Toronto has scored 11PPGs since Marner injury

[francis246]

So they were willing to offer Marner 13 mil (and 4 first round picks) but not Rantanen 10 mil (2 first round picks). Wow. That sure seems smart of them.

Completely made up narrative to rationalize a rookie gm that didn't know what he was doing.

I don’t want to insult you, so I’m going to do my very best to refrain from doing so. But God if I know why CBJ prioritized Marner over Rantanen. That’s their opinion. A simple google search will site multiple sources saying the Islander, Wild and Blue Jackets presented offer sheets to Marner. So maybe that tells you what the league at that time thought of Marner vs Rantanen. It’s very simple, if you want to stick to your narrative of thinking Marner is shit, that’s your own shit to deal with, but clearly at that point in time, many GM’s in the league felt he was the top RFA. So I don’t know why your coming after me like I’m a GM in the NHL, if that pisses you off so much go take it up with Lou Lam and Jarmo.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t think it’s irrational at all. CBJ was throwing picks around to try and win a cup with Duchene and that group anyways. Also in order to have a successful offer sheet, you need to pay the player well over market value to even get him to consider leaving. So yes I do think he was offered anywhere from 12million to 13 million. It’s easy to say in hindsight that’s a bad deal but he was coming off 90 plus points CBJ was in win now mode and they needed scoring bad, it’s no secret.

That would make Marner the highest paid player in the League if the 13mil offer sheet was true.
Marner is a great player but I highly doubt any teams would offer 13mil to sign him at that time. Considering there were a bunch of RFAs at that time, Rantanen had back to back 80plus points seasons, Point just came off a 40goals season while missing 10 games or so.
I am sure there was an OS from BJs but I doubt it is 12-13mil.

 

[freshwind]

i kept telling myself to stay out of this but i got sucked in

seems people have a selective memory when it comes to the marner negotiations ...
when the leafs "allegedly" turned down the ferris offer marner had 2 60 something point seasons if i recall correctly ... how could anyone justify 8 or 9 mill per at that point ... we still had willie to sign and his points were not far off at that time ... marner had a nice run the 2nd half of the season but an awful small sample size to spend that much at that point ... shades of zaitsev's half season anyone?

as for the jackets offer sheet ... seems i recall it was reported they wanted him to sign for 7 years and he wanted the same money for 5 ... and it certainly wasn't 13 ... maybe in a dreger or dangle world ... jackets were wise not to give up 4 1sts for 5 years ... they wanted 7 but ferris, paul and mitch wanted 5

whether one likes dubas or not, the reality is the leafs have to be successful with this mix or marner is the logical guy to move ...
guess it is time to queue all the marnerites to attack me now ... but i have a good memory and no, i will not waste an afternoon going back over old newspaper articles to verify ... it is my recollection and is as valid as any fans' ......

very cursory look .. quote from elliotte friedman back then

“From what I heard, and this is not like a fight, it did not turn into a bad negotiation, someone said don’t frame it as it turned into a fight between Columbus and the agent. I think what happened was if Columbus was going to do it, it had to be for seven years. And I think what Marner and his side was looking for was less term than that.”
“And if you’re going to go the full four (1st round) picks, you’re not giving up four first rounders for three of four years. You’re just not doing that. And I think that’s why that one fell to the wayside. But I had multiple people telling me that, if anyone was going to do that, it was going to be Columbus.”

 

[Notsince67]

If satire, this is one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum. If real, it's one of the worst posts I've ever read on this forum.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Mitch with CBJ - what a threat

 

[francis246]

Mitch with CBJ - what a threat

LOL did they not beat us in the play-in round the next year?

 

[ShaneFalco]

LOL did they not beat us in the play-in round the next year?

Hometown geez shucks Mitch Marner going to a team like CBJ
Yeah enjoy!

 

[francis246]

Hometown geez shucks Mitch Marner going to a team like CBJ
Yeah enjoy!

LOL i don't really care that much man. either way we can shit on CBJ all we want, they've had deeper playoff runs than us hahahaha.

 

[ShaneFalco]

LOL i don't really care that much man. either way we can shit on CBJ all we want, they've had deeper playoff runs than us hahahaha.

Point is 16 was never even going to entertain CBJ and Dubas really held all the cards and totally folded
He was never going to live up to the contract from day 1 and that's on Mitch but mainly on Dubas

 

[Dekes For Days]

What’s false about the PP being more productive when Marner was injured and the 2nd PP unit being better last night and actually scoring a PP goal.

Saying that the PP was very productive when Marner was injured is fine and true, but that's very different from saying that the PP was very productive because Marner was injured - which is the sentiment being spread. I'd say that both PP units looked pretty rusty last night. I'd say the 2nd unit looked a bit less rusty, but also less dangerous most of the night - though they did capitalize, so they get points for that.

 

[Canadian Finn]

getting him off PP1 is addition by subtraction.

 

[hotpaws]

people need to stop believing everything that gets spewed by the media or some kids podcast from his parents basement

these are just fairy tales to defend the deals deals the team handed out

JT signs for 11m but wait that's a discount because supposedly SJ was going to offer 13m plus

Mathews signs for 11.65 x 5yrs which was originally tried to spin as team friendly by saying he wanted an 8yr term but it would have been at 13,5m per or something like that so he worked with the team to lower the cap hit , lol , but when that didn't stick they had Elliot come out a month later and say the rumor was the broke ass yotes were going to give him 20% of the cap

and Marner also had much higher offers as well , lol

so i'm left to wonder why those who believe these rumors never ask themselves why our players are worth so much considering a young high quality center like Aho could only get an offer sheet at 8.5m

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Where does that say (lol) 13 mil?

 

[egd27]

A simple google search will site multiple sources saying the Islander, Wild and Blue Jackets presented offer sheets to Marner.

But if you actually READ what was written after the search, it's nothing but very weak speculation.

For example:
How close did the Blue Jackets come to offer-sheeting Mitch Marner? - Sportsnet.ca

The longer Mitchell Marner remains unsigned, the more questions are floated into the hockey universe about whether Toronto’s biggest restricted free agent might be presented with an offer sheet.

I think there was another team before that and my belief is that team was Columbus. I think they were thinking about it.

“I think what happened was, if Columbus was going to do it, it had to be for seven years. And I think what I heard Marner was looking for, or his side was looking for, was less term than that,” Friedman said. “But I had multiple people telling me that they thought if anybody was going to do it, it was going to be Columbus.”

Not exactly the evidence you'd get a conviction on.

 

[francis246]

But if you actually READ what was written after the search, it's nothing but very weak speculation.

For example:
How close did the Blue Jackets come to offer-sheeting Mitch Marner? - Sportsnet.ca

The longer Mitchell Marner remains unsigned, the more questions are floated into the hockey universe about whether Toronto’s biggest restricted free agent might be presented with an offer sheet.

I think there was another team before that and my belief is that team was Columbus. I think they were thinking about it.

“I think what happened was, if Columbus was going to do it, it had to be for seven years. And I think what I heard Marner was looking for, or his side was looking for, was less term than that,” Friedman said. “But I had multiple people telling me that they thought if anybody was going to do it, it was going to be Columbus.”

Not exactly the evidence you'd get a conviction on.

i'm going based off what was spoken by different people who spend their lives talking about hockey. So yes I'm sure the speculated 13 is off, but clearly the number was higher than 11. and that's the only thing that makes sense in order to even get Marner to listen.

 

[Canadian Finn]

clearly

 

[francis246]

people need to stop believing everything that gets spewed by the media or some kids podcast from his parents basement

these are just fairy tales to defend the deals deals the team handed out

JT signs for 11m but wait that's a discount because supposedly SJ was going to offer 13m plus

Mathews signs for 11.65 x 5yrs which was originally tried to spin as team friendly by saying he wanted an 8yr term but it would have been at 13,5m per or something like that so he worked with the team to lower the cap hit , lol , but when that didn't stick they had Elliot come out a month later and say the rumor was the broke ass yotes were going to give him 20% of the cap

and Marner also had much higher offers as well , lol

but i'm left to wonder why those who believe these rumors never ask themselves why our players are worth so much considering a young high quality center like Aho could only get an offer sheet at 8.5m

So we should believe you? a no body? People in the media although they may not be right, are connected, they get their information from somewhere. Unlike any of us. And it's really only leafs fans who have this bitch fit with the media, nothing they say can be right. HF boards members are way smarter than any insider!!!!

that's because we are talking about at that point in time. Marner and Matthews were the top two rated RFA's. At that time I don't think there were many GM's (based on just the reports about the number of teams interested in signing Marner to an Offer Sheet forget about the numbers) that would rather have Aho or Rantanen. Obviously in hindsight it's easy to say those 3 are much closer together but at that time, there is no doubt that marner was the best of the 3 and GM's clearly felt that way too. It's probably a way different conversation here in 2022.

 

[hotpaws]

So we should believe you? a no body? People in the media although they may not be right, are connected, they get their information from somewhere. Unlike any of us. And it's really only leafs fans who have this bitch fit with the media, nothing they say can be right. HF boards members are way smarter than any insider!!!!

that's because we are talking about at that point in time. Marner and Matthews were the top two rated RFA's. At that time I don't think there were many GM's (based on just the reports about the number of teams interested in signing Marner to an Offer Sheet forget about the numbers) that would rather have Aho or Rantanen. Obviously in hindsight it's easy to say those 3 are much closer together but at that time, there is no doubt that marner was the best of the 3 and GM's clearly felt that way too. It's probably a way different conversation here in 2022.

you can believe whatever you like but at that time there wasn't millions separating Mathews/Marner from Aho/Rantanen regardless of how hard you try to believe otherwise

and as far as the rumors posted by the media , many of whom are employees of the same parent company as the Leafs , the fact remains is there just rumors and none of them were ever confirmed yet they are taken as fact to try to justify why the team paid more than comparable players

 

[francis246]

you can believe whatever you like but at that time there wasn't millions separating Mathews/Marner from Aho/Rantanen regardless of how hard you try to believe otherwise

and as far as the rumors posted by the media , many of whom are employees of the same parent company as the Leafs , the fact remains is there just rumors and none of them were ever confirmed yet they are taken as fact to try to justify why the team paid more than comparable players

marner is better than aho for me personally. Rantanen that’s a different story. He had back to back 84+ point seasons which is crazy impressive. But still Marner is out producing him and Marner also penalty kills, I don’t believe Rantanen does a whole lot of that.

Where there is smoke, there is usually fire & that’s the beauty of sports very rarely are things confirmed! Why? Because 1. It’s private and 2 it gives fans things to talk about, keep the buzz alive. All I’m saying is I believe some form of the story to be true. You don’t have to feel that way. I hope one day Marner writes a tell all book or does a 30 for 30 type interview and we get the true story of how it came down. But I’m not one to shit on insiders because they give us good information, it’s literally how we find out about things.

additionally, The fans comped Marner to Aho/Rantanen. We know who he and his agent comped himself to. Matthews, McDavid, Eichel. So that point is moot bc it doesn’t matter what we as fans think, the only person it matters to is Marner and Dubas.

 

[hotpaws]

marner is better than aho for me personally. Rantanen that’s a different story. He had back to back 84+ point seasons which is crazy impressive. But still Marner is out producing him and Marner also penalty kills, I don’t believe Rantanen does a whole lot of that.

Where there is smoke, there is usually fire & that’s the beauty of sports very rarely are things confirmed! Why? Because 1. It’s private and 2 it gives fans things to talk about, keep the buzz alive. All I’m saying is I believe some form of the story to be true. You don’t have to feel that way. I hope one day Marner writes a tell all book or does a 30 for 30 type interview and we get the true story of how it came down. But I’m not one to shit on insiders because they give us good information, it’s literally how we find out about things.

additionally, The fans comped Marner to Aho/Rantanen. We know who he and his agent comped himself to. Matthews, McDavid, Eichel. So that point is moot bc it doesn’t matter what we as fans think, the only person it matters to is Marner and Dubas.

if you stopped for a second and took off your Leaf colored glasses you'd realize these rumor's don't make much sense since we're not talking about a few hundred k with Marner but millions

and in Mathews case they case they wasn't any comparables to try to justify his cap hit at that term so they tried to play the home town card bs but unfortunately the Yotes can't even pay rent never mind spend 16m on 1 player then have the cash to build a tea, around AM

but hey if it makes you feel better then believe what you want , it doesn't make any difference to me

 

[francis246]

if you stopped for a second and took off your Leaf colored glasses you'd realize these rumor's don't make much sense since we're not talking about a few hundred k with Marner but millions

and in Mathews case they case they wasn't any comparables to try to justify his cap hit at that term so they tried to play the home town card bs but unfortunately the Yotes can't even pay rent never mind spend 16m on 1 player then have the cash to build a tea, around AM

but hey if it makes you feel better then believe what you want , it doesn't make any difference to me

what are you talking about? I am probably one of the least leafs homer on this board . And Marner himself came out and said his compariables were Matthews and McDavid. That came directly from his mouth. Fans on this board are pissed because THEY feel that he is comparable to Aho and Rantanen. But news flash, no one in the NHL gives a f*** about what we think on this board LMAO. So go on being mad


And if you understood how offersheets/compensation worked you actually understand why CBJ would have to offer more than 11 million for it to be effective and for Marner to even entertain the conversation.

 

[hotpaws]

what are you talking about? I am probably one of the least leafs homer on this board . And Marner himself came out and said his compariables were Matthews and McDavid. That came directly from his mouth. Fans on this board are pissed because THEY feel that he is comparable to Aho and Rantanen. But news flash, no one in the NHL gives a f*** about what we think on this board LMAO. So go on being mad


And if you understood how offersheets/compensation worked you actually understand why CBJ would have to offer more than 11 million for it to be effective and for Marner to even entertain the conversation.

i don't remember Marner ever saying McD was a comp and wtf does it matter what Marner feels is his comps ? Ranta had Marner as his comp and waited for him to reset the bar higher and even when he did Sakic told him to f*** off and give his head a shake and singed him to a much more reasonable deal a couple of weeks after Marner signed

i know how offer sheets work and maybe if you weren't so desperate to try to justify these deals you'd realize Aho could only get one for 8.5m so i have no idea why you think it's realistic a team would offer Marner more than 11m and also have to give up 4 1st rd picks if the Leafs didn't match

also i'm not pissed at Marner or any of our 11m guys , it's there right to try to get as much as they can if that's their priority , i'm pissed at the team for setting up an internal cap which set them up for the players demands

 

[francis246]

i don't remember Marner ever saying McD was a comp and wtf does it matter what Marner feels is his comps ? Ranta had Marner as his comp and waited for him to reset the bar higher and even when he did Sakic told him to f*** off and give his head a shake and singed him to a much more reasonable deal a couple of weeks after Marner signed

i know how offer sheets work and maybe if you weren't so desperate to try to justify these deals you'd realize Aho could only get one for 8.5m so i have no idea why you think it's realistic a team would offer Marner more than 11m and also have to give up 4 1st rd picks if the Leafs didn't match

also i'm not pissed at Marner or any of our 11m guys , it's there right to try to get as much as they can if that's their priority , i'm pissed at the team for setting up an internal cap which set them up for the players demands

If you knew anything you'd realize that Aho getting 8.5 had f*** all to do with Marner and more to do with Carolina's money situation and how cheap their ownership group is. Aho knew that 8.5 would put pressure on Carolina. Carolina would have to really discuss as a management group. 8.5 is chump change to MLSE, not a single team would waste their time trying to sign Marner to an 8.5 contract because the leafs would match that instantly.

offersheets have everything to do with threshold points. Which is why I believe the CBJ "story". The offersheet to Marner would have to be a ridiculous number because you're already way past the point of any additional compensation. 10.9 or 12 or 13 mill, the compensation is the same. Once you hit that point, you're trying to get the offersheet to a number where you believe the player will sign and you force the team into shitty decision. (However in this case) it seemed like the agent was willing to go that route and the player didn't want to get that dirty.

but hey what do I know, I'm just another delusional fan that listens to the media too much.

 

[hotpaws]

If you knew anything you'd realize that Aho getting 8.5 had f*** all to do with Marner and more to do with Carolina's money situation and how cheap their ownership group is. Aho knew that 8.5 would put pressure on Carolina. Carolina would have to really discuss as a management group. 8.5 is chump change to MLSE, not a single team would waste their time trying to sign Marner to an 8.5 contract because the leafs would match that instantly.

offersheets have everything to do with threshold points. Which is why I believe the CBJ "story". The offersheet to Marner would have to be a ridiculous number because you're already way past the point of any additional compensation. 10.9 or 12 or 13 mill, the compensation is the same. Once you hit that point, you're trying to get the offersheet to a number where you believe the player will sign and you force the team into shitty decision. (However in this case) it seemed like the agent was willing to go that route and the player didn't want to get that dirty.

but hey what do I know, I'm just another delusional fan that listens to the media too much.

Aho could have signed an offersheet with any of the 30 teams in the league so it wasn't just Montreal trying to structure a contract Carolina wouldn't match and Aho would agree too but also out bidding any other team than was looking to poach him .

so what you're overlooking is why wouldn't Columbus offer him 9-9.5m instead of the 11 plus you keep believing they offered Marner and save the cap space and extra picks ?

Aho was coming off a 30g/83pt season and it's not like he was surrounded by a group of high scoring elite forwards .

your spin about how the Jackets needed to offer some outrageous sum to pry Marner out of Tor may be true but ignores the fact they had other players they could target and the 4 firsts as comp as well as a ridiculous cap hit on there books make offering him that deal pure nonsense

you see very few offer sheets because they don't make sense so this idea that teams were lining up too offer only our players outrageous deals is fairy tales made up by company employed "insiders'' to deflect criticism away from our mgmt team

 

[Antropovsky]

If you knew anything you'd realize that Aho getting 8.5 had f*** all to do with Marner and more to do with Carolina's money situation and how cheap their ownership group is. Aho knew that 8.5 would put pressure on Carolina. Carolina would have to really discuss as a management group. 8.5 is chump change to MLSE, not a single team would waste their time trying to sign Marner to an 8.5 contract because the leafs would match that instantly.

offersheets have everything to do with threshold points. Which is why I believe the CBJ "story". The offersheet to Marner would have to be a ridiculous number because you're already way past the point of any additional compensation. 10.9 or 12 or 13 mill, the compensation is the same. Once you hit that point, you're trying to get the offersheet to a number where you believe the player will sign and you force the team into shitty decision. (However in this case) it seemed like the agent was willing to go that route and the player didn't want to get that dirty.

but hey what do I know, I'm just another delusional fan that listens to the media too much.

You really think a GM was going to give up 4 first round picks and 13 million per year for Mitch Marner?

Delusional..yes, no question.