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Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, 2nd (cond) & 3rd (Part II)

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nuck said:
I think it was more like he dog paddled for 11 games so people soured on him. I don't remember any "free Holl threads" last season, IIRC people here were bashing him pretty good. Also Babs made him a regular this year so was he responsible for demoting him last year or promoting him this year? I think both those decisions were coach and GM. I would also go as far as to say Ceci getting heavy icetime early was at the direction of Dubas as that was his summer add who he could have let walk for the cap space if he chose. It makes sense he needed to know if the guy had real game once he got out of Ottawa. I will blame the Barrie issues on Babcock because the timing was too perfect but I think Holl just seized an opportunity this year that he failed to last season. He looked much better to start this season on a club that was otherwise much better last year.
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I was saying since the Marlies won the cup, on this forum, that Holl was a legit NHLer and was good enough to play on the Leafs. There were people that like his game, not sure what you can bash when a guy is sitting the press box.
 
Stamkos4life said:
"Shocking" that I am willing to wait and see before saying dubas is amazing or that he messed up again?

Remember the kadri trade? So many leaf fans immediately branded the trade a huge win for dubas. Couple months later and the trade isnt looking nearly as good.

I dont understand why you guys are more supportive of dubas than you are of the team. Its wild.
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Uhhh... what? Did you stop watching the day Babcock got fired? Barrie is almost a PPG player or something and has been great since then. Pretending he's still terrible because you don't like Dubas is "wild".
 
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Clark4Ever said:
Kyle Clifford is the type of player who's impact can't be fully measured by analytical data. He's an old school, in your face, heart and soul player that brings so many intangible qualities to the team.
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Logically, anything that happens on the ice would be measurable. If anyone wanted to, and I personally think it would be interesting to see, we could measure whether there's an effect of a player like that throwing a big hit or fighting.
 
Joey Hoser said:
Uhhh... what? Did you stop watching the day Babcock got fired? Barrie is almost a PPG player or something and has been great since then. Pretending he's still terrible because you don't like Dubas is "wild".
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Not sure why people pine so much over Kadri's play this year. I miss the player and person too, despite the suspensions, but this season he's basically been a 50 point player with high-end usage who have stopped driving play completely 5v5.

He's not the same player anymore.
 
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Nithoniniel said:
Not sure why people pine so much over Kadri's play this year. I miss the player and person too, despite the suspensions, but this season he's basically been a 50 point player with high-end usage who have stopped driving play completely 5v5.

He's not the same player anymore.
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Yeah. Love the guy, wish it made sense for him to stay, but it didn't. Barrie has 3 less points than Kadri this year, and Kadri would be playing a smaller role here than he is with the Avs.
 
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Toronto Maple Leafs: Kyle Dubas Improves Team In Reality and Perception With Sneaky Good Trade

Clifford is a better than average fourth liner who has put up Corsi and expected-goals numbers in the 53-55% for his career. That`s really good.
Realistically, Clifford isn’t really bringing more physicality than Moore did, but he’s slightly bigger and a slightly better player.
I guess he will fight more, but somehow I doubt anyone on Toronto wants him to do that.
What I love about this trade is that it fits the exact mold of any Kyle Dubas trade while simultaneously giving the crowd what they want. If this trade was a movie, it’s a crowd pleasing blockbuster tricks you into learning and thinking.

At the very least, Los Angeles is guaranteed at least two third-round selections along with Moore. It’s not very overwhelming, but for a club in a rebuild, they are looking to re-stock their cupboards. There’s no doubt that the Kings are looking to accumulate draft picks, but they should have been able to get a guaranteed second out of this swap.
There will certainly be a portion of their fanbase who are extremely disappointed in the return.
Los Angeles Kings Trade Grade: C+


Time will tell how much better the Leafs have gotten thanks to this swap, but it’s hard to find flaws in this transaction for Toronto.
Toronto Maple Leafs Trade Grade: A-
Trade Winner: Toronto Maple Leafs
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ULF_55 said:
I'd be curious if Keefe would have utilized Martin differently than Babcock?

Martin played less than 8 minutes a night his last season with the Leafs. $2.5mm for a 8 minute a game forward?

If the coach won't play a player, especially in a Cap league, best if you get rid of the coach or the player.
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I’d be curious about that too.

Babcock and Martin ... just think there is something there that wasn’t performance related. Martin stood up for Marner and wonder how all that went.

I think we should be happy that Dubas has addressed the weaknesses he created in goal and with grit.

Onwards and upwards.
 
Nithoniniel said:
Not sure why people pine so much over Kadri's play this year. I miss the player and person too, despite the suspensions, but this season he's basically been a 50 point player with high-end usage who have stopped driving play completely 5v5.

He's not the same player anymore.
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Some Leafs fans always tend to want what they don't have. If Kadri was still a Leaf and was a ~40 point 3rd line center again, nobody would feel like he was irreplaceable. People would probably be begging to trade him for a RHD
 
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Pookie said:
I’d be curious about that too.

Babcock and Martin ... just think there is something there that wasn’t performance related. Martin stood up for Marner and wonder how all that went.

I think we should be happy that Dubas has addressed the weaknesses he created in goal and with grit.

Onwards and upwards.
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Shit you'd still have Komarov and Polak here along with Martin
 
Drytoast said:
This is what we had, then gave up. Then traded for!



It's 2020. Fighting is no longer needed. Our powerplay will be our enforcer...

lol.
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People who state what year it is and say things have changed are usually pushing an unpopular narrative. The NHL could easily ban fighting if they wanted to, they won't, and it will become more frequent again in time because that's what the vast majority wants.

I hated Martin, not a single punch landed in either face during that tilt. He tended to wrestle and wait out fights, which is smart I guess but he's not really accomplishing anything.
 
Drytoast said:
This is what we had, then gave up. Then traded for!



It's 2020. Fighting is no longer needed. Our powerplay will be our enforcer...

lol.
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Amen brother

I’m totally fine with Dubas doing a 180.

Let’s just acknowledge that his plan to out speed and out skill everyone wasn’t going to pan out.

And fortunately he agreed.
 
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