Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, 2nd (cond) & 3rd (Part II)

[saltming]

That's fine.

But contributing on the PK does mean that a player does not need to be hidden. That's just a falsehood.

Sheltered 5v5 is a thing and it does make a difference

 

[Polaris1010]

Well.... here are the other metrics:

I really wonder if the new player is a stiff in this point in his career.

Remember any LA Kings games? Who was their fastest player? The whole team plays slow.

That's what they say. Going hard and deep in the playoffs trims years off the hockey career.

What's the point of being tough when you cannot keep up with the pace and stay in the game. The after whistle scrums is the only opportunity to be tough if the foot speed is no longer there. Martin in his last days here, he could not keep up with the play, could not deliver any body checks like he used to. He got old, and got slower. Here is the new guy, who already is old. How slow is he, or fast? We'll find out.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Lou likes winning I guess.

Hey... change of subject... in trading Martin... the Leafs got a back up goalie... Eamon McAdam.

He's no longer with the team.

How many goalies is Dubas going to go through?

Guess he misses Hunter's player assessment capabilities.

Cuz you weren’t getting anything for Martin
This is just a Dubas thing so I’m going to have a beer and move on.

 

[Menzinger]

Well.... here are the other metrics:

Player	Pos	PIM	Yrs Active	GP	G	A	PTS	Plus/Minus	EV Goals	PP Goals	SH Goals	Shots	S%	TOI	Goals/Game	Assists/Game	PTS/Game
Clifford	LW	819	10	660	60	69	129	-12	59	1	0	879	6.8	10.3	0.09	0.1	1.33
Martin	LW	941	11	667	60	70	130	-37	59	1	0	776	7.7	11.0	0.09	0.1	1.15

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Okay?

This still doesnt say anything about how one of them is much better at controlling play than the other....

Mike Babcock is a coach whose entire playing philosophy is built around reliable veteran grinders and even he had his limits when it came to Martin.

 

[Pookie]

Cuz you weren’t getting anything for Martin
This is just a Dubas thing so I’m going to have a beer and move on.

I assumed you’d already had a couple

 

[tmlms13]

Who gets to keep the nickname Soup? Ilya was here first but Campbell has been in the NHL longer.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Well.... here are the other metrics:

Player	Pos	PIM	Yrs Active	GP	G	A	PTS	Plus/Minus	EV Goals	PP Goals	SH Goals	Shots	S%	TOI	Goals/Game	Assists/Game	PTS/Game
Clifford	LW	819	10	660	60	69	129	-12	59	1	0	879	6.8	10.3	0.09	0.1	1.33
Martin	LW	941	11	667	60	70	130	-37	59	1	0	776	7.7	11.0	0.09	0.1	1.15

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You're using points per game and +/- to compare how much two grinders contribute to possession?

I mean I'm not surprised.

 

[Polaris1010]

Who gets to keep the nickname Soup? Ilya was here first but Campbell has been in the NHL longer.

I would think it would be Mikehev.

I think it would be what the snowflakes today call cultural appropriation if they give Campbell the nick name soup.

 

[Its not your fault]

I really wonder if the new player is a stiff in this point in his career.

Remember any LA Kings games? Who was their fastest player? The whole team plays slow.

That's what they say. Going hard and deep in the playoffs trims years off the hockey career.

What's the point of being tough when you cannot keep up with the pace and stay in the game. The after whistle scrums is the only opportunity to be tough if the foot speed is no longer there. Martin in his last days here, he could not keep up with the play, could not deliver any body checks like he used to. He got old, and got slower. Here is the new guy, who already is old. How slow is he, or fast? We'll find out.

LOL okay love to met you one day find you hilarious.

 

[Its not your fault]

I would think it would be Mikehev.

I think it would be what the snowflakes today call cultural appropriation if they give Campbell the nick name soup.

Whats Campbell's the other is Lipton or eats like a meal.

 

[ULF_55]

I assumed you’d already had a couple

No just got home from work via Costco

41 year old whiskey or 15 year old Rhum?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I think it best we stop here while the jugs are full. We don't want to get trapped in the cleavage of our discussion

Lol nip this in the bud then lol

 

[tmlms13]

No just got home from work via Costco

41 year old whiskey or 15 year old Rhum?

Why not both?

 

[Pookie]

No just got home from work via Costco

41 year old whiskey or 15 year old Rhum?

I just can’t seem to enjoy a whiskey. Folks say it’s an acquired taste but by the time I acquire a taste for it.... I will have outlived my liver.

Innis & Gunn in Whiskey barrels though... that’s some good stuff.

 

[Pookie]

You're using points per game and +/- to compare how much two grinders contribute to possession?

I mean I'm not surprised.

Trotz and the Islanders don’t really focus on “possession” so why would you measure the players with a specific style of play in mind?

Odd.

 

[Stamkos4life]

And a month or two after that 'couple of months later' comment and things have swayed a bit back to the center?

NK: 49 games played, 18 goals, 16 assists, 34 points.
TB: 54 games played, 5 goals, 26 assists, 31 points.
AK: 49/8/13/21
CR: 8/0/2/2

Perhaps not such a lopsided win for Colorado as some think?

I have never said it was a lopsided win for Colorado. Right from the start it seemed fairly even imo except that barrie is signed for just this season where as kadri is signed for another 2 seasons at a low 4.5.

Re the bolded: I meant it's not looking like a huge win for dubas but you are correct, barrie has been producing lately. Plays like garbage in our own end but at least hes getting assists.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Uhhh... what? Did you stop watching the day Babcock got fired? Barrie is almost a PPG player or something and has been great since then. Pretending he's still terrible because you don't like Dubas is "wild".

Have you watched him in his own end? I'm glad hes putting up some assists but we needed a right shot defensive d. Not barrie.

We wasted an awesome trade chip in kadri on a guy who only brings offense.

 

[sxvnert]

Hilarious thank you vid from the kings

 

[KuleminFan41]

I would agree with you if the Leafs were coming off outa the playoff seasons but they aren't. When he came in management touted him as the boy genius that was going to build on what we had (a 105 point season) and take us to the promised land. Instead we regressed last year and quite a bit this year. Now we are hoping and cheering for them just to make the playoffs. He has done a complete turnaround on what he said he saw for this team. Sorry, but I'm not cheering for them just to make the playoffs. I would have hoped they would now be contending for the Finals. He's a failure and so is the rest of the management team that put him there.

You're over exaggerating here. The "drop off" in points from season to season can be explained by a few factors.

1-The Leafs went to more shootouts in the 105 point season than they did in the 100 point season. The Leafs won 7 games in a shootout in the 17-18 season, while they won 0 last season. That means that in 17-18, the Leafs had a ROW of 42, while in the 18-19 season they had a ROW of 46. That would be a sign of progression, not having to rely on the shootout.

2-Look at the end of last season, they finished their final 5 games with a record of 1-3-2 . The final 3 games were losses but they had already clinched the playoffs.

3-The back ups were simply worse and lost the Leafs more games . In 17-18, Mcelhinney went 11-5-1 , while in 18-19 Hutchison and Sparks combined for a 10-12-1 record. If Mcelhinney was the goalie when Anderson was hurt, the Leafs likely would have matched that 105 point season.

As for being a failure now? He hasn't been the GM for 2 seasons yet and the Leafs are currently in a playoff spot right as we speak. We asses success and failure at the end of the season, not in the middle of one. There's plenty of time left in the season, relax a bit . Just go look at other teams who have turned their seasons around, like Tampa and Pittsburgh

 

[killer1980]

You're over exaggerating here. The "drop off" in points from season to season can be explained by a few factors.

1-The Leafs went to more shootouts in the 105 point season than they did in the 100 point season. The Leafs won 7 games in a shootout in the 17-18 season, while they won 0 last season. That means that in 17-18, the Leafs had a ROW of 42, while in the 18-19 season they had a ROW of 46. That would be a sign of progression, not having to rely on the shootout.

2-Look at the end of last season, they finished their final 5 games with a record of 1-3-2 . The final 3 games were losses but they had already clinched the playoffs.

3-The back ups were simply worse and lost the Leafs more games . In 17-18, Mcelhinney went 11-5-1 , while in 18-19 Hutchison and Sparks combined for a 10-12-1 record. If Mcelhinney was the goalie when Anderson was hurt, the Leafs likely would have matched that 105 point season.

As for being a failure now? He hasn't been the GM for 2 seasons yet and the Leafs are currently in a playoff spot right as we speak. We asses success and failure at the end of the season, not in the middle of one. There's plenty of time left in the season, relax a bit . Just go look at other teams who have turned their seasons around, like Tampa and Pittsburgh

I understand but at this point, I am looking for a lot more than just an in the playoff finish.

 

[Antropovsky]

Watching Campbells highlights... he sure can be theatrical and acrobatic. He isnt the calming positional type. I do like how comfortable he looks when playing the puck though.

 

[crump]

Some of those kids look really scared of Clifford.

 

[kb]

All wrong
He welcomes toughness but they have to be able to play. Unlike Komarov
Those guys are hard to find
Biggest fallacy out there that he's not into toughness at all

Yeah, he's a "Mess" when he posts.

 

[kb]

I guess for a guy that doesn't believe in physicality, this is a pretty big admission of error.

I really don't care if he has done a 180 though. I don't care if the Dubas backers are having a tough time with the idea of grit.

I'm glad he finally addressed this with at least a look towards not getting pushed around anymore.

A few more wouldn't be a bad idea, either. I did like Moore in the playoffs last year. Noticeable in his determination.

Like the trade overall.

Like the admission of error.

Like rolling the dice on a new goalie but let's call it what it is... a gamble. And it's a bet you have to make. Without Andersen, playoffs go away.

There was no admission of error. He's not trading for 3 minute a night tough guys.

But hey, far be it from me to take away your pious "I told you so" even when he's clearly explained his position on toughness on more than one occasion. I can make up fallacies and fantasies too.

 

[The90]

He was a healthy scratch making 2 million.



One fourth liner isn't a 180. That's really dumb wishful thinking on your part.

Fourth liner or not, it’s still him addressing a position he feels needs addressing