Proposal: Toronto - Calgary

[Flamesjustwin]

The ridiculous downplaying of Backlund needs to stop. Third line forwards don't put up 0.5 ppg in today's substantially lower scoring NHL.

And I'm not going to even touch the defensive part of your post. I mean, if Backlund's merely decent, what does that make Bergeron? Just good? And Monahan, he'd have to be AHL level.

The only time Backlund has had that kind of production is getting top 6 ice time, mostly 1st line minutes.
You know who had better ppg stats then Backlund when he got those minutes in Toronto? Matt Stajan. Most 3rd line C's can put up 0.5ppg getting big minutes. He is a 3rd line C, JVR is a first line scoring winger. It is like arguing Sean Couturier is a better player than Sid Crosby. Just stop.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

One thing Flame fans vastly overrate is Backlund's defensive game. He is decent defensively, a 3rd liner offensively, and that is it. Last year in the first half of the season he was god awful defensively, then he turned it on in the second half. This year he has been ok but Backlund is no Bergeron, not even close.

The only response I have for that is: you're super wrong. No he's not Bergeron, but I'd say he's easily top 30 in the league defensively for forwards. When the Flames rebuild was first starting, I spent entire games just watching Backlund play in detail because he was one of very few good things about the team at that time, and if you don't think he's excellent defensively you may need glasses.

 

[YourAverageFan*]

The only time Backlund has had that kind of production is getting top 6 ice time, mostly 1st line minutes.
You know who had better ppg stats then Backlund when he got those minutes in Toronto? Matt Stajan. Most 3rd line C's can put up 0.5ppg getting big minutes. He is a 3rd line C, JVR is a first line scoring winger. It is like arguing Sean Couturier is a better player than Sid Crosby. Just stop.

And just when I thought all Flames fans were beginning to appreciate the criminally underrated Backlund, who's been by far our best center this season and forms one of the best defensive duo's in the NHL with Frolik.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

The only time Backlund has had that kind of production is getting top 6 ice time, mostly 1st line minutes.
You know who had better ppg stats then Backlund when he got those minutes in Toronto? Matt Stajan. Most 3rd line C's can put up 0.5ppg getting big minutes. He is a 3rd line C, JVR is a first line scoring winger. It is like arguing Sean Couturier is a better player than Sid Crosby. Just stop.

Last season Backlund was 84th in the league in ES TOI/game played of players listed as centres, which puts him on the low end of 2nd line minutes. 94th in PP TOI/game played (on a team that was one of the best penalty-drawing teams in the league). He was getting 1st line minutes in the sense that he was playing against good players, but he sure as hell wasn't getting a high volume of good offensive time; he has never been on the first PP unit, and since his rookie season he's always been buried in the defensive zone as on checking lines. You're really not coming across as very knowledgeable on this.

 

[Halla]

The only time Backlund has had that kind of production is getting top 6 ice time, mostly 1st line minutes.
You know who had better ppg stats then Backlund when he got those minutes in Toronto? Matt Stajan. Most 3rd line C's can put up 0.5ppg getting big minutes. He is a 3rd line C, JVR is a first line scoring winger. It is like arguing Sean Couturier is a better player than Sid Crosby. Just stop.

Is backlund a good two way center? yes. better than JVR? not even close.

he puts up 40 pts for the first time at age 27 and then suddenly goes from underrated to overrated. "he wasnt getting enough ice time" isnt a legitimate excuse, at least not when trying to write off 6 seasons of 10-39pt (bottom 6) production

 

[garyturner3]

No interest in this as a Leaf fan. Not that the pieces coming from Calgary aren't decent, but they're not good enough to warrant a player like JVR IMO. I know it's fashionable these days to talk about how soft JVR is defensively or how he's having a down year or how he only puts up points because he's on TOR and gets 1st line minutes, but these are all ridiculous arguments. Fact of the matter is he's played at a 30 goal pace every year for the last 5 years and this year is no different. That's 1st line material any way you look at it. He's actually on pace to have a career year this year despite all the "down year" talk.

The weak defensive game nonsense is just that.....nonsense. Just because a player isn't a Selke caliber guy does not automatically make him soft or weak. His defensive game is just fine. Not amazing, but not horrible which is par for the course for high scoring wingers. I watch every Leaf game and if JVR was weak you'd think the announcers (from either side) or analysts would be pointing out these defensive deficiencies no? It's only on here that his defense gets ripped apart and mostly by fans that probably don't watch the games. If JVR gets moved, you can guarantee they'll be getting a much better piece in return than a guy like Backlund.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Is backlund a good two way center? yes. better than JVR? not even close.

he puts up 40 pts for the first time at age 27 and then suddenly goes from underrated to overrated. "he wasnt getting enough ice time" isnt a legitimate excuse, at least not when trying to write off 6 seasons of 10-39pt (bottom 6) production

I don't think people are overrating Backlund. They just don't care much for JVR. You can decide that they're underrating JVR, but Backlund is quite fairly a middle six centre; he can play on the 2nd line without being out of place at all, in spite of his production being on the lower end for a 2nd liner. He's produced slightly over half a point/game for the past three seasons.

Rankings in even strength points among centres at Backlund's scoring pace:
2015-16: 49th
2014-15: pro-rates to top 50 with 75+ games played

He only gets 2nd unit PP time, and he's admittedly not the best PP guy (so it's justified), but you're a little off target if you think his production is "bottom 6 production". This isn't 2007. There aren't ten guys breaking 100 points a season anymore.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Is backlund a good two way center? yes. better than JVR? not even close.

he puts up 40 pts for the first time at age 27 and then suddenly goes from underrated to overrated. "he wasnt getting enough ice time" isnt a legitimate excuse, at least not when trying to write off 6 seasons of 10-39pt (bottom 6) production

And yet Gronberg played him more then pretty much anyone in the World Cup before he got injured... Because he sucks right? Backlund is a great two-way player.

 

[Halla]

And yet Gronberg played him more then pretty much anyone in the World Cup before he got injured... Because he sucks right? Backlund is a great two-way player.

didnt say he wasnt a solid two way player. just laughing at the guy who is saying backlund is the best player in this offer.

JVR has 7g/15pts in 16 games this year. Backlund has 1g/7pts in 17 games. JVR is in another tier in terms of offensive ability. If Backlund is the main piece coming back, leafs look else where (for a top 4 dman, an actual need). Not sure why centers are being included in any leafs deals.

Bozak 14pts, Matthews 12 pts, Nylander 12pts, Kadri 11 pts..I think the leafs are set at C

 

[Lunatik]

didnt say he wasnt a solid two way player. just laughing at the guy who is saying backlund is the best player in this offer.

JVR has 7g/15pts in 16 games this year. Backlund has 1g/7pts in 17 games. JVR is in another tier in terms of offensive ability. If Backlund is the main piece coming back, leafs look else where (for a top 4 dman, an actual need). Not sure why centers are being included in any leafs deals.

Bozak 14pts, Matthews 12 pts, Nylander 12pts, Kadri 11 pts..I think the leafs are set at C

No one is disputing that JVR is a better offensive player, but it is not ridiculous for someone to think Backlund is the better player as the defensive gap between he and JVR is as great or greater than the offensive one. It is simply a matter of preference. Personally I have them pretty close to even for that exact reason.

Also spewing offensive numbers doesn't really mean a ton if you can't prevent the other team from scoring and that starts down the middle.

 

[Kritty]

Of course you would you get the 2 best players

Haha and what would those be? Overpaid 3rd liner Tyler Bozak that Backlund is better and younger than? Depth dman Martin Marincin who wouldn't even crack the Flames lineup and can't crack Toronto'? Outside of JVR there is no value going to Calgary.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Haha and what would those be? Overpaid 3rd liner Tyler Bozak that Backlund is better and younger than? Depth dman Martin Marincin who wouldn't even crack the Flames lineup and can't crack Toronto'? Outside of JVR there is no value going to Calgary.

So we slightly upgrade our 3C position and all it costs us is our big, cheap, top-line winger?
Great....where do I sign?
Marincin can't crack Toronto? Huh.
I wonder who was wearing this jersey.

Also weird that JVR has over twice as many points in less games and a better plus/minus to the superior all-round player named Backlund

 

[Haatley]

So we slightly upgrade our 3C position and all it costs us is our big, cheap, top-line winger?
Great....where do I sign?
Marincin can't crack Toronto? Huh.
I wonder who was wearing this jersey.

Also weird that JVR has over twice as many points in less games and a better plus/minus to the superior all-round player named Backlund

Plus/minus eh? Do you take quality of competition, usage, and zone starts into consideration? If not, plus/minus is a useless statistic. Backlund is a far superior defensive player.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Plus/minus eh? Do you take quality of competition, usage, and zone starts into consideration? If not, plus/minus is a useless statistic. Backlund is a far superior defensive player.

Of course he is. I'm not arguing that. But JVR is a far superior offensive player and he doesn't have bad defensive stats either.
Like it or not, offensive player with average to below average defense >>> defensive player with average to below average offense

 

[Sypher04]

Some of you people are completely ridiculous whenever a Leaf player is involved. In this case, Tyler Bozak.

Michael Backlund is 27 years old. Has been in the league since 2010, with only 2 seasons over 27 points (39 and 47 respectively). His defensive game is nothing to write home about. He averages 45 to 47 percent on faceoffs.

Tyler Bozak is 30, which while older, isn't substantially. His defensive game is also nothing to write home about, however he's become among the league's better centers on the draw. In 1 extra year's time in the league, Bozak has never had less than 27 points in a season (his rookie season) and has 3 seasons on par with Backlunds best points wise (1 of which he missed ~10 games, the other 25). 100 more career points in just 50 extra games played.

Suggesting Bozak isn't at bare minimum on par with Backlund is pure homerism.

 

[Lunatik]

Some of you people are completely ridiculous whenever a Leaf player is involved. In this case, Tyler Bozak.

Michael Backlund is 27 years old. Has been in the league since 2010, with only 2 seasons over 27 points (39 and 47 respectively). His defensive game is nothing to write home about. He averages 45 to 47 percent on faceoffs.

Tyler Bozak is 30, which while older, isn't substantially. His defensive game is also nothing to write home about, however he's become among the league's better centers on the draw. In 1 extra year's time in the league, Bozak has never had less than 27 points in a season (his rookie season) and has 3 seasons on par with Backlunds best points wise (1 of which he missed ~10 games, the other 25). 100 more career points in just 50 extra games played.

Suggesting Bozak isn't at bare minimum on par with Backlund is pure homerism.

Except Backlund is something special defensively, not knowing this is a very clear sign you have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about in regards to Backlund

 

[Brock Radunske]

Some of you people are completely ridiculous whenever a Leaf player is involved. In this case, Tyler Bozak.

Michael Backlund is 27 years old. Has been in the league since 2010, with only 2 seasons over 27 points (39 and 47 respectively). His defensive game is nothing to write home about. He averages 45 to 47 percent on faceoffs.

Tyler Bozak is 30, which while older, isn't substantially. His defensive game is also nothing to write home about, however he's become among the league's better centers on the draw. In 1 extra year's time in the league, Bozak has never had less than 27 points in a season (his rookie season) and has 3 seasons on par with Backlunds best points wise (1 of which he missed ~10 games, the other 25). 100 more career points in just 50 extra games played.

Suggesting Bozak isn't at bare minimum on par with Backlund is pure homerism.

Psssf. Nah.
Backlund is like tots >>>JVR because of reasons. You wouldn't understand because you don't watch him....

 

[Lunatik]

Psssf. Nah.
Backlund is like tots >>>JVR because of reasons. You wouldn't understand because you don't watch him....

maybe you should take time reading the more sensible posts rather than mkaing yourself look childish with garbage like this

 

[Sypher04]

Except Backlund is something special defensively, not knowing this is a very clear sign you have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about in regards to Backlund

lol @ something special defensively. No, he's really not. Perfectly fine player, but let's live in the real world please.

 

[Lunatik]

lol @ something special defensively. No, he's really not. Perfectly fine player, but let's live in the real world please.

thanks for the laugh this morning, much better than the morning comic strips

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

lol @ something special defensively. No, he's really not. Perfectly fine player, but let's live in the real world please.

How abou both fan bases agree to not talk about stuff they don't know?

Backlund is easily one of our best players. So what if he doesn't put up big points? Everyone on this site argues that points aren't everything, and then when a defensive player is brought up they suddenly don't score enough.

 

[garyturner3]

No one is disputing that JVR is a better offensive player, but it is not ridiculous for someone to think Backlund is the better player as the defensive gap between he and JVR is as great or greater than the offensive one. It is simply a matter of preference. Personally I have them pretty close to even for that exact reason.

Also spewing offensive numbers doesn't really mean a ton if you can't prevent the other team from scoring and that starts down the middle.

Ya, it is pretty ridiculous. I have no doubt that Backlund is a better defensive player than JVR, but the gap isn't nearly as large as people on here make it out to be because of JVR's imaginary defensive deficiencies. The offensive gap however is extremely large and measurable. One scores goals at a top line pace every year, the other has hit 40 points/20 goals once in his entire career and is on pace for just 5 goals/33 points this year. Those are 3rd line numbers. That difference in respective offensive abilities is much more valuable than whatever difference in their defensive games exist. High end goal scoring ability is rare in this league so it's always going to be more valuable. There's a poll going on right now where the results echo this so you might want to check it out.

 

[Haatley]

Of course he is. I'm not arguing that. But JVR is a far superior offensive player and he doesn't have bad defensive stats either.
Like it or not, offensive player with average to below average defense >>> defensive player with average to below average offense

JVR's career PPG is less than 0.2 points more than Backlund, while playing in an offensive role with players like Phil Kessel and first unit PP time. I wouldn't brag about how much better he is offensively. When you put things in perspective, it's a lot closer than you think.

 

[93LEAFS]

JVR's career PPG is less than 0.2 points more than Backlund, while playing in an offensive role with players like Phil Kessel and first unit PP time. I wouldn't brag about how much better he is offensively. When you put things in perspective, it's a lot closer than you think.

JVR broke into the NHL a full year earlier than Backlund (which will have an effect on career stats) and .2 is 16 points every NHL season. You talk about .2 like it is a minuscule number, which it isn't.

 

[Phry]

JVR broke into the NHL a full year earlier than Backlund (which will have an effect on career stats) and .2 is 16 points every NHL season. You talk about .2 like it is a minuscule number, which it isn't.

One scores more and has great size. The other is a center relied on for important defensive situations.

Our apple is better than your orange.