Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, 2nd (cond) & 3rd (Part II)

[saltming]

9

Honest question;

Did the Leafs just basically re acquire Matt Martin?

No Martin still plays for the Islanders.


That's the debate going on.
Clifford is better than Martin in many ways, but some are arguing he's not, though his advance stats say he is, while he brings the toughness and grit Martin did.

 

[Bluelines]

Honest question;

Did the Leafs just basically re acquire Matt Martin?

In a way they are similar players, grinders who can fight.

At the end of the day Hockey is a physical sport, you need some of your guys to play physically.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

I don't see any of our so-called stars being run at. I see them as staying away from the corners and the boards and waving their sticks at opposing players. I don't quite know what Clifford is supposed to protect them from. The way that I see it, all the lofty plans that Dubas had failed and now he is desperately trying to undo the mess that he created. But, I do love all the Dubas fans that see him as doing no wrong. I, on the other hand, see a guy who took a 105 point team and destroyed it.

Matthews #1 in 5v5 takeaways
Matthews #4 overall in takeaways
Marner # 6 overall in takeaways

Tough to have those numbers when you are staying away from the corners and waiving your stick at people, no?

But sure...don't let FACTS get in the way of your misguided OPINION.

 

[Drytoast]

9

No Martin still plays for the Islanders.


That's the debate going on.
Clifford is better than Martin in many ways, but some are arguing he's not, though his advance stats say he is, while he brings the toughness and grit Martin did.

LOL.

Well he's also smaller. Would it be fair to say that the statistical difference is somewhat negligible to someone with this role in the DIFFERENCE between these two players?

And if that's the case, yes...we just re acquired the same player we gave away for nothing.

2.5 Martin vs 1.6 Clifford. (we don't know what he will want to re up for, my guess is it's more than 1.6)

 

[Mess]

Wouldn't be surprised if Clifford is signed before seasons over especially if he comes at a cheaper cost than what LA was paying him.

Reading between the lines I think Dubas was targeting him for a while.

If Clifford is resigned then Leafs conditional 3rd becomes a 2nd round pick in 2021.

 

[Walshy7]

LOL.

Well he's also smaller. Would it be fair to say that the statistical difference is somewhat negligible to someone with this role in the DIFFERENCE between these two players?

And if that's the case, yes...we just re acquired the same player we gave away for nothing.

2.5 Martin vs 1.6 Clifford. (we don't know what he will want to re up for, my guess is it's more than 1.6)

then he walks? it isnt rocket science we save a 2nd too that way

 

[Drytoast]

In a way they are similar players, grinders who can fight.

At the end of the day Hockey is a physical sport, you need some of your guys to play physically.

The scary narrative I am painting here that people seem to want to avoid is the poor choice it was in giving up what we already had.

A tough guy who filled that role and who got along amazing well with our super stars.

We mad a dumb choice. "The power play will be our enforcer"

I'm glad we have a tough guy again, I'm not glad we had to re learn basic math again due to piss poor "millennial think". You know? The kind that argued against boomers like Cherry for arguing the value of an enforcer even in this day and age?

 

[ShaneFalco]

The scary narrative I am painting here that people seem to want to avoid is the poor choice it was in giving up what we already had.

A tough guy who filled that role and who got along amazing well with our super stars.

We mad a dumb choice. "The power play will be our enforcer"

I'm glad we have a tough guy again, I'm not glad we had to reinvent the wheel.

Just.... stop
If you can't see the difference in the players or contracts, that's on you

 

[Bluelines]

The similarity being that the next player that slashes Matthews JT or Marner across the wrists is likely to need to schedule an appointment with his doctor to have his nose realigned.

For me I think guys like Clifford don't make the other team less aggressive with our stars, I think it makes them less comfortable going into the corners or crashing the net, it makes them do double takes. Guys like Gallagher who are famous for crashing the crease might think twice if Cliffy is on the ice. I can't wait for Marchand to meet our new guard dog...

Cliffy is also a big body who is known to crash the crease, guys that are like that create space for his linemates. If you are smart you trail Cliffy by 15-20 feet so you can capitalize on rebounds and the traffic he will create in front of the crease. I think I heard Cliffy can play any of the 3 forward positions, if Kappy could play with him, it will open up space for Kappy. Kappy is a pure shooter, he's not a pass first guy, when you have the goalie distracted that benefits the shooters.

 

[saltming]

Martin was on and island in Toronto and to create an effective 4th physical line a tough player needs support and likeness to bang and crash effectively.

When the Kings were winning Cups Clifford had help in LA with the likes of Jordan Nolan and Dwight King riding shotgun and creating mayhem.

Be interesting to see how Clifford is used in TO as even Dubas in his presser yesterday claimed Leafs have very little of his ilk on the roster that brings what he does.

The similarity being that the next player that slashes Matthews JT or Marner across the wrists is likely to need to schedule an appointment with his doctor to have his nose realigned.

Your post is my point though: Martin didnt fit without team and play style, whereas Clifford stands a good chance of fitting because he skates better than Martin, defends better and is a better possession player. This last point is the linchpin imo, this shows the way he thinks the game is more aligned with our team philosophy

 

[Bluelines]

Just.... stop

Why? He speaks the truth.

 

[Drytoast]

Just.... stop

Face up to piss poor decision making. It makes ya less likely to make poor choices in the future.

 

[saltming]

LOL.

Well he's also smaller. Would it be fair to say that the statistical difference is somewhat negligible to someone with this role in the DIFFERENCE between these two players?

And if that's the case, yes...we just re acquired the same player we gave away for nothing.

2.5 Martin vs 1.6 Clifford. (we don't know what he will want to re up for, my guess is it's more than 1.6)

Here is my take on the difference as I replied to Mess

Your post is my point though: Martin didnt fit without team and play style, whereas Clifford stands a good chance of fitting because he skates better than Martin, defends better and is a better possession player. This last point is the linchpin imo, this shows the way he thinks the game is more aligned with our team philosophy

 

[ShaneFalco]

Face up to piss poor decision making. It makes ya less likely to make poor choices in the future.

Do some research man before spouting this crap

 

[Drytoast]

Here is my take on the difference as I replied to Mess

I suppose that's fair to point out. (hypothetical because we havn't seen him play on the Leafs yet) We are talking about a person who might see 5 minutes of ice time. His value is in what he represents just sitting on the bench.

So this is all negligible. You would have Moore fetch some other piece instead of re acquiring the one we let go.

Maybe a prospect? Or a pick our way? Or any number of things more valuable then the very slight difference in the 5 minutes of ice time Clifford will perform versus Matt Martin.

 

[Bluelines]

Your post is my point though: Martin didnt fit without team and play style, whereas Clifford stands a good chance of fitting because he skates better than Martin, defends better and is a better possession player. This last point is the linchpin imo, this shows the way he thinks the game is more aligned with our team philosophy

He didn't fit in our system because our coach didn't like him. We all know the Holl story, you can't judge a player's value only based on a coaches opinion otherwise we could say Trotz seems to like Martin, therefore Martin has value.

 

[Drytoast]

Do some research man before spouting this crap

Research in what? I just pointed out the order of events with the logic behind it.

What exactly am I getting wrong here?

 

[Walshy7]

The scary narrative I am painting here that people seem to want to avoid is the poor choice it was in giving up what we already had.

A tough guy who filled that role and who got along amazing well with our super stars.

We mad a dumb choice. "The power play will be our enforcer"

I'm glad we have a tough guy again, I'm not glad we had to re learn basic math again due to piss poor "millennial think". You know? The kind that argued against boomers like Cherry for arguing the value of an enforcer even in this day and age?

FOR $2.5M!!!!!! how hard is this to understand? Martin isnt worth more than the $1.6M that clifford earns, blame lou for martin leaving then

 

[Bluelines]

Do some research man before spouting this crap

Which unnamed research would you like him to do?

Why don't you do some research... What Is the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow?

 

[Walshy7]

Which unnamed research would you like him to do?

Why don't you do some research... What Is the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow?

doesn't it have 2 empty 'alves of coconuts?

 

[MarMarSab3]

New Mask

 

[hotpaws]

haha the poster on here that most resembles the sun, this is so poetic

the Sun is trash but it still should be considered a paper and it did use to have a good sports section before the internet killed it

but i guess i should switch to getting all my information from homer leaf fan bloggers so i don't trigger people like you

 

[Drytoast]

FOR $2.5M!!!!!! how hard is this to understand? Martin isnt worth more than the $1.6M that clifford earns, blame lou for martin leaving then

Clifford isn't going to want 1.6 next year. Did we just get a rental then?

 

[4thline]

Which unnamed research would you like him to do?

Why don't you do some research... What Is the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow?

African or European?

 

[Bluelines]

FOR $2.5M!!!!!! how hard is this to understand? Martin isnt worth more than the $1.6M more than clifford,

So the discussion comes down to "worth"...? It's men playing a boys game getting paid millions to do it? Clifford is not "worth" $1.6 million either... Worth is decided by the person writing the cheque. If I think you are worth $1,000 to tell me one joke, I decide your "worth" to me... the next guy might say you are a bad joke teller and you are not worth anything.