Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, 2nd (cond) & 3rd (Part II)

[saltming]

I suppose that's fair to point out. (hypothetical because we havn't seen him play on the Leafs yet) We are talking about a person who might see 5 minutes of ice time. His value is in what he represents just sitting on the bench.

So this is all negligible. You would have Moore fetch some other piece instead of re acquiring the one we let go.

Maybe a prospect? Or a pick our way? Or any number of things more valuable then the very slight difference in the 5 minutes of ice time Clifford will perform versus Matt Martin.

We know Dubas envisions more that 5 minutes a night, but yes, we won't know until games are played and how he fits.
It's always a gamble, you just have to do your due diligence then throw the dice.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I hope you've been keeping abreast of the situation

I just want cups edit: big new shined cups to sip out of hahaaaa

 

[Bluelines]

African or European?

I don't know...... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!

 

[Walshy7]

the Sun is trash but it still should be considered a paper and it did use to have a good sports section before the internet killed it

but i guess i should switch to getting all my information from homer leaf fan bloggers so i don't trigger people like you

used to have, so you agree its garbage now and shouldn't be used as a source for leaf info.

England used to have an empire spanning 80% of the world now it looks like even Scotland is going to vote out, i wouldn't be asking them about modern expansionism

 

[saltming]

He didn't fit in our system because our coach didn't like him. We all know the Holl story, you can't judge a player's value only based on a coaches opinion otherwise we could say Trotz seems to like Martin, therefore Martin has value.

We don't know Babcock didnt like him.
When Martin was here he always seemed too slow out there, always behind the play. Team playing style and player usage can influence greatly how a player looks and performs with a team, just ask Larry Murphy

 

[Walshy7]

Clifford isn't going to want 1.6 next year. Did we just get a rental then?

for 2x 3rds and moore? yeah potentially what do you expect for that price?

 

[deprw]

Like a welcoming mat?

I hope he makes his welcoming mat out of Marchand.

 

[Rogie]

The simplest way to say it is:

They both fight, the difference in skill, maybe Clifford handles the puck a bit better and skates a bit faster, but, that's not the point. They both hit quite a bit, but, bottom line, they both FIGHT.

That's how they are similar and what the Leafs had with Martin and now have with Clifford and what we have NOT had since Martin was traded.

And, this is important.

Dubas won't say, certainly doesn't want to suggest, that having a 'fighter' is okay, he doesn't want to go there, IT'S 2020 FOLKS, fighting, nooooo, that's not good,

but, I'm suspicious that, he knows or thinks, yup,

IT DOES STILL MATTER IN THE NHL.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Research in what? I just pointed out the order of events with the logic behind it.

What exactly am I getting wrong here?

How about this:
Maple Leafs get an 'important acquisition' in Kyle Clifford - Sportsnet.ca
At the same time, while we certainly shouldn’t expect Clifford to contribute a ton of offence, it’s worth pointing out that his 52.12 Corsi-for percentage (CF%) at 5-on-5 last season was the second-best mark on the Kings, and he’s at 55.18 per cent this season. When Clifford was on the ice for the Kings at 5-on-5 this season, the team generated 57.08 per cent of the high danger chances. Los Angeles was outscored in these situations, but that could be more indicative of the team’s status as a bottom-feeder that gets outscored on most nights.

Or this

Clifford is in the final year of a five-year, $8-million dollar contract. He comes with a cap hit of $1.6-million, but the Kings will retain 50 per cent of that, so the Leafs only have to deal with $800,000 on the books

Or this:
\https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020...xchange-for-trevor-moore-and-two-draft-picks/
A fan favourite who remained beloved among the fan base and in the locker room even through the recent lean seasons in LA, Kyle Clifford has a couple of Cup rings to his name, plays a mean game, and can chip in 5-10 goals / 20-25 points / 80-100 penalty minutes a season in a bottom-six role. The 29-year-old has averaged around 11 minutes a night in LA this year, scoring six goals and 14 points in 53 games. He has historically stacked up as a higher-end fourth-liner in terms of his possession and defensive impacts on an LA team that won its Cups playing a tight-checking, heavy possession game.
You basically know what you are getting out of Clifford on most nights: While he lacks for foot speed, he brings 10-12 honest and hardnosed minutes of north-south hockey. A capable fighter, Clifford is known to step in for his teammates and has earned respect around the league for his character in that area. However you may value it (or not), that isn’t a trait the Leafs had much (any?) of in their ranks.

Or this:
Maple Leafs get an 'important acquisition' in Kyle Clifford - Sportsnet.ca

“When people think about the Kings over the last decade, Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty, Jonathan Quick get brought up, but Clifford was there for both of the teams that won the Stanley Cup,” the LA Times’ Jack Harris said on the Fan 590’s Lead Off. “He was one of the longest-tenured guys in that room and had really become a leadership guy in the way that he would play with a lot of young guys when they would get called up, playing in the bottom six of the forward lines.”

or you could have had healthy scratch often, 3-4 min a night Matt Martin at 2.5 who can hit, but doesn't do much else. Great call

 

[saltming]

The simplest way to say it is:

They both fight, the difference in skill, maybe Clifford handles the puck a bit better and skates a bit faster, but, that's not the point. They both hit quite a bit, but, bottom line, they both FIGHT.

That's how they are similar and what the Leafs had with Martin and now have with Clifford and what we have NOT had since Martin was traded.

And, this is important.

Dubas won't say, certainly doesn't want to suggest, that having a 'fighter' is okay, he doesn't want to go there, IT'S 2020 FOLKS, fighting, nooooo, that's not good,

but, I'm suspicious that, he knows or thinks, yup,

IT DOES STILL MATTER IN THE NHL.

I posted Dubas' quote saying that he knows that role is needed, but the skill in the player is the difference.

 

[hotpaws]

used to have, so you agree its garbage now and shouldn't be used as a source for leaf info.

England used to have an empire spanning 80% of the world now it looks like even Scotland is going to vote out, i wouldn't be asking them about modern expansionism

it's just as garbage as Mirtle and the homer blogger articles that keep getting posted on here

 

[ShaneFalco]

Clifford isn't going to want 1.6 next year. Did we just get a rental then?

You clearly know nothing about the player or the contract and yet you're so sure you're right

 

[Drytoast]

for 2x 3rds and moore? yeah potentially what do you expect for that price?

I guess I was expecting for Dubas to shore up problems more long term. Our problem right now is in trying to get into the playoffs. Do you think Clifford is going to help us do that?

 

[Walshy7]

So the discussion comes down to "worth"...? It's men playing a boys game getting paid millions to do it? Clifford is not "worth" $1.6 million either... Worth is decided by the person writing the cheque. If I think you are worth $1,000 to tell me one joke, I decide your "worth" to me... the next guy might say you are a bad joke teller and you are not worth anything.

same stats as each other i think you can infer 'worth' from that no? Martin is overpaid and we decided he wasnt worth it (which he is not) Yeah to me that type of player is a $1M player, oh we are paying clifford $800K? ok then. Dubas et al may think $1.6 is fine or $2M who knows. Matt martin want in the team and was overpaid by lou so he was moved its pretty simple.

The person who pays me $1000 for one joke is clearly an idiot and im laughing all the way to the bank as i was able to fleece this person. Matt Martin probably laughing all the way to bank he was able to con old man lou.

 

[Drytoast]

You clearly know nothing about the player or the contract and yet you're so sure you're right

LOL. Well then sir, enlighten me. What did I get wrong?

 

[Walshy7]

it's just as garbage as Mirtle and the homer blogger articles that keep getting posted on here

ok? so its all garbage. I dont care for any of them, but mirtle is not close to as garbage as Simmons or Feschuk or that bald guy i cant remember his name now

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This post is graded double D

Yeah and Double T trouble if i keep going. Yes Mam

 

[Walshy7]

I guess I was expecting for Dubas to shore up problems more long term. Our problem right now is in trying to get into the playoffs. Do you think Clifford is going to help us do that?

no? neither is martin though. I dont see your point here? he got a depth forward and a backup, we desperately needed a backup he added a 3rd and got a depth forward seems pretty simple here

 

[inthe6ix]

The British sun has a wayyyyyy better version of this.

of course

 

[nuck]

I think the most important take away from this Clifford addition is that apparently Keefe has the GMs ear, and now at least GM and Coach are working together as opposed in the past.

Keefe wants a new and better backup goalie and a tough 4th liner that can play and the GM fulfilled the wish list.

Cliffords hits are way down the last couple of years even as his point production crept up. Age? Maturity? Worse team around him makes him change his game to do more?

It will be interesting to see if the 14 hits per 60 guy is still there. I am not expecting a big impact from a 10:00 a night guy but Moore got more TOI per game this season than Clifford has ever gotten and produced nothing. Its hard not to think his offense will do as much as his ability to fight.

 

[saltming]

Yeah and Double T trouble if i keep going. Yes Mam

We might get kicked out of this thread like a couple bouncing betties

 

[Cotton]

But Martin is a big time hitter and usually among the league leaders in hits and hits/60

Leafs are getting a poor man's Matt Martin, but for a much lower price point.

PS. .The NYI 4th line of Martin -- Cizikas -- Clutterbuck might be the best 4th line in the NHL and they can be played against any line including other teams top lines defensively.

Martin has twice the hits at half the production, poor possession, and is riding a 102% PDO. His only fight this year was against Brandon Smith.

Clifford has half the hits but twice the production riding a 96% PDO. His possession numbers are usually good. And he last fought 6'7 Jarred Tinordi, and has no history of picking his spots.

We got a tough hockey player in Clifford, Martin isn't a hockey player, he's the pansy version of Colton Orr.

Speaking of which, Orr lives in NY and could likely step in and be just as effective as Martin is now, he just needs to run around for 10 minutes throwing hits and let Cizikas, like now, do most of the work.

 

[Drytoast]

no? neither is martin though. I dont see your point here? he got a depth forward and a backup, we desperately needed a backup he added a 3rd and got a depth forward seems pretty simple here

for 2 months???

It's not a "depth forward" here. This is a specific role we are clearly lacking for the duration of a season. Moore was a "depth player"

I have full expectations given what Dubas has said about the role Clifford fills in that he will try to resign him. And it won't be for 1.6.

 

[hotpaws]

ok? so its all garbage. I dont care for any of them, but mirtle is not close to as garbage as Simmons or Feschuk or that bald guy i cant remember his name now

Mirtle is just as bad if not worse since he decided to be the the Dube's publicist .

 

[Wafflewhipper]

We might get kicked out of this thread like a couple bouncing betties

Bounced right out of here sideway up, down and slapped in the face hahaaaa