Toronto has scored 11PPGs since Marner injury

[francis246]

I'd like him to move the puck quickly in those situations. Even if it has to be a quick shot on net to create rebounds and movement.

zeke come on your a smart guy, look at the angle of the goalie, any shot created there rebounds quickly back to him based on the angle of murray. and its low quality to force that into four defenders, he made the right play even if it was slower than you wanted him to

 

[Gallagbi]

where would you have wanted him to skate there? Into the corner? Throw the puck in the middle where 4 defenders are?

Take back more ice so he's less stationary and can make a play.

He skates himself into no man's land a couple of times that shift when he can get a better angle for both a pass and a shot if he's not drifting down.

I'd also say this is a regular occurrence, especially as the PPs go on. Feels like he's trying to mirror Matthews without having the same skills rather than playing to his strengths.

 

[Antropovsky]

additionally look at the angle Marner receives the pass at from rielly, it's so low at an awkward angle, the goalie had already committed to hugging the post. no defender in their right mind is going to over commit to Marner and open up a passing lane. That could have been Nylander there and the defender would have made the same decision. It has nothing to do with a lack of respect for Marner's shot.

So you don't think he had alot of time and space with this puck?

That is the one PP shot he got last night, though this wasn't one of the particularly noteworthy plays the unit had, or things Marner did, and your description of what happened is pretty inaccurate.

Rielly passes to Matthews, who does a rather slow no look back-pass back to Rielly. Rielly collects the pass on his backhand, and then does a forehand pass off to Marner, who is not on his one-time side and receives it down low. The goalie commits hard to Marner's side, and an opposition player is sliding through the crease to block off much of the far side of the net and any lane through the crease.

Marner delays to see if the goalie, who was a bit off balance, opens anything up, or if the sliding player open up any lanes, but nothing materializes and the player behind him is rushing to put a stick in, so he takes the shot, which while not particularly high percentage, is really the only option available and is well placed just below the arm.

What was inaccurate about my statement? You say it's inaccurate but don't say what was inaccurate. Also you didnt answer my question - you don't see this play as Marner having time and space?

Also you say Marner delays to see if the goalie will open up? How do you know this for a fact? Did Marner tell you?


The broadcaster says something during the slower replay - "you can see Marner take a split second look..." but the clip is cut off. What does the announcer say?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

he’s out produced Matthews since entering the league

he gets points because matthews and tavares and nylander have finish.

I don't like Marner on the PP

 

[zeke]

zeke come on your a smart guy, look at the angle of the goalie, any shot created there rebounds quickly back to him based on the angle of murray. and its low quality to force that into four defenders, he made the right play even if it was slower than you wanted him to

This is the issue - our prime PP guy has the puck in a dangerous position but isn't actually a real threat to score, and the other guys are all covered because of it.

That's exactly the issue.

 

[Gallagbi]

Also you say Marner delays to see if the goalie will open up? How do you know this for a fact? Did Marner tell you?

He delays because he mishandled the puck and didn't accept in a shooting spot. Truthfully he's better off shooting into the traffic or a rebound from that area with the high/low play.

The broadcaster says something during the slower replay - "you can see Marner take a split second look..." but the clip is cut off. What does the announcer say?

Full look of the play around 1:14:00 on my link btw

 

[Gabriel426]

First of all, they have not been playing for 2 weeks.
Like I mentioned earlier, the skills players were not their usual self last night due to timing.

I really won't look into too much at last night game as they are struggling with Marner on PP1.

Switching Marner and Kase or Spezza from PP1 really changed dynamics of that unit. Kase is someone who will be crashing the net constantly and creating traffic while tying up one dman, that allows JT, Willie and AM to have more open space as a result.
Spezza is someone who is going to shoot 9 out of 10 times when he has even a little space. Thats why he is always in position to shoot. Marner is always looking for quick pass and try to draw the defender out to create space for others. Thats why Marner is rarely in a position to shoot. Even if he gets space and time, he is thinking about pass first. Thats just the way he plays.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Also you didnt answer my question - you don't see this play as Marner having time and space?

You edited in the question afterward. I think Marner had a bit more time and space on that one particular play you've isolated, but largely because half the opposition was sliding on the ground, he received the pass at an angle that didn't provide a lot of shot options, and the goalie was already committed hard to the shot. This isn't really any different than how anybody else would be defended in this situation.

Also you say Marner delays to see if the goalie will open up? How do you know this for a fact? Did Marner tell you?

You can literally see him receive the puck, wind up for a shot, see that it's completely blocked off, and delay, before he shoots a second later. He clearly delays to see if anything opens up, in either the goalie or passing lanes. That's a thing that players do.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Keeping him.stapled to the #1 PP is babcock-ian

 

[francis246]

You edited in the question afterward. I think Marner had a bit more time and space on that one particular play you've isolated, but largely because half the opposition was sliding on the ground, he received the pass at an angle that didn't provide a lot of shot options, and the goalie was already committed hard to the shot. This isn't really any different than how anybody else would be defended in this situation.

You can literally see him receive the puck, wind up for a shot, see that it's completely blocked off, and delay, before he shoots a second later. He clearly delays to see if anything opens up, in either the goalie or passing lanes. That's a thing that players do.

using logic isn’t allowed here. They rather see Marner force a pass through 4 defenders, or take a low quality (because the goalie had covered the entire right side of the net) as opposed to take a quick second to see if the goalie bites and moves or any passing lanes open up. Once he assessed everything was locked up( he did the right thing. Hard shot at Murray under the arm.

 

[francis246]

This is the issue - our prime PP guy has the puck in a dangerous position but isn't actually a real threat to score, and the other guys are all covered because of it.

That's exactly the issue.

outside of Matthews there is not a single person on the leafs that I believe would have burried that shot. It was well defended and well covered in net

 

[Maria Sharapova]

No disrespect to Marner the issue with him in that spot on pp1 is 2 non shooting threats this isn’t rocket science.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

outside of Matthews there is not a single person on the leafs that I believe would have burried that shot. It was well defended and well covered in net

What about the last 90 games of powerplays Marner has not scored on.

 

[Antropovsky]

He delays because he mishandled the puck and didn't accept in a shooting spot. Truthfully he's better off shooting into the traffic or a rebound from that area with the high/low play.


Full look of the play around 1:14:00 on my link btw

I agree with shooting into traffic or a rebound. Unfortunately I am in a restricted area and can't watch your link.

 

[ShaneFalco]

There are people who are over the top with their dislike for 16 but there are also some who won't accept or even consider a single critique of his game

 

[francis246]

What about the last 90 games of powerplays Marner has not scored on.

mentioned it before earlier in this thread, I dgaf bc Marner isn’t a scorer. His role is to create opportunities for the other guys to score. That’s been his job since day one it’s how he played in junior if you watched any of his games, he has never been a prolific goal scorer so to expect that from him now is on you. It’s why no one from the leafs organization bitches about it, because they don’t have that expectation, it’s only HF boards fans who do and thank God the organization doesn’t panic when we have the #2 PP in the league.

Marner isn’t a perfect player but people bitching about the power play last night need to get a grip

 

[ShaneFalco]

If Nick Ritchie or Mik were on the #1 PP and hadn't scored in.over 100 games fans woukd be all over them. Somehow 16 gets a free pass with some bc he's "not a goal scorer" at 11.mill.
Same people will say he's not overpaid

 

[francis246]

If Nick Ritchie or Mik were on the #1 PP and hadn't scored in.over 100 games fans woukd be all over them. Somehow 16 gets a free pass with some bc he's "not a goal scorer" at 11.mill.
Same people will say he's not overpaid

hes not overpaid and in the next 2-3 years some other bozo GM is going to pay someone who’s not as good as him more than the 10.93 he’s getting and the contract won’t even be an issue anymore. Same thing happened with Nylander. It’s how contracts work, you don’t get paid for potential, you get paid for what you do in that moment in time and at that moment in time he outproduced Matthews the last two years of his ELC, he got 90+ points (something no leaf since Mats Sundin has done) and was the leafs leading scorer, it wasn’t an unreasonable ask. Just because other players took less than what they deserve doesn’t mean Mitch had to.

 

[Gabriel426]

There are people who are over the top with their dislike for 16 but there are also some who won't accept or even consider a single critique of his game

Thats like Trumpism.

 

[Notsince67]

I have no issues. I’m pretty sure scoring 2 goals in the game makes up for 1 bad move on the PP………how did golden boy do. Oh wait, nothing.
I sure hope you can understand that

Actually it was quite irrelevant in that the team had 3 goals before Nylander scored. What is relevant is who did what on the powerplay because that was the discussion. The poster said Marner was the worse player and that is clearly bullshit. You throw up some useless goals that meant nothing to the winning of the game to hide the very pertinent PP flub by willy.
Try staying on topic

 

[Racer88]

Watching the in-zone PP time and entries of the top unit and recording some simple data took all of about 10 minutes. There's no dissertation; just some simple fact-checking in order to correct some clearly inaccurate claims. And it's not about "defending Mitch Marner's honour". It's about being accurate and truthful instead of pushing false narratives.

What’s false about the PP being more productive when Marner was injured and the 2nd PP unit being better last night and actually scoring a PP goal.

 

[Racer88]

Actually it was quite irrelevant in that the team had 3 goals before Nylander scored. What is relevant is who did what on the powerplay because that was the discussion. The poster said Marner was the worse player and that is clearly bullshit. You throw up some useless goals that meant nothing to the winning of the game to hide the very pertinent PP flub by willy.
Try staying on topic

I was simply trying to defend Willy from your deflection as you tried to distract from how bad Marner was on the PP.
I didn’t even get into the fact that Marner makes almost 4 million per year more then Willy.
Can you remember when Marner last scored on the PP…….or the playoffs for that matter

 

[ACC1224]

I was simply trying to defend Willy from your deflection as you tried to distract from how bad Marner was on the PP

Who was good last night ?

 

[francis246]

What’s false about the PP being more productive when Marner was injured and the 2nd PP unit being better last night and actually scoring a PP goal.

At the end of the day do you realize how silly it sounds to be arguing about which unit is better? Does it really matter at the end of the day? As long as the team wins and one of the units is scoring to keep the metric up does it honestly matter?

if the first unit never scored again on the PP but we won a cup because we had a ton of secondary scoring, would it matter? They are all one team

 

[Racer88]

Who was good last night ?

The penalty kill was awesome last night including Marner on the PK……where he belongs