Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Ianturnedbull]

What's so sacrilege about comparing GMs? We constantly hear about the Leafs being in "cap hell", but it's not true - spending lots of money, and spending lots of money badly are 2 different things.

While I don't like the Murray contract, and I worry about the way the John Tavares deal will age, the Leafs aren't facing big cap issues - I look at teams like San Jose, who spend lots of money very badly on lots of aging players for lots of term, as a team in cap hell. Not the Leafs.

Dubas also had plenty of other options:

1. Extend Campbell at ~5x5
2. Go after Kuemper at ~6x5
3. Go the trade route for an unproven netminder: Husso, Nedelkovic, etc
4. Go the trade route for an overhyped goaltender: Gibson
5. Go the free agent route for an unproven goaltender: Samsonov, Comrie.
6. Bet on experience with Matt Murray.

While I'm not a fan of this deal, I'm also struggling with alternatives to what I would have done differently - I'm just not convinced there's tons of options out there that represent clear upgrades over what the Leafs had.

I see your point.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I like a lot of what Dubas has done but if this flops badly he'll be gone and it will be justified.

 

[stealth1]

A main reason to do the trade before free agency is it gives the front office cost certainty - they now know exactly how much they have to work with the

That tells me they don't plan on getting a goalie in free agency. Unless they offload some players they don't have much left to fill the bottom 6.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Varlomnov for a 2nd or equivalent prospect.

Lou’s stated that they think it’s best to roll with a 1-2 punch of Varly-Sorokin so I doubt Varly would be dealt.

 

[Superstar]

I hope our window doesn’t end this way:
View attachment 567621

To quote Babcock: There will be pane...

 

[mikeyz]

Lets be fair here this move is really indefensible and highly questionable on not just on timing but full of risks and pitfalls, at a very low return to assume it.

Why rush to make a trade when you're heading into free agency tomorrow, with lots of other goalie options available, when this is not a deal too good to not jump at the opportunity to grab while its hot.

Leafs essentially turned Mrazek into Murray for slightly more cap ($3.8 mil to $4.68 mil) consumption and both goalies only dressed for 20 games last year, with long injury history in their past years.

Leafs even dealt away their 1st round pick in 2022 draft to create this cap space to attempt this, and even have less available cap space today then previously to fill out the rest for their roster.

The fact Murray has only appeared in 38, 27 and 20 games that past 3 seasons and been on LTIR 7 times the past 2 years and coming off a 4 month hiatus due to a serious concussion, and still hasn't even resumed skating yet, still sitting on LTIR, should be a clear RED flag most GMs wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole.

Toss in that Murray has a back-loaded contract that pays him $7 mil this year and $8 mil next year ( with Ottawa kind enough to pick a $1.5 mil tab) per year, which makes him undesirable with $12 mil guaranteed owed after retention on his current deal to most teams, which made even a Murrray buyout a poor financial decision at 2/3 cost (a $10 mil buyout cost to save $5 mil) , and Ottawa desperate to unload that contract.

To think a 3rd and 7th round pick is all it took to unload (with $3 mil total retained) that financial commitment is almost unbelievable all things considered. Buffalo was going to get Ottawa's #7 overall for a move up swap of 1st round picks with Ottawa willing to retain up to 50% on that deal nixed by Murray on NTC.

Well said.

 

[AvroArrow]

Dude looks like he's trying to pull his life together so that he can get back to work this week after a three week bender.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Murray on joining the Leafs: 'I think I have a lot to prove' - Video - TSN.ca

Goaltender Matt Murray spoke to the media for the first time since joining the Toronto Maple Leafs, and he touted the quality of the support staff as a big reason he wanted to join the club. As well, Murray spoke about growing up a Leafs fan and how he left the Senators with "no hard feelings."

 

[hotpaws]

Lou’s stated that they think it’s best to roll with a 1-2 punch of Varly-Sorokin so I doubt Varly would be dealt.

Yup , that’s what Lou said and he’d be stupid to say otherwise but I’m sure if the right offer presented itself , Varly would be on the first boat off the island .

No idea what it would take to get him but I wouldn’t be surprised if gets traded and Lou signs a cheap b/u and uses the rest of the cap to upgrade his forwards .

 

[keonsbitterness]

Should have found away to get more retention a third and sevenths wort from another team.

Only possible with a 3rd team involved. Ottawa definitely wasn΄t doing 50%.

I am really surprised that he couldn't get a second or a first instead with such little retention. Couldn't even get a 7th for the upcoming draft lol

I'm not. Ottawa isn't out of lottery territory They would have been insane to give up a '23 1st. Even the Leafs have yet to put their 1st in play.

 

[ToneDog]

Would Matt Murray @ $4.69M pass through waivers?

LOL, Only if we fire Dumbass and he is hired by another NHL team. I don't believe an OHL team would be able to claim him.

 

[Apotheosis]

Only possible with a 3rd team involved. Ottawa definitely wasn΄t doing 50%.

I'm not. Ottawa isn't out of lottery territory They would have been insane to give up a '23 1st. Even the Leafs have yet to put their 1st in play.

I am. I went over to there board to ask if they would be content with still being in the Bedard lottery and it was pretty unanimous that with the acquisition of Debrincat and the continued development of Stutzle with their new top 6, they are most likely closer to a bubble/wild card team than they are the lottery.

 

[kb]

LOL, Only if we fire Dumbass and he is hired by another NHL team. I don't believe an OHL team would be able to claim him.

Ottawa waived him for his cap hit.....that's all.

They want to save every nickel, and even putting Murray in the minors helped with that.

 

[hotpaws]

What happens when Husso is a healthy scratch .900 goalie making $4.75 for 3 seasons?

It's just as likely as your scenario, in fact even more so as Husso has no history.

They’ll just dump him with a 3rd like Ottawa just did with Murray .

 

[Ziggdiezan]

That's one way to look at it. The other way is that he reportedly got injured and then played 2 more games he shouldn't have before he was shut down (giving up 13 goals in the process), and his sv % up until then was .940ish in those 12 games from Jan 1st.

I believe that health is the only issue here. And as much as I hate the structure of this deal because the Leafs let Ottawa off the hook somewhat, at the end of the day the Leafs got a goalie with upside plus 2 draft picks for absolutely no cost other than $4.7 m on the cap.

It was more the games played that was a concern, I.e he can't seem to stay healthy and carries a high cap hit for multiple years.

 

[Subway Schenn]

Sickened every time I come on here and see this thread title. Sheesh, going to stay away until tomorrow when hopefully we will do something that makes me forget about this (even if temporarily).

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

They should have addressed the goalie situation 4 yrs ago, but they didn’t and they’ve scrambling ever since.

The Tom Wilson OT goal was the first red flag, the first Boston series was enough to begin the process.

I think the league as a whole needs to be addressing the goalie situation.

Why are there so few decent goalies?

I think the GM's are thinking the way HFboards posters think, oh I'll just go out and grab a developed goalie on the cheap, but suddenly we're about to see some seriously laughable long term high cap hit signings for truly mediocre goaltenders.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I wonder if the leafs could have just sent the picks to a third team to retain another 25%. Would rather have Murray @ 50% for nothing than Murray @25% for 3rd+7th

 

[egd27]

3. Go the trade route for an unproven netminder: Husso, Nedelkovic, etc
4. Go the trade route for an overhyped goaltender: Gibson
5. Go the free agent route for an unproven goaltender: Samsonov, Comrie.
6. Bet on experience with Matt Murray.

So you are going to describe the 11 time injured, once waived goalie as "experienced" ? I suppose that's one way to look at it.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

4. Start the year with Kallgren & Woll and keep your powder dry until the right situation comes. The team would stay competitive in the regular season.

I like this. If Matt Murray doesn't work out then let's see what we've got. If they can't rise to the NHL level then well, we should hope that the Maple Leafs take goalie development a little more seriously going forward.

 

[mikeo1]

So you are going to describe the 11 time injured, once waived goalie as "experienced" ? I suppose that's one way to look at it.

You can be injury prone and experienced at the same time.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think the league as a whole needs to be addressing the goalie situation.

Why are there so few decent goalies?

I think the GM's are thinking the way HFboards posters think, oh I'll just go out and grab a developed goalie on the cheap, but suddenly we're about to see some seriously laughable long term high cap hit signings for truly mediocre goaltenders.

My guess, partially it‘s because in the places that produce hockey players the parents cant afford to take the chance on their kid making it as a goalie. It’s very costly and there are not as many positions

 

[Superstar]

There is a silver lining here and that is Leafs draft pick future took a turn in the right direction.

The Leafs had traded Nick Ritchie away with their 3rd in 2023, and they gave away their 7th next year to acquire Jared McCann before losing him in expansion,

This Murray trade essentially recovers those 2 previously lost draft picks allowing Leafs to break-even on those transactions as if they never occurred, with a 3rd and 7th returning to the fold as part of the salary retention on this deal. .

Didn't Dubas also traded Hallander for McCann?

 

[Zybalto]

Just on your comment about the Canes trying to win longer then us,

Canes made the playoffs in 2019. They haven't been trying to win longer than us

They entered a rebuild in 2015 until 2018 similar to us, except we made the playoffs twice in that span.

They've had deeper runs and more siccsess from 2019 onwards (when we signed JT)

The thought they'd rebuilt from 2010 - 2014 but failed to make the playoffs like the Leafs from 2010 to 2014 as well.

I'd argue they were ready to win before that but their goaltending was so atrocious (ahem, Darling for example) that it prevented a very good team from doing much of anything.

From 2014 to the end of the 2018 season, Carolina had the worst team save% in the league...and borderline top 5 defensive numbers.

It's kinda crazy really.

 

[kb]

It was more the games played that was a concern, I.e he can't seem to stay healthy and carries a high cap hit for multiple years.

Those very same words could be used to describe Campbell and Kuemper. Both have missed multiple game stretches multiple times in their careers (even last season), and that concern would only be magnified going forward on contracts with the terms they will be receiving (rumored to be 5 years minimum).

The Leafs meanwhile, get a goalie who was .915 going into his final start of the season, a 3rd, and a 7th for $4.69 million in cap space for only 2 season.

People seem to have this bizarre impression that this will be the only goalie acquisition. Having mentioned that both current 'backup' goalies are both waiver exempt, this would seem to suggest that another move for a G is coming.


And don't get me wrong, I do not like this deal at all - because it let Ottawa off the hook. But realistically the overwhelmingly negative response is mostly rooted in disappointment based on the reported return for Buffalo - which we don't really know the full scope of the reported deal.

But at the end of the day, it's like finding a $5 bill on the ground and complaining that it's not a $20.