Confirmed with Link: [TOR/PIT] RW Kapanen, D Lindgren, LW Aberg for '20 1st(15th), LW Rodrigues, C Hallander, D Warsofsky

[kb]

Well, the 2006 Carolina cup was a complete anomaly and the 2016 and 2017 Penguins were built by Ray Shero with some minor tinkering here and there.

That doesn't fit the narrative though. lol

 

[rimshot]

I'd argue that by the time Schenn got traded, the damage to his development had already been done. Even so, he's only 30 years old and has played 750 NHL games. Not a terrible career, all things considered.

He also had the disadvantage of coming in at the tail end of the "bulk up so you can punish forwards like Scott Stevens" era. Changes in the rules that moved us away from the clutch and grab, the left wing lock type defensive struggle snooze fests into a more free wheeling type of hockey claimed more victims than Schenn. It's nobody's fault and generally a positive development, but the timing of these changes hurt some prospects more than others.

 

[ACC1224]

or Bracco is not rated as highly by NHL GM's as he is in the Leaf's fanbase?

Leaf fans don’t rate him very high at all.

 

[ACC1224]

That doesn't fit the narrative though. lol

Been away for a bit. What’s today’s narrative ?

 

[AvroArrow]

Been away for a bit. What’s today’s narrative ?

That the 15th overall pick is trash, look at how many fails there are at 15

 

[KuleminFan41]

Luke Schenn has almost 800 NHL games.

If you can get that with the #15 pick, you take it everytime.

I understand the upside question, but that's still fantastic value.

Luke Schenn has 759 games out of a possible 1110 games with 7 different teams and hasn't played a full season since 2012 with the Leafs. He's kinda stumbled his way to 800 games, but its not because hes particularly that good

 

[ACC1224]

That the 15th overall pick is trash, look at how many fails there are at 15

What does that have to do with past cup winners?

 

[kb]

Been away for a bit. What’s today’s narrative ?

Another poster touched on it. Basically a total fail of a deal strictly because of who made it.....so it had to be analytics, and analytics are all crap.

So essentially Hallander sucks, #15 is trash, and he took 2 smurfs, plus who cares about the cap space it opened up...it's meaningless. Apparently the Leafs gave up a 13 goal all-star 3rd liner for that meager return.

 

[showtime8]

Another poster touched on it. Basically a total fail of a deal strictly because of who made it.....so it had to be analytics, and analytics are all crap.

So essentially Hallander sucks, #15 is trash, and he took 2 smurfs, plus who cares about the cap space it opened up...it's meaningless. Apparently the Leafs gave up a 13 goal all-star 3rd liner for that meager return.

It's funny that nobody on here is talking about the Leafs trading for Warsofsky. He's only listed at 5'9 on eliteprospects.com . Talk about adding another short player. Why is Dubas so focused on these players.

 

[thewave]

Another poster touched on it. Basically a total fail of a deal strictly because of who made it.....so it had to be analytics, and analytics are all crap.

So essentially Hallander sucks, #15 is trash, and he took 2 smurfs, plus who cares about the cap space it opened up...it's meaningless. Apparently the Leafs gave up a 13 goal all-star 3rd liner for that meager return.

Kyle trades paper well. On Paper (EA Sports) it looks to be a good trade, and it is not at all bad. It's what's to come with that which is the potential issue. The Marleau 1st is a fantastic example which had no need to be done because AJ should have been dumped anyways and you ride out the Marleau deal. Now we have this 1st, AJ should be moved and then what will we get for him? I am not even going to bring up the Kadri deal and how awful that was but again. Will he get more useless Barrie types for his deal?

It seems to me Kyle Dubas is only doing good when he is drafting and getting picks with the occasional good player trade like Muzzin,.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It's funny that nobody on here is talking about the Leafs trading for Warsofsky. He's only listed at 5'9 on eliteprospects.com . Talk about adding another short player. Why is Dubas so focused on these players.

$700,000 that Pitt does not have to payout next year ... no CAP affects but saves Pitt hard payroll

 

[Ciao]

Agreed with all of this. Wish we had traded Duszak instead of Lindgren. We could use a guy like Lindgren on the3rd pair in a few years. Solid defensively, patient with the puck and a good skater.

This is the first time I've ever read a suggestion that Lindgren would be a real possibility for the Leafs' roster in any capacity.

 

[Ciao]

. . . I am not even going to bring up the Kadri deal and how awful that was . . .

Actually, I think you just brought it up.

 

[thewave]

Actually, I think you just brought it up.

True.

If Kyle drafts well ( and he seems to do pretty good in this department ) we should be ok. If he uses it to grab some random slick D or buy cap space, not so okay.

 

[duck]

Kyle trades paper well. On Paper (EA Sports) it looks to be a good trade, and it is not at all bad. It's what's to come with that which is the potential issue. The Marleau 1st is a fantastic example which had no need to be done because AJ should have been dumped anyways and you ride out the Marleau deal. Now we have this 1st, AJ should be moved and then what will we get for him? I am not even going to bring up the Kadri deal and how awful that was but again. Will he get more useless Barrie types for his deal?

It seems to me Kyle Dubas is only doing good when he is drafting and getting picks with the occasional good player trade like Muzzin,.

Just curious, if the Leafs kept Marleau, let AJ walk, not make the Kadri trade, how would the Leafs have been any better this year or in the future? Especially considering they wouldn't have the cap space to sign Marner . . .

(FWIW, I don't think any team has ever let a 24 yo who put up 40+ points in his first season walk, but happy to be corrected.)

 

[Ciao]

True.

If Kyle drafts well ( and he seems to do pretty good in this department ) we should be ok. If he uses it to grab some random slick D or buy cap space, not so okay.

I agree, but the draft and the trade are not related.

A poor draft pick doesn't change a good trade into a bad trade, and vice versa.

If the Leafs keep the #15 overall pick, I just hope they use it well.

 

[thewave]

Just curious, if the Leafs kept Marleau, let AJ walk, not make the Kadri trade, how would the Leafs have been any better this year or in the future? Especially considering they wouldn't have the cap space to sign Marner . . .

(FWIW, I don't think any team has ever let a 24 yo who put up 40+ points in his first season walk, but happy to be corrected.)

Sorry, the correct answer was always to trade him while you had him. I even said so that year in different threads to my recollection. They should have been better prepared for all that and not done the Marner deal at all. We don't get a do-over unfortunately.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Luke Schenn has 759 games out of a possible 1110 games with 7 different teams and hasn't played a full season since 2012 with the Leafs. He's kinda stumbled his way to 800 games, but its not because hes particularly that good

How many other 15th overall picks have stumbled there way to almost 800 games?

 

[Ciao]

I am pretty sure they made it a 3yr deal because Lou fully expected him to retire after the first 2. Why he didn't just pay him for a 2yr deal and not leave it up to the player for the 3rd year is the big mistake. We had the cap room back then...they should have paid his signing bonus on the 1st of july...not spread it over that day and later in the season. They could have paid him off and then shipped him out like Datsyuk. Lou trusted Patty and we got burned. If he wanted a character player ...Justin William's would have been the guy I wanted.

I don't know what they were thinking, but it wasn't retirement. As @ACC1224 just pointed out, the Leafs would have been stuck with that over-35 contract retirement or not.

Thankfully, it's all behind us now and we don't have to continue to try to figure that one out.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

With the way Dubas gets bashed by the Leafs haters and they claim he sucks at making trades because they bring up him giving up a 1st round pick to get rid of Patrick Marleau, it's great to be on the other end where Dubas is the one taking advantage of a GM from another team.

OK, but I don't why anybody listens to those folks. Why get sucked in to sewer?

 

[Ciao]

I thought Dubas did pretty well with this deal.

No matter if the 15th is kept or traded, and if it turns out to be another Mike Bossy or a complete dud (whose name we wouldn't recognize anyway because he's a dud), it still turns a surplus piece into a useful asset.

The other pieces are almost irrelevant. If one or more of them is somehow useful, that's great. If not, no loss.

 

[Ciao]

I wish Toronto Maple Leafs managers would have perfect foresight to know exactly how future events would unfold.

If they had that ability, it would not help the Leafs because they would be much too busy managing our stock portfolios.

 

[duck]

Sorry, the correct answer was always to trade him while you had him. I even said so that year in different threads to my recollection. They should have been better prepared for all that and not done the Marner deal at all. We don't get a do-over unfortunately.

I think that's part of the problem - there really isn't a better solution out there. The team was fundamentally handicapped by a few bad deals (which were made by LL to fix errors made by Nonis, which Nonis made to fix errors made by Fletcher and so on) and the market necessitated higher salaries for players across the board. I'm sure when the next GM comes along, he/she will be fixing some of Dubas' mistakes while making some of his/her own mistakes that the next GM will have to fix too -- it's just a part of being a GM.

I don't really care who our GM is, but for the first time in a while, the Leafs at least have a consistent vision of what the team should look like, so I'd like to see it play out . . . because pivoting just means pressing the reset button and being a bottom feeder for many more years to come.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Sorry, the correct answer was always to trade him while you had him. I even said so that year in different threads to my recollection. They should have been better prepared for all that and not done the Marner deal at all. We don't get a do-over unfortunately.

Of course, we should have gone into a competitive year with Marleau as our 2nd line LW and only Nylander and Kapanen on the RW.

 

[thewave]

Of course, we should have gone into a competitive year with Marleau as our 2nd line LW and only Nylander and Kapanen on the RW.

We literally just went into a competitive year by handicapping the team via wimpification and blew our tires out on the freeway @ 180 KM/h