Confirmed with Link: [TOR/PIT] RW Kapanen, D Lindgren, LW Aberg for '20 1st(15th), LW Rodrigues, C Hallander, D Warsofsky

[Martin Skoula]

We literally just went into a competitive year by handicapping the team via wimpification and blew our tires out on the freeway @ 180 KM/h

Marleau was the softest forward on the team lol, less intensity than Nylander by a mile.

 

[thewave]

Marleau was the softest forward on the team lol, less intensity than Nylander by a mile.

I know but we could have traded AJ and Kappy around then if we wanted. Probably got better returns as they were both sought after at the time and then hardened the team up. He took the opportunity to sign a bunch of water balloons.

 

[Gallagbi]

I know but we could have traded AJ and Kappy around then if we wanted. Probably got better returns as they were both sought after at the time and then hardened the team up. He took the opportunity to sign a bunch of water balloons.

Hardened them up with the no cap cap space available?

 

[thewave]

Hardened them up with the no cap cap space available?

Did you not read the part about trading AJ and Kappy? They weren't all that great, had great value though and showed promise for sure. If they knew they had to become harder to play, that's what you would do. Even trading Jake Gardiner if need be, but all these things were not done. They kept failing to move players that needed move to play the game, like Tampa administration does. They understand getting better requires an occasional step back. No different than when Nonis lost the entire second KGM line for nothing in a single year.

 

[nsleaf]

No hockey tonight, good on them.

 

[Mess]

Net Sum transaction to trade a 1st and recover a 1st in 2020.

Marleau + 2020 1st @ 13th OA + Kapanen + Lindgren + Aberg
for
2020 1st @ 15th OA + Rodrigues + Hallander + Warsofsky

 

[kb]

Did you not read the part about trading AJ and Kappy? They weren't all that great, had great value though and showed promise for sure. If they knew they had to become harder to play, that's what you would do. Even trading Jake Gardiner if need be, but all these things were not done. They kept failing to move players that needed move to play the game, like Tampa administration does. They understand getting better requires an occasional step back. No different than when Nonis lost the entire second KGM line for nothing in a single year.

Trading Kapanen and Johnsson only makes room to fit in Marleau, and that is only if they get picks/prospects back for both. And both were unsigned RFA's because they hadn't moved Marleau.

Unsigned RFA's don't get good value in a trade unless they are elite.

 

[Gallagbi]

Did you not read the part about trading AJ and Kappy? They weren't all that great, had great value though and showed promise for sure. If they knew they had to become harder to play, that's what you would do. Even trading Jake Gardiner if need be, but all these things were not done. They kept failing to move players that needed move to play the game, like Tampa administration does. They understand getting better requires an occasional step back. No different than when Nonis lost the entire second KGM line for nothing in a single year.

You were talking about Marleau and keeping him, so it read as if you dump AJ/Kap to afford him.

 

[kb]

Net Sum transaction to trade a 1st and recover a 1st in 2020.

Marleau + 2020 1st @ 13th OA + Kapanen + Lindgren + Aberg
for
2020 1st @ 15th OA + Rodrigues + Hallander + Warsofsky

Not so bad now.

 

[Duckrider]

Did you not read the part about trading AJ and Kappy? They weren't all that great, had great value though and showed promise for sure. If they knew they had to become harder to play, that's what you would do. Even trading Jake Gardiner if need be, but all these things were not done. They kept failing to move players that needed move to play the game, like Tampa administration does. They understand getting better requires an occasional step back. No different than when Nonis lost the entire second KGM line for nothing in a single year.

Problem is for all we no they did try. I mean KD is a professional GM. You'd think anyone would try and get the best player that was AVAILABLE at the time. Saying they should have gotten this player or that isn't an argument.

 

[thewave]

You were talking about Marleau and keeping him, so it read as if you dump AJ/Kap to afford him.

AJ and Kap also had value. You would use the returns to address you needs as well, no? It's a dynamic situation, a jigsaw puzzle every single season really. Core and sub core players, the man is very much like Nonis in how he is reactionary in his GM actions. He isn't proactive or a chess player, that's for sure.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Damn, I want this kid.

Doubt he falls to 15. I would like him or Askarov.

 

[thewave]

Not so bad now.

Do you know who the 3 names are that we are getting back? I know Kappy and I know 13 OA is better than 15 OA. I know you can slice and dice it up and it's not as bad sounding now as it once was. I personally think PIT did us a favor for the two cups Kessel brought them, it was worth it for them. I don't think they would do this deal otherwise tbh, even with their cap savings for junk.

 

[Gallagbi]

AJ and Kap also had value. You would use the returns to address you needs as well, no? It's a dynamic situation, a jigsaw puzzle every single season really. Core and sub core players, the man is very much like Nonis in how he is reactionary in his GM actions. He isn't proactive or a chess player, that's for sure.

Not without cap space. The returns would be futures because we had no space to add players if you're keeping Marleau. You mentioned signings and I can't remember us signing anyone above $1M.

Thinking of our additions last year, we swapped Ceci for Z (no cap change for the year). Barrie/Kerfoot came in just above Kadri's cap hit because Colorado retained, so no wiggle room there. Then you've swapped AJ/Kerfoot for Marleau and were likely worse on cap given you just lost a roster player.

 

[orbiter11]

Just curious, if the Leafs kept Marleau, let AJ walk, not make the Kadri trade, how would the Leafs have been any better this year or in the future? Especially considering they wouldn't have the cap space to sign Marner . . .

(FWIW, I don't think any team has ever let a 24 yo who put up 40+ points in his first season walk, but happy to be corrected.)

At least your thinking about other options last year before contracts were given out. Trade Kapanen or Johnson keep Marleau and bridge Marner. Everyone here thinks there was no other option then what Dubas did which is false. Hainsey would have taken a cheaper contract to stay here im sure, and im not completly sold on having to move Zaitsev. Im tired of this Dubas had no choice in what he did....

 

[Martin Skoula]

At least your thinking about other options last year before contracts were given out. Trade Kapanen or Johnson keep Marleau and bridge Marner. Everyone here thinks there was no other option then what Dubas did which is false. Hainsey would have taken a cheaper contract to stay here im sure, and im not completly sold on having to move Zaitsev. Im tired of this Dubas had no choice in what he did....

It's not that he had no choice, he had a lot of bad choices and seems like he took the least bad one based on the information we had at the time.

If he dumped Kapanen and Johnsson for cheap to keep Marleau, this board would have melted down if they went on to put up 50+ point seasons while Marleau regressed even further to the ghost that we saw in Pittsburgh.

We're already against the cap, how on earth could we have kept Zaitsev on top of that?

There's no scenario where we keep our first and don't weaken our roster significantly after Marleau decided he needs to be bought out.

I'm still waiting to see a suggested roster with Marleau on it that doesn't rely on hypotheticals like Marner somehow agreeing to a 2x7 deal.

 

[orbiter11]

Not without cap space. The returns would be futures because we had no space to add players if you're keeping Marleau. You mentioned signings and I can't remember us signing anyone above $1M.

Thinking of our additions last year, we swapped Ceci for Z (no cap change for the year). Barrie/Kerfoot came in just above Kadri's cap hit because Colorado retained, so no wiggle room there. Then you've swapped AJ/Kerfoot for Marleau and were likely worse on cap given you just lost a roster player.

Once again your talking about after these moves were made and contracts were signed. It didn't have to go down the way Dubas did it. Bridging Marner, letting Ceci walk. Re signing Hainsey (2.5 im sure) moving one of Johnson or Kapanen. Packaging Kadri with a prospect or roster player. There were tons of different ways last year could have gone.

 

[thewave]

Once again your talking about after these moves were made and contracts were signed. It didn't have to go down the way Dubas did it. Bridging Marner, letting Ceci walk. Re signing Hainsey (2.5 im sure) moving one of Johnson or Kapanen. Packaging Kadri with a prospect or roster player. There were tons of different ways last year could have gone.

That's what I was trying to get at. We weren't locked into the corner at the time. We absolutely had options and players to move to get out of the situation we were in. The end result of what he did really speaks for itself though, it was not a good outcome for anyone.

 

[orbiter11]

It's not that he had no choice, he had a lot of bad choices and seems like he took the least bad one based on the information we had at the time.

If he dumped Kapanen and Johnsson for cheap to keep Marleau, this board would have melted down if they went on to put up 50+ point seasons while Marleau regressed even further to the ghost that we saw in Pittsburgh.

We're already against the cap, how on earth could we have kept Zaitsev on top of that?

There's no scenario where we keep our first and don't weaken our roster significantly after Marleau decided he needs to be bought out.

I'm still waiting to see a suggested roster with Marleau on it that doesn't rely on hypotheticals like Marner somehow agreeing to a 2x7 deal.

Its pretty simple bridge Marner and move Johnson that gets you your money right there. Once again Matthews on a five year contract should be making a mill a year less at least. There were other ways and ive been consistent about this from the beginning.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

This is the first time I've ever read a suggestion that Lindgren would be a real possibility for the Leafs' roster in any capacity.

Really? A few posters have said they thought he was a dark horse in a couple years

 

[orbiter11]

That's what I was trying to get at. We weren't locked into the corner at the time. We absolutely had options and players to move to get out of the situation we were in. The end result of what he did really speaks for itself though, it was not a good outcome for anyone.

And the fact that the result on the ice was worse then the previous years just adds to the fun. Not to just rag on Dubas but I said in the other post im not blindly saying this kapanen move is good. It would probably have been more prudent to move Nylander for a bit better package and keep Kappy(Matthews can score 40 goals with any combination of wingers). Someone on the Penguins bored was wondering if Murray,15th overall and Hallander might start the converstion on Nylander. If Andys asking for 7.5 to 8 mill and Murray would take something in th 5 range it might have been a thought.

 

[Wiseguys]

Net Sum transaction to trade a 1st and recover a 1st in 2020.

Marleau + 2020 1st @ 13th OA + Kapanen + Lindgren + Aberg
for
2020 1st @ 15th OA + Rodrigues + Hallander + Warsofsky

Also the most important thing is cap savings, about 9.5 mil in total, from Marleau and Kapanen's contracts which helped with the flexibility to acquire UFA'S and signing RFA'S

 

[Gabriel426]

I know but we could have traded AJ and Kappy around then if we wanted. Probably got better returns as they were both sought after at the time and then hardened the team up. He took the opportunity to sign a bunch of water balloons.

I know in hindsight we didn’t make the playoffs this year and AJ was injured but we were coming off I think a 100ts season where AJ and Kap played much better than Marleau.
Assuming both AJ and Kap were traded for picks. This would have been the fwd lines before Hyman coming off IR.
Marleau-AM-Willie
Soup-JT-Marner
Moore-Kerfoot-Spezza
Goat-Shore-Petan/Tima/Engvall/Brooks

Thats not even close to being a solid lineup

 

[Merrrlin]

And the fact that the result on the ice was worse then the previous years just adds to the fun. Not to just rag on Dubas but I said in the other post im not blindly saying this kapanen move is good. It would probably have been more prudent to move Nylander for a bit better package and keep Kappy(Matthews can score 40 goals with any combination of wingers). Someone on the Penguins bored was wondering if Murray,15th overall and Hallander might start the converstion on Nylander. If Andys asking for 7.5 to 8 mill and Murray would take something in th 5 range it might have been a thought.

Im glad you didn’t rag on Dubas because you followed it up with some Chiarelli level GMing.

 

[Gallagbi]

Once again your talking about after these moves were made and contracts were signed. It didn't have to go down the way Dubas did it. Bridging Marner, letting Ceci walk. Re signing Hainsey (2.5 im sure) moving one of Johnson or Kapanen. Packaging Kadri with a prospect or roster player. There were tons of different ways last year could have gone.

Ceci couldn't walk, he was already qualified by Ott. Bridging Marner saves some, but not enough. Rumblings around then we're ~9/yr for a bridge so you're saving under $2M

I don't see how Kadri + a prospect opens up more cap space. If anything Barrie was too cheap for our needs.

There were options on this roster, but I haven't read anything that keeps Marleau and makes us better. Cap was just too tight for it. We could have conceded a step back and used this year to flush out some issues, but that would have been an odd move at the time.