I expect would be the least likely to take a discount, but that's fine.

I am not looking forward to the next round of negotiations either. I've always been worried about Nylander leaving and after seeing the Horvat contract, I'm more scared than ever. As for M&M, who the hell knows.

I'm pretty sure that 10 years from now, Dubas will be a GM somewhere in the NHL and he'll probably be a pretty good one too. Hopefully it's with the TML and he'll have had at least one cup win to celebrate by then.