Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, 2nd (cond) & 3rd (Part II)

[Warden of the North]

Excellent tonight.

.867 last night wasn’t “excellent”.

Context.

 

[Pookie]

Clifford isn't a 3rd liner, he's playing to high up the lineup

When Nylander comes back and Clifford's on the 4th line he's going to be in a situation more suited to his ability

If you move Clifford to the 4th line, DubaFans will explode. Dubas wouldn’t trade for a physical player that can’t play up in the line up.

He wouldn’t. Right? Wouldn’t????? Tell me he wouldn’t???????

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Well Campbell did help us get 3/4 points. Not confident Hutch would've done that well. Should've been 4/4 but the rest if the team let him down tonight.

 

[Pookie]

Context.

Sorry.

.867 in a game against the 27th overall team on the tail end of a back to back (they were in Montreal the night before).

Is that enough context to conclude it wasn’t “excellent?”

 

[Warden of the North]

Sorry.

.867 in a game against the 27th overall team on the tail end of a back to back (they were in Montreal the night before).

Is that enough context to conclude it wasn’t “excellent?”

No, its not.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Feeling much more comfortable with Campbell in net than I was with Hutchinson, that's for sure.

 

[Menzinger]

If you move Clifford to the 4th line, DubaFans will explode. Dubas wouldn’t trade for a physical player that can’t play up in the line up.

He wouldn’t. Right? Wouldn’t????? Tell me he wouldn’t???????

You're creating an absurd strawman Pookie

 

[makbeer]

Anyone who just looks at sv% on a single game basis should be instantly removed from any goaltending discussion.

 

[1specter]

Such an odd thing.

You reply directly to my post in which I said:



And I show you that he has played close to 1:00 on the PK in each of his last couple of games.

Where’s the Kinder Surprise dude?

Ah, the goal posts go from 'he PKs', to 'he's PKed the last few games'. Hilarious

 

[Man Bear Pig]

If you move Clifford to the 4th line, DubaFans will explode. Dubas wouldn’t trade for a physical player that can’t play up in the line up.

He wouldn’t. Right? Wouldn’t????? Tell me he wouldn’t???????

What are you even talking about at this point? This and your other post about Campbell are ridiculous.

 

[deprw]

Here is one obvious troll on this thread. No point to continue discussion here. Sometimes it's good to follow this quote:

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" -Mark Twain

 

[Rogie]

I liked Clifford, in both games, I do think he's maybe looking for a hit a little bit more than just letting them come to him, - he knows what the expectations are for sure.

I don't know if it's cause we haven't had a player that hits quite a bit for quite a while, but, i seem to find, and not to be critical or anything, he sure falls down a lot - not David Clarksoness like or anything, but, it's noticeable. Maybe the ice is harder from what he's used to in LA, and he needs to get his skates a bit sharper, or I don't know .... hmm...

 

[Pookie]

You're creating an absurd strawman Pookie

In response to a wish list that included Clifford

1. Josh Anderson
2. Brendan Lemieux
3. Miles Wood
4. Nick Ritchie
5. Kyle Clifford
6. Wayne Simmons (50% Ret)

The reply was..

The bolded guys are all interesting because they can play hockey, but the bottom 3 would look horrendous with our style of play.

And we have similar sentiment across a variety of threads:

.
Does bringing in more Komarov's, Martin's, and Polaks, who we all wanted gone, really make this a better team? Of course not.

They would need to get some top 6 guys who play like grinders, which are so rare they never get dealt.

Lol I said it before.

All a Ryan Reeves or Tom Wilson is gonna do for us is put us in the penalty box even more for that Bruins PP to dust us off even faster in another matchup.

.

These are opinions of course. Not necessarily wrong. Not necessarily right. Just opinions.

Let’s not pretend though that the opinion that Dubas built a speed and skill team and didn’t need to add a 4th liner who couldn’t play up in the line up, did not exist.

It’s well entrenched.

 

[Pookie]

What are you even talking about at this point? This and your other post about Campbell are ridiculous.

Some fans didn’t want a player who couldn’t play up in the speed and skill line up.

Here’s one:

I want the Leafs to get bigger and play with more jam but what's needed is a Wilson or a prime Simmonds/Lucic type.

Those guys can play in the top 6. Guys like Reaves are a dime a dozen.

 

[ToneDog]

In response to a wish list that included Clifford

1. Josh Anderson
2. Brendan Lemieux
3. Miles Wood
4. Nick Ritchie
5. Kyle Clifford
6. Wayne Simmons (50% Ret)

The reply was..



And we have similar sentiment across a variety of threads:







These are opinions of course. Not necessarily wrong. Not necessarily right. Just opinions.

Let’s not pretend though that the opinion that Dubas built a speed and skill team and didn’t need to add a 4th liner who couldn’t play up in the line up, did not exist.

It’s well entrenched.

What offence have the Goat, Moore (gone), Timo, Engvall, AJ, Kappy and Kerfoot to a lesser degree provided lately ? Another Clifford or Hyman in the bottom 6 would be more impactful.

 

[Pookie]

Anyone who just looks at sv% on a single game basis should be instantly removed from any goaltending discussion.

Like this?

JB has a .931 sv% and 2.2GAA in his last 5.

Who knows if he can get back to doing that over longer stretches.

Ok to quote save percentage as a variable in evaluating “excellent” after 5 games?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Campbell has been excellent.

Clifford has been unimpressive.

So far he's been pretty invisible. I hope the Keefe/Dubas system doesn't neuter him. He won't be effective that way.

 

[Pookie]

So far he's been pretty invisible. I hope the Keefe/Dubas system doesn't neuter him. He won't be effective that way.

Something to watch for.

It’s one thing to do a 180 and put the player on the roster. It’s another to use them well.

 

[Morbo]

If you move Clifford to the 4th line, DubaFans will explode. Dubas wouldn’t trade for a physical player that can’t play up in the line up.

He wouldn’t. Right? Wouldn’t????? Tell me he wouldn’t???????

He wants his fourth line to be able to play too.

do you need everything explained to you 100 times?

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

You're creating an absurd strawman Pookie

There are plenty of times when I agree with him initially, but then he makes 1000 follow-up posts with changing goalposts or definitions or whatever and nitpicks everything to death. It's a lousy way to make a point or win anyone over to your side.

Sometimes less is more. And some of his points are so trivial they're not worth the bother.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Feeling much more comfortable with Campbell in net than I was with Hutchinson, that's for sure.

You mean you don't hold your breath every time the opponents are taking ANY type of shot at our goalie? Then I agree with you on this. Just don't let in bad goals...if it's a great shot...fine..but every time Hutch got a shot on him I expected it to go in....and he lived up to my nightmare quite often unfortunately.

Campell can't possibly be that bad....Dubas should have realized Hutch was bad from pre season...they miss the playoffs ...it's on Duby...

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Campbell has been excellent.

Clifford has been unimpressive.

I thought Clifford was supposed to hit and grind and do all that stuff we lacked. He looks like he is trying to play like the rest of the team...score pretty goals. For all the 'We want skill on the 3rd and 4th lines' mantra ...we are basically a 2 line team right now...the vaunted skill 4th line is garbage with the Goat centering it...the 3rd line is barely any better except for Spezza playing above his pay grade....this is not going to work in the playoffs against a low scoring...good D.

 

[Warden of the North]

I thought Clifford was supposed to hit and grind and do all that stuff we lacked. He looks like he is trying to play like the rest of the team...score pretty goals. For all the 'We want skill on the 3rd and 4th lines' mantra ...we are basically a 2 line team right now...the vaunted skill 4th line is garbage with the Goat centering it...the 3rd line is barely any better except for Spezza playing above his pay grade....this is not going to work in the playoffs against a low scoring...good D.

Here in is the exact issue that I am scared of and I suspect that Dubas and management is.

Toughness is extremely hard to quantifiy and risky to pay for.

Now, Clifford has only played two games so he gets more of a shot, but hes been entirely unimpressive through two games.

 

[Dough72]

Here in is the exact issue that I am scared of and I suspect that Dubas and management is.

Toughness is extremely hard to quantifiy and risky to pay for.

Now, Clifford has only played two games so he gets more of a shot, but hes been entirely unimpressive through two games.

I feel it's the opposite, the safe thing to do is surround your star players with filler who are tough and physical and play solid defensive hockey and do all the heavy lifting for your star players. There is a long history of teams having success this way and especially playoff success. On the other hand I'm not sure how many teams have been built as lop-sided as Dubas's Leafs I don't think there have been many and I don't think a single one has ever won a Stanley Cup. So I think Dubas is the one taking a risk while the teams who leaned more toward surrounding their stars with toughness or defensive play are the ones playing it safe.

 

[ACC1224]

Campbell is looking like an excellent pickup.
Now we just need the team to pick it up.