Toronto Maple Leafs are surprisingly underperforming

[Michel Beauchamp]

Toronto fans just don't want it enough and the players don't want to play uninspired hockey. Fans aren't showing up prepared the same way the players are.

You have a weird bee in the bonnet about the fans responsibility regarding a team's success or failure.

 

[TheNumber4]

If only the Leafs got to play in the pacific and play a lay up like the Kings, they would have made the 2nd round already.

Right? Just look at last nights game.

 

[leafsfan5]

There are good and bad things about being in a hockey mad city, and I wonder if you are falling a bit into the bad part of it (not just you btw). You know your team better than I would, but the big issue with a pressure environment is that the memory is long. Like with the Oilers, when times were bad they were miserable because there was intense pressure to win right NOW because every year of missing the playoffs highlighted the failures of the rebuild, and it led to super aggressive actions that didn't work and bad decisions (basically all of the Chiarelli era, and before even).

The best feelings the Leafs had were when they pre-empted a season by saying they were freezing ticket prices and that the team would be bad (I think this was right after the Matthews draft). They primed the fanbase for low expectations. The pressure was vanished because the fans and media were on board. But, the team ended up over achieving.

The Leafs have been bad this year but the pressure will prevent the team from bouncing back, especially if numerious players and the coach now have the magnifying glass over them and people's jobs might be at stake in the short term.

Yes, this is concerning because it fits a pattern, either with the Leafs or with other coaches being tuned out by their teams, but it also fits the pattern that I brought up: early season zaniness. Just because there isn't a logical excuse of sucking, like the Avs for instance, doesn't mean that the reason is that the team is bad.

If the Leaf players and management can't handle the pressure here they should leave. This isn't a difficult city to please. We literally want some progress and our players to work hard. This isn't the Lakers of the NHL, we don't demand a championship year in and year out

And in all honesty, they deserve the magnifying glass over them. These guys get paid top dollar and have accomplished nothing of significance team-wise. Yet they take games off and play down to opponents like they're the Tampa Bay Lightning and have earned that level of hubris

This is a talented team, they will get hot and win like 8 of their next 10 soon enough just off pure skill. But their underlying issues are still there, and this start proves that. The Avalanche have a cup and success in the playoffs, for them it's much more logical to understand this start isn't a big deal

 

[North Cole]

Why is everyone overreacting?

Fire the coach?
Top players are turds?

The Leafs “at their worst” are still managing a 500 record in the uber-competitive Atlantic Division.

The Ducks and Canucks would love to switch places. At their best, these 2 teams have a combined 2 wins. Count your blessings.

Let’s all calm down. A 5 game win streak and 4 straight hat tricks by pre-pubescent moustache and this board is crowning them the President’s Trophy winner.

We’re 10% into the season.

RELAX.

Personally, I think they will figure it out, core is too good not to string some wins together at some point. That said, your post is a bit of a red herring because they have only played 2 Atlantic teams so far and went 1-1, with the loss being to MTL. They have come out west and are 0-3 so far against the Pacific which is regarded as a junk division, on top of that they also lost to ARI.

While they are technically 0.500 against the Atlantic, its two games and the team they lost to is supposed to be in the Bedard race. You're framing it like they went up against TB/BOS/FLA and came away with decent to good results. Then they lost to SJS and ARI, two more teams supposed to be in the tank.

The worry is that if they are dropping these games against this competition, what are they going to do when they have to run through the Metro and the top half of the Atlantic? I think they will turn it around, but you do need to look at the pile up in front of them and start to worry if they can't get past these teams quickly. VAN found out last year, being 10 points behind 1-2 teams is a lot better than being 4-6 points behind 5 teams. It's not the gap to the playoff line that gets you, its the number of horses in front, because while you might streak and can bank on passing 1 or 2 teams if they go cold and you get hot. It's really long odds to have 5-6 teams in front of you go cold when you get hot. There's too much parity in the league, someone else will get points and that's as true at game 10 as it is at game 70, the key to making the playoffs is not being 6-7th when the race is on, even if it's only a smaller gap to the line.

 

[Team Cozens]

Matthews only has 1 point 5 on 5, once that improves, team should improve as well.

Kinda the same with Tavares who has 7 of his 10 points on the PP. Tavares looks slow at even strength and the Leafs just aren't a very good team 5on5 anymore. Bottom 6 is bad. Look at the Dallas game they won where they were given nine powerplays and scored two goals getting it to OT where they scored on the 3on3. The PP can carry you during the regular season but me thinks not in the first round of the playoffs.

 

[wintersej]

If the Leaf players and management can't handle the pressure here they should leave. This isn't a difficult city to please. We literally want some progress and our players to work hard. This isn't the Lakers of the NHL, we don't demand a championship year in and year out

And in all honesty, they deserve the magnifying glass over them. These guys get paid top dollar and have accomplished nothing of significance team-wise. Yet they take games off and play down to opponents like they're the Tampa Bay Lightning and have earned that level of hubris

This is a talented team, they will get hot and win like 8 of their next 10 soon enough just off pure skill. But their underlying issues are still there, and this start proves that. The Avalanche have a cup and success in the playoffs, for them it's much more logical to understand this start isn't a big deal

You are way underrating the amount of pressure.

Leafs remind me of the pre-2004 Red Sox. Extreme pressure and passion and lots of heart breaking losses in the city’s DNA. That team figured it out by filling the locker room with fun loving jokesters to keep it light and fun.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

I think they've had a little bit more success to allow leniency

Which somehow a Lightning fan doesn’t get?

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I can like the players and at the same time dislike the structure caused because of their signings.

Tavares (I like him alot); but his signing caused a ripple effect in the organization...

We were handcuffed with no ability to keep character players (Hyman/Brown/Kadri) and/or upgrade with proper depth to promote our core - all while setting a AAV bar for our young players to demand.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

You have a weird bee in the bonnet about the fans responsibility regarding a team's success or failure.

If the Toronto fans don't shape up, they need to sell the team for parts before the deadline. The only way to get the stench out of the building.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Realistically, which of those “big” money four could be traded and return enough to better balance the lineup? I’m thinking Matthews, and no way would I trade him away. The guys in the room need to figure it out. I don’t see help coming from outside.

I know, its a total cluster. JT would make the most sense to move but he has the worst contract and that NMC. Matthews is the face of the franchise and like 1/3rd of the teams total goal production so you need to keep him. Marner is a *generational* playmaker and might be the main reason Matthews is anything more than a 30/40 goal guy so you cant ship him out for fear of tanking Matthews' production. That leaves Nylander, but he has the best contract and is arguably the most well rounded player of the 4 (aka the best overall value). So it'd be dumb to give up your best guy when you're already in a cap crunch.

Its like owning a mountain of gold bars but it being meaningless because you live in the woods a thousand miles from civilization.

I think their best case scenario (which would absolutely never happen now) would be to go back in time and package Nylander with w/e it would take to get Makar from Colorado. You'd need a DMan of that caliber, both in defense and offense, to fill the team needs while also compensating for the production loss of shipping out one of the stars - and a low cap hit no less.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Leafs are bottom 5 in goals for right now. Anyone who thinks this is what they are and Matthews is a 15 goal scorer are out to lunch. League MVP plays like shit to start the year and team looks like shit. He's not playing defensively how he was last year either which doesn't help.

Couple that with so many injuries to the defense right away, and the team has had a hard time getting started and it has snow balled into a loss of confidence.

Once Liljegren returns next week that will do a lot for us in having him replace Holl and bring some puck movement back there.

I'd be a lot more concerned if the top line was playing well and we looked like this. Any roster will always suffer when their big guns are not playing well

 

[Martin Skoula]

I can like the players and at the same time dislike the structure caused because of their signings.

Tavares (I like him alot); but his signing caused a ripple effect in the organization...

We were handcuffed with no ability to keep character players (Hyman/Brown/Kadri) and/or upgrade with proper depth to promote our core - all while setting a AAV bar for our young players to demand.

Hyman Kadri and Brown are going to cost a combined ~18 million as of next season all on long term deals through their mid-late 30s. Even if the Leafs had the cap space, it would be insane to keep more than one of them at that price point/age/trade protection.

You're supposed to use good grinders while they're young healthy and underpaid and then find or buy new ones unless you can get them on a Nick Paul deal.

 

[TheNumber4]

Hyman Kadri and Brown are going to cost a combined ~18 million as of next season all on long term deals through their mid-late 30s. Even if the Leafs had the cap space, it would be insane to keep more than one of them at that price point/age/trade protection.

Some would say it’s insane to try to win a playoff round with no heart. Absolutely none.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Without the COVID influence the Leafs top at a 95-105 point pace. See the 4 prior seasons pre-COVID.

It is indisputable.

team got better over those 4 years but yeah I guess so

Yeah but at some point Toronto fans need to stop blaming other people and start looking in the mirror

look in the mirror? what are u even talling about? and who are we blaming?

 

[Nostradumbass]

I think their best case scenario (which would absolutely never happen now) would be to go back in time and package Nylander with w/e it would take to get Makar from Colorado. You'd need a DMan of that caliber, both in defense and offense, to fill the team needs while also compensating for the production loss of shipping out one of the stars - and a low cap hit no less.

Nylander would be a sweetener in that deal, not the main piece... I don't think Avs fans would do it for Matthews unless the rest of the package was enticing enough.

 

[crowi]

I remember saying they should get rid of Keefe for years now as he just doesn't adapt at all. Now that the team is playing like they are, maybe they're done with him. If the players get to get rid of another coach that was by all accounts, a sweet, soft, player's coach, then what kind of coach could work? Babcock had a decent record with a much worse team, but he was too mean. At some point it's up to the players.

 

[Breakers]

That 3rd goal by LA last night was wild.

It looked like every player had a blindfold on.
Once they scored every Toronto player was looking at another like “isn’t that your guy?”

 

[Finnflash]

Right now sure. In a few months looking back I predict we will all say they are performing to expectations

 

[ChadBigly]

They'll turn it around and make the playoffs. But the underlying issues will remain and they won't win a thing

This team is coddled and soft. A terrible combination

Yep. Just hope they don't - by some miracle - actually fluke winning a round in the playoffs. Dubas will probably get an extension then lol. It's at the point that actually winning something would be the worst case scenario for you guys.

 

[Mr Positive]

Yep. Just hope they don't - by some miracle - actually fluke winning a round in the playoffs. Dubas will probably get an extension then lol. It's at the point that actually winning something would be the worst case scenario for you guys.

Dubas seems like an objectively high quality GM. I swear it is true. It all goes to how you evaluate a GM. Imo, the quality of the gambles should matter more than the results, like poker. It seems to me like Dubas has made the right moves but the wrong cards have been popping up.

I can't think of a pivot point that truly put the Leafs down the wrong path. It's easy to say that the move was Tavares, and that this condemned them to being too forward heavy. However, for that criticism to have force don't you also have to point out the elite defenseman or goalie or whoever, that they could have picked instead? Or, is the wisdom that the Leafs would be better with that money spent on depth players?

 

[TheNumber4]

Right now sure. In a few months looking back I predict we will all say they are performing to expectations

Agreed. I think they’ll get eliminated in the first round too.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Rangers v Leafs ECF you heard it here first

 

[leafsfan5]

You are way underrating the amount of pressure.

Leafs remind me of the pre-2004 Red Sox. Extreme pressure and passion and lots of heart breaking losses in the city’s DNA. That team figured it out by filling the locker room with fun loving jokesters to keep it light and fun.

I really disagree

We're a franchise who has recently lost in the first round for 6 straight years and a sizeable portion of the fanbase was saying "run it back" following the 6th defeat. There is no accountability here, the pressure is all a facade. If anything, the media and fanbase has been too easy on this team. All we mainly want our guys to work hard. It's why this franchise loves Wendel Clarke, it's why so many of us still love Kadri. We're just pissed we can't even get that

As a Boston fan you're lucky enough to not deal with the distinct lack of accountability. You guys lost in the first round for the first time since like 2017 and fired the coach and definitively stated it wasn't good enough. There's pressure there, either perform or there's changes coming. That doesn't exist here. Not with this management

 

[Team Cozens]

Maybe the Leafs can beat the Ducks tonight and then the Flyers in the next 2 games. All will be well and Keefe for the Adams.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

If the Toronto fans don't shape up, they need to sell the team for parts before the deadline. The only way to get the stench out of the building.

Yep, the bee is still there and buzzing...