Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, 2nd (cond) & 3rd (Part II)

[Menzinger]

Cody Ceci gets 20 mins of ice time because Kyle Dubas has created such a piss poor blue line he has to play 20 mins a night.

Youre side stepping the point and trying to get extra jabs in on Dubas.

Point is, icetime alone doesnt tell you how impactful a player is. We both know this....

 

[Pookie]

He values good players who are undervalued - i dont think "style" has as much to do woth things as younsuggest - other than they need to be able to fit within a a strong puck movement and control system (so stone hands arent welcome). And whose available at that moment mlmebtfor in tine for the right cost.

Spezza was one of the most undervalued players of free agency this past summer - so of course hes going to pounce on a bargin player like that.

Sparks is an odd choice to bring in when talking about "grit" too....

Yep... mistake on my part.

 

[Pookie]

Youre side stepping the point and trying to get extra jabs in on Dubas.

Point is, icetime alone doesnt tell you how impactful a player is. We both know this....

The same point totals give us a clue....... well some of us

 

[KuleminFan41]

I understand but at this point, I am looking for a lot more than just an in the playoff finish.

The Leafs could make it to the conference finals for all we know. That's why I'm saying wait until the end of the season, which includes the playoffs if the Leafs make it, to make a judgement call on Dubas. Relax a little bit

 

[kb]

5 minutes on the entire season to date, or 7 seconds a game.

Don't ruin it for him, he's on a roll.

Can't help but feel I'm missing a 't' in there somewhere.....

 

[kb]

The same point totals give us a clue....... well some of us

Ah, like Kadri being in the top 4 in forward scoring every full season other than his last? Do those point totals make him great?

 

[deprw]

Man... you really don’t like Matt Martin.

What’s the over under on how long it will take you to try to run Clifford out of town too?

I can say that I liked Matt Martin, Connor Brown, Nazem Kadri and Nikita Zaitsev, but we can't keep all of them because of salary cap. Matt Martin was wasted cap space for us with his contract. He was stop gap toughness during our rebuild to shield our younger players.

Islanders can afford overpaid grinders because they don't have Matthews, Marner, Tavares etc. They have Barzal though.

We can afford 800k physical grinder until playoffs any day and twice on sunday, because of injuries. Clifford isn't just tough ass grinder, he is also good possession player and character guy.

We don't know if Dubas made this trade with Kings more so for Clifford or Campbell, but we can guess that it might have been for goaltending. If so it would be bold to assume that Dubas made 180 degree turn, because of Kyle Clifford. I think he was suitable and available player that fit the bill for us.

Kind of dream come true player for us fans, because his one of rare breed. Physical beast that can fight and play hockey. I don't think he'd fit our long term plans, but nice addition for this season.

 

[1specter]

Nope

You said Martin PKs, he doesn't. If anyone tried to say Clifford did and then it turned out he did it for 7 seconds a game, you would be all over them. The fact that you have to lie to support your argument, and then you double down when you're shown to be wrong says it all.

 

[Warden of the North]

If you want an example of why its dangerous to pay big money for grit, Lucic and Ferland are prime current examples.

Dubas has said many times he likes grit, but he will not sacrifice skill for it.

Player can be skilled and lack grit.

Player cannot be gritty and lack skill.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Man... you really don’t like Matt Martin.

What’s the over under on how long it will take you to try to run Clifford out of town too?

People love Matt Martin for under one million, just not two and a half million.

 

[Pookie]

Ah, like Kadri being in the top 4 in forward scoring every full season other than his last? Do those point totals make him great?

Yep. He was a very good player.

Unreliable.

But very good.

Especially after he turned his life around.

 

[Pookie]

I can say that I liked Matt Martin, Connor Brown, Nazem Kadri and Nikita Zaitsev, but we can't keep all of them because of salary cap. Matt Martin was wasted cap space for us with his contract. He was stop gap toughness during our rebuild to shield our younger players.

Islanders can afford overpaid grinders because they don't have Matthews, Marner, Tavares etc. They have Barzal though.

We can afford 800k physical grinder until playoffs any day and twice on sunday, because of injuries. Clifford isn't just tough ass grinder, he is also good possession player and character guy.

We don't know if Dubas made this trade with Kings more so for Clifford or Campbell, but we can guess that it might have been for goaltending. If so it would be bold to assume that Dubas made 180 degree turn, because of Kyle Clifford. I think he was suitable and available player that fit the bill for us.

Kind of dream come true player for us fans, because his one of rare breed. Physical beast that can fight and play hockey. I don't think he'd fit our long term plans, but nice addition for this season.

I am optimistic now that Dubas has acknowledged this role exists.

I’m leery of contracts to players over 30 so I have thought of this specific move as a rental.

However, it would be weird for Dubas to go after this type of player and to have that role vacant next year. Especially if they have success.

Nice to see some grit and toughness to augment the speed and skill.

Balance. It’s all we’ve wanted.

 

[Pookie]

You said Martin PKs, he doesn't. If anyone tried to say Clifford did and then it turned out he did it for 7 seconds a game, you would be all over them. The fact that you have to lie to support your argument, and then you double down when you're shown to be wrong says it all.

Pretty audacious post.

It’s not lying to say Martin is tapped to play on the PK.

He’s played close to 1:00 on the PK in each of his last couple of games.

To say 7 secs a game as if it’s a shift overlap is misleading at best.

Pathetic man.

Dubas is fine with his 180. Give it up and cheer for Clifford and the Leafs.

 

[Pookie]

People love Matt Martin for under one million, just not two and a half million.

Some people here do. They are the ones... like me... who have posted in favour of physicality when it was clear that we were the softest team in the NHL.

Some other people here think the game has changed and held Dubas up as the messiah of Moneypuck.

Clifford back on the roster is giving them a leading role in a Pepto Bismol commercial.

For them, it’s not Matt Martin vs Kyle Clifford. It’s awesome that we.... eventually... got a Martin for a lower price.

It’s finding a way to internally justify 1 of 12 roster positions being dedicated to toughness over speed and skill.

 

[1specter]

Pretty audacious post.

It’s not lying to say Martin is tapped to play on the PK.

He’s played close to 1:00 on the PK in each of his last couple of games.

To say 7 secs a game as if it’s a shift overlap is misleading at best.

Pathetic man.

Dubas is fine with his 180. Give it up and cheer for Clifford and the Leafs.

He's played 5 minutes all season. Please don't lie.

 

[Gallagbi]

Well the trade deadline is the time crunch. No panic though.

Just a deadline if you want to address something. Goaltending for sure. That's a major gaffe he is fixing. With Andersen UFA after next season and no replacement in sight... this is an even bigger issue beyond back up.

It's not the TD yet though we still weeks out. We did need immediate help in net though and a move was made.

And as for Clifford, he could have stuck to his plan of skill and speed over physicality. But didn't.

We should commend him for his 180 and recognizing a weakness in his plan.

Clifford skills seem to be in line with our other 4th liners in Moore, Goat, Timo.

You could argue Martin wasn't that far off, but we were also paying him more than our fourth line combined. Seems like that was as much of the issue.

 

[killer1980]

The Leafs could make it to the conference finals for all we know. That's why I'm saying wait until the end of the season, which includes the playoffs if the Leafs make it, to make a judgement call on Dubas. Relax a little bit

Fair enough! I'll talk to you when Leafs' season is over.

 

[Pinto]

I’ve been a big fan of Clifford for a while, I love this deal.

 

[Pookie]

He's played 5 minutes all season. Please don't lie.

You don’t think folks can check this stuff?

Feb 6 vs LA 0:45 SH TOI
Feb 4 vs DAL 0:58 SH TOI

7 seconds a game? Pathetic argument dude.

 

[1specter]

You don’t think folks can check this stuff?

Feb 6 vs LA 0:45 SH TOI
Feb 4 vs DAL 0:58 SH TOI

7 seconds a game? Pathetic argument dude.

What are you even arguing? You cherry picked two games? LMAO what a garbage argument. 5 minutes on the season, use your counting skills,I know it's hard

 

[Pookie]

What are you even arguing? You cherry picked two games? LMAO what a garbage argument. 5 minutes on the season, use your counting skills,I know it's hard

Such an odd thing.

You reply directly to my post in which I said:

He’s played close to 1:00 on the PK in each of his last couple of games.

And I show you that he has played close to 1:00 on the PK in each of his last couple of games.

Where’s the Kinder Surprise dude?

 

[Warden of the North]

Campbell has been excellent.

Clifford has been unimpressive.

 

[7even]

I quite like Mr. Campbell. Across his two games, he made the routine saves, and that's all I really expect out of my backup.

 

[Kiwi]

Campbell has been excellent.

Clifford has been unimpressive.

Clifford isn't a 3rd liner, he's playing to high up the lineup

When Nylander comes back and Clifford's on the 4th line he's going to be in a situation more suited to his ability

 

[Pookie]

Campbell has been excellent.

Excellent tonight.

.867 last night wasn’t “excellent”.