Toronto Maple Leafs: Who Would Replace Kyle Dubas?

[Dekes For Days]

Yup that is why I said quality over quantity and agreed it was not a good comparison. Now we are talking about what Dubas has done with "his" first round picks because that is where most of the quality from drafts comes from. I mean you can't bitch because he has not drafted high when he is the reason he has only drafted twice in the first round and has virtually nothing to show for those picks.

Agreed, your comparison was horrible.
Now, why are you only talking about 1st round picks? There are 7 rounds, and all of them count.
We have used some picks to boost the NHL team over the years. That's what teams in our position do, and part of the reason we've been able to is because we've drafted so well elsewhere.
Nobody is talking about "not drafting high". We're talking about you including lottery picks in the comparison. That's very, very different from what you get from late 1sts.
Even if Dubas didn't trade any picks, we would not have had lottery picks.
Dubas is also not the reason Amirov got brain cancer.

 

[ACC1224]

I certainty wouldnt have kept him for 3.8M

Didn’t they try and keep him?
Lucky escape there.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Didn’t they try and keep him?

Not for 3.8m.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Have we though? I'm not saying we haven't, but I don't know if we have.

Everytime a Marlie gets into the first team, none of them seem to constantly offer much. Spurts here and there for sure. It seems like we have a lot of guys that can sort of play a soft style in the bottom six.

Then we sign half a dozen UFAs to do the same thing.

Sandin has been a regular this year, Holmberg has been thriving in a bottom 6 role. Robertson hasn't taken the next step though and can't stay healthy. Other than that the other guys that Dubas has drafted from his first 1 or 2 drafts are only in their first year or so in the AHL but are doing very well.

Picks from the last few drafts are too young yet but are mostly all having incredible seasons.

Voit up until like 2 weeks ago was leading the OHL in scoring.

Knies has been a force in the NCAA and seems to coveted by the whole league in trade discussions.

Grebenkin is playing his first year in the KHL and has pretty much been a force there and is putting up numbers comparable to othe Russian star players in the past.

Minten has been having a very solid season in the WHL.

Moldenhauer is having a solid season in the USHL.

Hildeby is having another monster season in goal in Sweden.

Niemela continues to be one of the top D men in Europe.

When I look at BOS, TB and COL pools, there doesn't appear to be much there. Lysell for example is Bostons top prospect and is producing at a similar rate to Robertson in his 1st Ahl season. After that, there's not much noteworthy.

Edit: forgot to add Tverberg who has been having another excellent season in the NCAA and has been a steal of a 7th rounder.

 

[Anthrax442]

Toronto Maple Leafs: Who Would Replace Kyle Dubas?

The Toronto Maple Leafs are not sure who the general manager will be next season. Current GM Kyle Dubas is in the final year of his contract.

editorinleaf.com

Toronto Maple Leafs fans are not sure who the general manager will be next season.

Current Toronto Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas is in the final year of his contract and is a lame duck situation.

Kyle Dubas’ future with the Leafs may already be decided for all anyone knows, though some insist that it will come down to how well the team performs in the 2023 NHL playoffs.

Another first-round exit would likely end his tenure as Toronto’s GM, however, its going to depend on how the team performs overall.

Dubas has spent the past few seasons putting together a talented Toronto team, only to see it fail in the playoffs. This season, more than others, there is a lot at stake for Dubas and his team.

If this is indeed Dubas’ last season as the GM in Toronto, it may also be Shanahan’s.

Here are a few options the Leafs could explore, if necessary.

Toronto Maple Leafs Future GM Options​

There will be no shortage of possibilities for Shanahan when selecting the next general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It is a pretty coveted job within the NHL. So, when the time comes to hire a new GM, who will he choose?

Brandon Pridham​

Brandon Pridham is the current Assistant GM to Kyle Dubas and the wizard behind Toronto’s salary cap. His knowledge of Toronto’s salary cap future and the players makes him a great candidate. The big question will be whether or not he stays with the team or decides to follow Dubas to Dubas’ next landing spot. If he stays, he’s at the top of the list for Dubas’s replacement.

Ryan Hardy​

Ryan Hardy is the current general manager of the Toronto Marlies and is an assistant GM to Kyle Dubas. Hardy has held the position of Marlies GM since June 25th, 2021. He has a good working knowledge of Toronto’s prospects and what this team needs moving forward.

Doug Gilmour​

Former Toronto Maple Leafs captain Doug Gilmour is a fan favourite in Toronto. He was a very hard-working player and knows what it takes to win. From 2011 to 2017, Gilmour was the GM of the Kingston Frontenacs in the OHL. He acted as team president for Kingston from 2017 to 2019 before leaving the team to join the Toronto Maple Leafs as a community representative. There is no telling how well Gilmour would do as the GM in Toronto, but he would be starting with a talented roster.

Dr. Hayley Wickenheiser​

Dr. Hayley Wickenheiser is currently an assistant GM with the Toronto Maple Leafs in charge of player development. She knows a thing or two about winning. As a member of Canada’s women’s hockey team, Wickenheiser won four Olympic gold medals and one Olympic silver medal.

She also helped Team Canada win seven gold medals at the World Championships, along with six silver medals. Her role in player development would be an asset if Shanahan decides it’s time for her to be promoted.

None of these are better than Dubas.

 

[ACC1224]

Some of it has been his fault, but its disingenuous to act like there hasnt been some shitty circumstances.

Marleau wasn't his fault, he never signed that contract. Everyone knew when that contract was signed the Leafs would somehow have to dump him in the final year (SJS weren't even willing to give him 3 years...).

Amirov got brain cancer, not much you can do about that.

He traded a 1st for muzzin which was a solid trade and really needed at the time because again, Lou's best attempt at fixing the D was giving Zaitsev a 7 year deal.

Trading for Foligno was pure desperation because of the illusion that the North division would be a cake walk.

Obviously having to trade back 10 spots to dump Mrazek is solely on him, but I think they made that move because they could still get a player they value at a similar level back in the draft. And really in terms of value per pick, there wasnt much loss (late 1st, early 2nd is practically the same chance of drafting a successful NHLer).

Hes done more than fine for where they have drafted.

And really, theres only 1 player from those 1sts that hes moved that has been a regular NHLer (Jarvis) and again, you might not agree but imo it was not his fault at all that they had to shed that pick to get rid of Marleau. He is not the one that signed the contract.

Not solely at fault but certainly shares some of the blame for Marleau. That’s been beaten to death though.

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm not convinced Shanny is gone

He better be!!! I still think his puppeteer is Bettman!

This would be an interesting story to follow. They had extended Shanahan for 5 (or 6?) years; not sure how they will follow through with this.

Rogers/Shaw merger is imminent that means Rogers would be setting high prices; what does that mean for Bell? And what does that mean for hockey revenue. I haven't seen any report if Leafs related revenue has been lower/higher or about the same.

It is interesting to me at least that they haven't extended the GM/Coach yet; to me that says they want to manage costs a bit and not have another GM/coach salary on the books in case they want to fire them. They are still paying Babcock if am not mistaken.

They probably want to manage these costs moving froward; so Shanny's job security (or lack there of) would be interesting news

I think a big reason we are playing Tampa again is Don Sweeney being a better GM than Dubas. Boston is so good this year because Sweeney went out and acquire Ullmark, Lindholm and Zacha. All players we could have used but instead went to our division rival while Dubas was out signing Jarnkrok.

I think when players go to Boston they change the way they play to fit in with Boston's hockey culture.

I guess we can argue the same with how Muzzin changed the way he played when he joined the Leafs i.e. less physical hockey. I am sure there are for and against arguments for this as well

 

[PromisedLand]

No. It's Larry Tanenbaum and the teams never been able to win a series since just after he took over. Well documented he has his fingers in the pie all the time. Ballard didn't even want him to have control of the team and why do you think that is? When we were under TPP he ran the show, under Rogers Bell he is still in the middle running the show as he has the deciding votes for whatever Rogers or Bell want to do.

It is bizzare at least to me that it was really Tanenbaum that had convinced Babcock to come here and coach including getting Lou to come here (with assistance from shanny of course); so when they fired Babcock I was shocked a bit that Tanenbaum allowed that.

Only reason I say this is Babcock in his interviews after he was fired sang praises for Tanenbaum and MLSE (excluding Shanny/Dubas).

Tanenbaum also said that he wants to see the Leafs win the cup before he kicks the bucket; he is 78 years old not getting any younger I wonder what his next moves may be given his statement about Leafs winning the cup as long as he is alive

 

[ToneDog]

Agreed, your comparison was horrible.
Now, why are you only talking about 1st round picks? There are 7 rounds, and all of them count.
We have used some picks to boost the NHL team over the years. That's what teams in our position do, and part of the reason we've been able to is because we've drafted so well elsewhere.
Nobody is talking about "not drafting high". We're talking about you including lottery picks in the comparison. That's very, very different from what you get from late 1sts.
Even if Dubas didn't trade any picks, we would not have had lottery picks.
Dubas is also not the reason Amirov got brain cancer.

Something nobody can dispute.

 

[Stephen]

As I've mentioned before, his early mistakes cost him. I'm not sure he'll be able to come back from the damage he caused early on. We have glaring holes due to those decisions.

If he started out now, he'd probably be OK. But did too much damage in too short a time to recover.

That's my take on it too. It's more like the time factor that may not have been used optimally since 2018 to grow the program which is Dubas' soft spot vs any catastrophic one error that ruined the program.

For example, the Tavares contract isn't horrible if you consider he might be overpaid by $3 million in a vacuum. $3 million isn't the delta on any significant piece that would push the Leafs into a higher level of contention. But the carrying cost on it over the years necessitated some deals which hurt the team in the long run. Brown/Marleau/Kadri are some of the examples of spin off deals. In the same period of time he brought in a lot of good pieces too. But the results haven't been there.

I don't necessarily think we should pull the plug on him for a lot of those 2019-2020 moves though. As long as we have Matthews, Marner and Nylander the program is better served with more of a steady business as usual approach - since we're talking about building a good supporting cast around them.

I don't want a rookie GM under any circumstances though. Give me Julien Brisebois who knows how to top off a program.

 

[Stephen]

Lindsay Hofford worked with the London Knights from 2000 until 2015.
He was Head coach, Assistant coach and Dir of Amateur scouting during these years under the Hunters.
Marner was drafted #19th overall in 2013 when Hofford was director of amateur scouting for the Knights.

Hofford had known and worked with Marner since he was a kid.

"He has known London's director of scouting Lindsay Hofford since he was a little kid.


He has attended the Hill Academy private school in Vaughan, where Hofford is the hockey director, for the last three years."

"He's an entertaining player like Max and Bo (Horvat) – the bigger he gets, the better, but his compete level and vision are off the charts,” Hofford said. “People come to watch them play. I know the family. That's why we felt we could probably talk him into coming. With a little tender, loving care, we can get him in our lineup."

Hofford was hired by the Leafs May 19, 2015 and Marner was drafted June 27, 2015.

Feels like an extreme stretch to think Kyle Dubas was some huge force in drafting Marner when the Hofford/Hunter combo had known/coached/drafted the kid for quite some time.

Yeah, most of us lived through the early rebuild day to day following the lead up to the 2015 draft and got all the angles of the Hunter-Marner (and Hofford) connection as it happened so you can't really re-write that story.

 

[Cleetus]

Watching the Minnesota Vikings and Cousins having great regular seasons only to make a quick exit out of the playoffs made me think they are the NFL's version of the Leafs. You can decide who you think is the Leafs' Cousins.

I mean with the season on the like on a 4th and 8, he throws to his checkdown 5 yards short of the line to gain, he is a ok QB, not a winner

 

[thewave]

It is bizzare at least to me that it was really Tanenbaum that had convinced Babcock to come here and coach including getting Lou to come here (with assistance from shanny of course); so when they fired Babcock I was shocked a bit that Tanenbaum allowed that.

Only reason I say this is Babcock in his interviews after he was fired sang praises for Tanenbaum and MLSE (excluding Shanny/Dubas).

Tanenbaum also said that he wants to see the Leafs win the cup before he kicks the bucket; he is 78 years old not getting any younger I wonder what his next moves may be given his statement about Leafs winning the cup as long as he is alive

Some people can't get out of their own way. I think this is the case here and not some grand conspiracy where Larry T is the oppressor of the Leafs. Also keep in mind that a lot people in his position rule from the shadows and have the guys like Dubas and Shanny execute their orders if only to appear likable.

Ballard years... garbage teams.
Stavros years... ECF multiple times
Larry T... Least success of them all.

Common denominator

 

[PromisedLand]

I dont think another GM will make much of a difference, they cant break up the core 4 , they have to stick with them to have any chance at a championship, and go with them until the Taveras contract is up, at that point if they haven't won, then with the extra cap space they can pursue another GM. Currently there isn't much wiggle room cap wise that will make a difference for a new Gm.

I don't think there is going to be as much as "extra" cap available.

JT's 11 AAV comes of the cap

expectation of raises to the 3 amigos

Nylander 10 AAV (+3 AAV)
Matthews 15 to 16 AAV (+4 to 5 AAV)
Marner 14 to 15 AAA (+3 to 4 AAV)

range: 10 AAV to 12 AAV would about cover JT's AAV off the cap.

Then there will be raises to Lily, Sandin, other(s); and then need cap to fill the roster, goalie, etc...

Just my 2 cents

 

[ACC1224]

Some people can't get out of their own way. I think this is the case here and not some grand conspiracy where Larry T is the oppressor of the Leafs. Also keep in mind that a lot people in his position rule from the shadows and have the guys like Dubas and Shanny execute their orders if only to appear likable.

Ballard years... garbage teams.
Stavros years... ECF multiple times
Larry T... Least success of them all.

Common denominator

Wonder how different the landscape would be had the Leafs never purchased the Raptors and formed MLSE?

 

[PromisedLand]

Agreed but Dubas has traded some of his high picks (Muzzin, Soup, Foligno, Rittich, Gio) or using them to dump mistakes (Marleau, Ritchie, Mrazek). Tampa has but they have something to show for them. I am not really concerned if other teams screw up worse.

It really boggles my mind when some folks here justify stupid moves by the Leafs' front office as "look other teams did too"

I mean what are you even saying? Just because other teams screw up, Leafs should screw up too? And its ok?

Perhaps holding Leafs to a higher standard is something that should take precedence over everything else including on ice performance, attitude and foresight.

 

[Gallagbi]

he’s been good for Boston this year, I’d rather pay Foligno 3.8 than Kerfoot 3.5

Foligno is less productive and more limited in how hes used while being more expensive. Hes certainly tougher, and thats while Kerfoot has had a brutal year himself. Tough to argue any Leaf forward has disappointed more than Kerf this year and he still looks like an upgrade on Foligno

Not sure why youd want that.

Didn’t they try and keep him?
Lucky escape there.

Tried at a different price point from what i recall. Not sure how close the numbers were and they certainly liked him as a player.

 

[ACC1224]

Foligno is less productive and more limited in how hes used while being more expensive. Hes certainly tougher, and thats while Kerfoot has had a brutal year himself.

Not sure why youd want that.


Tried at a different price point from what i recall. Not sure how close the numbers were and they certainly liked him as a player.

You’d have to think it would have been somewhere around that number. Can’t imagine player value would fluctuate that dramatically from one team to the next.

 

[Gallagbi]

You’d have to think it would have been somewhere around that number. Can’t imagine player value would fluctuate that dramatically from one team to the next.

We ended up with Ritchie at 2.5, my guess is they were likely closer to that number and may have been adding term to keep it around there like they did with Jarn the next summer. Its the same offseason we lost Hyman when term to lower aav was also being tossed around

 

[ACC1224]

We ended up with Ritchie at 2.5, my guess is they were likely closer to that number and may have been adding term to keep it around there like they did with Jarn the next summer. Its the same offseason we lost Hyman when term to lower aav was also being tossed around

Yeah makes sense, he chased the money. You'd have to think his first choice would have been to stay.

 

[WillyC]

Put Jason Spezza in charge of everything.

 

[ACC1224]

Put Jason Spezza in charge of everything.

Spezza replaces Shanahan, fires Dubas and names Wickenhieser and Cassie Campbell co-GMs.

 

[Beaumaris]

Eh, is it really though?

Absolutely is mate.

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

Mike Futa: GM (rumored before shanny took over)
Barry Trotz: Coach

Futa was the hot commodity a few years ago it’s weird he hasn’t landed somewhere already.

 

[WillyC]

Spezza replaces Shanahan, fires Dubas and names Wickenhieser and Cassie Campbell co-GMs.

Yup, let Vintage do whatever he feels can bring the Stanley Cup to Toronto.

Spezza knows a lot