Confirmed with Link: TOR re-sign Travis Dermott to 2 year extension, 1.5M AAV

[Tairy Greene]

Not a fan of this player .... Ask yourself .. where would he fit in on any of the final four teams you watched play in this years playoffs.?

He would definitely be on Montreal's 3rd pair

 

[Ciao]

I like Dermott.

Happy with the signing!

Me too.

Maybe I'm just a dumb homer who falls in love with the players I root for all winter year after but I'm glad to see Dermott signed and I hope the Leafs protect him. I would like to see him with the Leafs for a long time, and I think he has a bright future.

This is a Dermott-signing thread -- so the expansion draft and other players are a bit off-topic -- but I think Bogosian has had a good rebound season and has earned a bigger contract the Leafs can't afford, probably in the NY area that is closer to home. I would rather the Leafs not block Liljegren's path with a Bogo-type vet anyway just because I prefer building for the future over marginal short-term gains.

Holl isn't really a top-four defenceman anyway. He's nothing more than a cheap stopgap, and I couldn't care less if he stays or goes. If Seattle doesn't take him I would be just as happy if the Leafs could trade him for picks to replenish their depleted stock.

Reilly, Brodie, Muzzin, Dermott, Sandin and Liljegren would be fine with me. Hutton would be fine to fill the press box and come in to the lineup if and when there are injuries and/or performance issues. That way we could hope for continuing development, and that works for me.

What's the point of bringing young defencemen into the system if you never use and develop them? At some point, the Leafs should push all of Dermott, Sandin and Lilegren into bigger, more important roles. Otherwise, they will never know what they can do.

 

[KuleminFan41]

I'm confused at why the Leafs would pay him this when they showed very little confidence in him during the POs..

All of a sudden now he's worth 1.5M when he wasn't even locked in as one of your top 6 when it mattered and even made one of your teams costliest PO mistakes? Strange.

Either they expect him to get picked up by Seattle, or they save some money by letting Holl get picked up. If the Leafs do keep him, a 2 year deal allow Dermott to prove he deserves to be on the Leafs isn't the worst thing, plus its a movable contract if he doesn't succeed . Perhaps a change of scenery would help him. If Holl goes, you could bring back Bogosian on a cheaper deal for the PK and give Sandin the 2nd line minutes. I think Sandin would benefit greatly playing with Muzzin, I mean, anyone would but his speed would be beneficial

 

[IPS]

Reilly, Brodie, Muzzin, Dermott, Sandin and Liljegren would be fine with me.

I kind of wanna puke at how soft that defense is.

 

[Ciao]

Considering he was worth more than 863K and only signed that to play and stay in Toronto it makes perfect sense.

He was a 1.2M defender last year and got the bump up from signing another year

@phillipmike -- Last year Dermott made a smart move to accept his QO and sign below his market value, to help ease his way into the lineup.

At that time, the Leafs were under severe cap-stress and the Finnish Bobby Orr -- what's his name? [Mikko Lehtonen] -- was the flavour of the month. A difference of a few hundred thousand dollars in salary could be important in deciding who played and who didn't when the Leafs could barely ice a 21-man roster. Leaving some change on the table didn't hurt Dermott in eventually winning the rotating audition between him and the new guy -- Lehtonen -- who was later traded to Columbus.

I'm pretty sure Dermott could easily have held out for more by agreement or by arbitration. Taking a bit less was much better for him, and a bit better for the Leafs.

@I am Canadian -- $1.2 would have been very reasonable last season. $1.5 is very reasonable this season and next.

No he wasn’t. And if he was so generous to give us a discount last year to stay in Toronto, why isn’t he giving us a discount again this year. Logic makes no sense.

He had little leverage last year and got the contract he deserved. I’m not hating on Dubas, I praised him for that contract. He got a good deal.

But he is coming off a worse season with less leverage and he gets more? That’s a worse deal.

 

[Ciao]

I kind of wanna puke at how soft that defense is.

Go ahead.

Sandin is small, but none of them are soft.

 

[IPS]

Go ahead.

Sandin is small, but none of them are soft.

Even if you don't think it's soft - it's undersized and inexperienced and I wouldn't be confident whatsoever we hang in a playoff series if that's the defense we run.

 

[Ciao]

Even if you don't think it's soft - it's undersized and inexperienced and I wouldn't be confident whatsoever we hang in a playoff series if that's the defense we run.

Sandin is undersized and inexperienced, and that showed in the playoffs.

Despite that, the Leafs seem to think he has promise, and they would only find out by playing him -- hopefully on the third pair. It was very unfortunate that they put him on the playoff roster without a full training camp and with no regular-season play to prepare him for that. It did not go well. More experienced management might not have done that, and I hope the Leafs will learn from that, too.

Their choices now are to throw him overboard or to continue with his development -- hopefully in a smarter and more evenly measured way -- and I hope they do the latter.

Liljegren is older, a bit bigger and even less experienced. The same applies to him.
Its time to use him or lose him.

I am so very tired of the Toronto Maple Leafs giving up on their young defenceman too early and not developing that I would rather see them try and fail than not try at all.

 

[phillipmike]

The idea that Dermott was not worth more than his QO last year is ridiculous. You don't think he could have gotten more? He easily could have taken Leafs to arbitration to get probably 1.2-1.4M. He signed the deal betting on himself and making himself fit into this roster.

Ethan Bear signed for 2X2M as a comparable. Bear had a better offensive season for sure. Dermott was worth an extra 300-500K last year and signed the QO to fit on this team

He's not giving the discount again because he wants to make some money here? Believe it or not Leafs have more cap this offseason and is one of the reasons Dermott is making a little more on his deal.

@phillipmike -- Last year Dermott made a smart move to accept his QO and sign below his market value, to help ease his way into the lineup.

At that time, the Leafs were under severe cap-stress and the Finnish Bobby Orr -- what's his name? -- was the flavour of the month. A difference of a few hundred thousand dollars in salary could be important in deciding who played and who didn't when the Leafs could barely ice a 21-man roster. Leaving some change on the table didn't hurt Dermott in eventually winning the rotating audition between him and the new guy who was later traded to Columbus.

I'm pretty sure Dermott could easily have held out for more by agreement or by arbitration. Taking a bit less was much better for him, and a bit better for the Leafs.

@I am Canadian -- $1.2 would have been very reasonable last season. $1.5 is very reasonable this season and next.

You guys honestly believe he gave a discount after the Leafs had 3 defensemen under contract (Rielly, Muzzin and Holl) and just signed 3 more (Brodie, Bogosian and Lehtonen) before they signed him? You really think his agent told him, hey its a good idea for you to take 50% less which means you will pay me less?

Unless you have evidence that Dermott had better offers and took less, this is just speculation. And you are asking me to speculate on speculation if you want me to believe he could have made more last season and he happily took less. Im happy to concede if you have evidence.

 

[Ciao]

You guys honestly believe he gave a discount after the Leafs had 3 defensemen under contract (Rielly, Muzzin and Holl) and just signed 3 more (Brodie, Bogosian and Lehtonen) before they signed him? You really think his agent told him, hey its a good idea for you to take 50% less which means you will pay me less?

Unless you have evidence that Dermott had better offers and took less, this is just speculation. And you are asking me to speculate on speculation if you want me to believe he could have made more last season and he happily took less. Im happy to concede if you have evidence.

Show me your evidence that he couldn't have got more.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We are missing da mean and nasty component to defenders .. Muzzy used to be but no longer is .. always good to have a Pronger type who scares da bleep out of everyone on ice cause he could, at any time, take his stick and wrap it around your ankles and finish someone off for year .. but Sandin Muzzy Brodie Dermy Bogo and Holl are not soft .. Rielly is .. it is why last year before Stl unloaded Edmundson I was guy who said we needed to pick him up but Habs beat us to punch .. our defense is much better but we still need to upgrade with a big nasty guy .. a Bogo upgrade I would hope

 

[rocketman588]

We are missing da mean and nasty component to defenders .. Muzzy used to be but no longer is .. always good to have a Pronger type who scares da bleep out of everyone on ice cause he could, at any time, take his stick and wrap it around your ankles and finish someone off for year .. but Sandin Muzzy Brodie Dermy Bogo and Holl are not soft .. Rielly is .. it is why last year before Stl unloaded Edmundson I was guy who said we needed to pick him up but Habs beat us to punch .. our defense is much better but we still need to upgrade with a big nasty guy .. a Bogo upgrade I would hope

We have 9/12 mil left to sign
1/2 D
3/4 FWs ( including a first line FW and probably a 3L Center)
1 goalie

It's gonna be hard to upgrade the BOGO if we want to do anything with the FWs

I'm hopeful we can even get BOGO I can't see us getting him for less then Dermott...

The money is going to be so tight

 

[Brown Dog]

We are missing da mean and nasty component to defenders .. Muzzy used to be but no longer is .. always good to have a Pronger type who scares da bleep out of everyone on ice cause he could, at any time, take his stick and wrap it around your ankles and finish someone off for year .. but Sandin Muzzy Brodie Dermy Bogo and Holl are not soft .. Rielly is .. it is why last year before Stl unloaded Edmundson I was guy who said we needed to pick him up but Habs beat us to punch .. our defense is much better but we still need to upgrade with a big nasty guy .. a Bogo upgrade I would hope

Yeah, I think a bigger defenceman with a mean streak is an ingredient we could use. I wonder what Edmundson or Chariot would cost...aren't they both potential expansion draft fodder?

 

[phillipmike]

Show me your evidence that he couldn't have got more.

Im not making that argument. You are speculating and Im just laying out the facts and the facts are after a worse season Demortt got more money and double the term last season.

2019-20: 56 GP, 4 Goals, 7 Assists, 11 Points, +14, 17.19 ATOI

Here is $863k and a 1 year commitment

2020-21: 51 GP, 2 Goals, 4 Assists, 6 Points, -1, 13.13 ATOI

Here is $1.5M per and a 2 year commitment

He is coming off a worse season than 2019-20 and got almost double the money and double the term?

 

[Ciao]

Im not making that argument. You are speculating and Im just laying out the facts and the facts are after a worse season Demortt got more money and double the term last season.

You're saying he couldn't have got a better deal last year. I'm saying he could have. Neither of us have access to inside information, and we have a difference if opinion.

You're predicating an opinion that his new deal is too much based on what he got last year, and I think your opinion is wrong.

The readers can form their own opinions on this as well.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yeah, I think a bigger defenceman with a mean streak is an ingredient we could use. I wonder what Edmundson or Chariot would cost...aren't they both potential expansion draft fodder?

Yep Chiarot is gone to seattle .. Kerfoot likely gone from us (if we protect Dermy; otherwise Dermy gone too) to Seattle .. both teams are gonna lose a solid piece

 

[phillipmike]

You're saying he couldn't have got a better deal last year. I'm saying he could have. Neither of us have access to inside information, and we have a difference if opinion.

You're predicating an opinion that his new deal is too much based on what he got last year, and I think your opinion is wrong.

Im just making common sense. If you are Dermott do you take 400-500k less if you believe you can get more after a team signed 6 defensemen before you? Neither of us have insider information but you are speculating that he took less out of the goodness of his heart? It makes no sense.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The idea that Dermott was not worth more than his QO last year is ridiculous. You don't think he could have gotten more? He easily could have taken Leafs to arbitration to get probably 1.2-1.4M. He signed the deal betting on himself and making himself fit into this roster.

Ethan Bear signed for 2X2M as a comparable. Bear had a better offensive season for sure. Dermott was worth an extra 300-500K last year and signed the QO to fit on this team

He's not giving the discount again because he wants to make some money here? Believe it or not Leafs have more cap this offseason and is one of the reasons Dermott is making a little more on his deal.

Dermott had no Arb rights on his last deal, so had no negotiating power.

 

[Menzinger]

Im just making common sense. If you are Dermott do you take 400-500k less if you believe you can get more after a team signed 6 defensemen before you? Neither of us have insider information but you are speculating that he took less out of the goodness of his heart? It makes no sense.

While I doubt kindness had little to do with it, I do suspect he took his last contract in part to ensure he had a lineup spot (ie not picking a fight with management over a few hundred k). Seemed like he just wanted to get it out of the way and focus on the coming season.

 

[Ciao]

Im just making common sense. If you are Dermott do you take 400-500k less if you believe you can get more after a team signed 6 defensemen before you? Neither of us have insider information but you are speculating that he took less out of the goodness of his heart? It makes no sense.

No, I'm speculating that he took less to advance his career. He was in the rare situation where a slightly smaller salary might give him a better opportunity for playing time.

I'm also speculating that others such as Engvall, Liljegren, Lehtonen and Barabanov didn't get as much time on the roster as they might have in a normal year where the Leafs were not so perilously close to cap on an ongoing basis. Once injuries freed up some space, some but not all of those guys finally got more time on the roster.

My theory makes more sense to me than your "common-sense" speculation.

I think, in the big picture, Travis Dermott avoided being penny-wise and pound-foolish.

 

[Ciao]

While I doubt kindness had little to do with it, I do suspect he took his last contract in part to ensure he had a lineup spot (ie not picking a fight with management over a few hundred k). Seemed like he just wanted to get it out of the way and focus on the coming season.

You've hit the nail on the head.

 

[phillipmike]

While I doubt kindness had little to do with it, I do suspect he took his last contract in part to ensure he had a lineup spot (ie not picking a fight with management over a few hundred k). Seemed like he just wanted to get it out of the way and focus on the coming season.

Again speculation.

No, I'm speculating that he took less to advance his career. He was in the rare situation where a slightly smaller salary might give him a better opportunity for playing time.

I'm also speculating that others such as Engvall, Liljegren, Lehtonen and Barabanov didn't get as much time on the roster as they might have in a normal year where the Leafs were not so perilously close to cap on an ongoing basis. Once injuries freed up some space, some but not all of those guys finally got more time on the roster.

My theory makes more sense to me than your "common-sense" speculation.

I think, in the big picture, Travis Dermott avoided being penny-wise and pound-foolish.

If he took that approach last year, why didnt he take that approach this year? The Leafs still are in cap trouble and he still needs to advance his career. So why doesnt it hold true now?

You can speculate one way to suit your argument and speculate the exact opposite way 9 months later? And after a worse season he feels now is the team to maximize dollars? Again, makes no sense.

 

[Ciao]

@phillipmike -- we've convinced each other of nothing and we just disagree. I will leave it at that.

 

[phillipmike]

@phillipmike -- we've convinced each other of nothing and we just disagree. I will leave it at that.

Remember that for next time. Im fine to concede on my position if you have stats, substance or facts but if you are coming with speculation of what you think happened you may not get anywhere with me or anyone else for that matter.

 

[Ciao]

While I doubt kindness had little to do with it, I do suspect he took his last contract in part to ensure he had a lineup spot (ie not picking a fight with management over a few hundred k). Seemed like he just wanted to get it out of the way and focus on the coming season.

Remember that for next time. Im fine to concede on my position if you have stats, substance or facts but if you are coming with speculation of what you think happened you may not get anywhere with me or anyone else for that matter.

I don't think I've convinced anyone of anything -- nor do I care to -- but I think @Menzinger @JT AM da real deal maybe @Kurtz and others hold the same thoughts as me. In fact, I think @Menzinger pointed this train of thought out long ago. Its not new or novel.