Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Mess]

There has been mixed reports about that deal to Buffalo. I thought Ottawa was intending to retain 50% of his contract in that deal, but thehockeyguy and SDPN both spoke of it being only 25%. If it was in fact only 25% Ottawa was willing to retain for Buffalo, I'd think Ottawa would have been willing to move back to 25 if there was no retention. Would you be okay will Murray and his full 6.25M if 7th overall was included?

7th overall is a valuable asset.

So what I think you mean since retention was never made clear on the Buffalo deal;

1) Matt Murray + 50% retention(=$3 mil AAV) + 7th overall for #16 overall
or
2) Matt Murray + 25% retention (=$1.5 mil AAV) + 7th overall for #25 overall

Or as the Leafs got Matt Murray +25 % retention (a $1.5 mil AAV value) for 3rd and 7th rounder, and also dealt Mrazek a player having only $3.8 mil cap X 2 with Leafs 1st rounder #25 to draft Fraser Minton.

Even after Murray's retention its still more $4.687 mil than Mzazek @ $3.8 mil had, and it only cost Ottawa a 3rd and 7th to dump him.

If your asking me would I take Murray + $1.5 mil extra cap hit and pick #7 overall or Murray -$1.5 mil less cap for a 3rd round and 7th rounder instead (to save that little cap) I take the first on every day of the week and twice on Sundays. For $1.5 mil cap savings for 2 years the difference between #7OA pick vs. 3rd rounder and 7th rounder in value is the size of the Grand Canyon in different returns. IMO

 

[Leviathan899]

to me seems a bit of nepotism. but given how dubas and then keefe and then Elkin got the job with leafs....

One of the most reputable goalie schools - Jon Elkin Goalie School

Jon Elkin started coaching goalies at 16. His hockey goalie school has grown into one of the largest and most reputable in the world.

elkingoaltending.com

View attachment 567678

Also, Victor Carneiro is the Ontario scout for the leafs, long time OHL scout and Soo greyhound scout while Dubas was GM there. Same with Wes Clark whose a long term friend of Dubas in Ontario.

 

[Dave92]

I'm curious how the owners are ok with paying Murray 15 million for the next two seasons. At some point you'd think they would just tell the GM to f*** off with deals like these.

 

[rimshot]

Why couldn't we let them keep the picks or give a pick back in exchange for retaining more

My guess is that Ottawa valued the money savings more than the picks.

 

[Leviathan899]

If the Leafs are going to keep Dubas, Shanahan needs to be firm and put his foot down -- no more players linked to the Soo.

This nepotism is killing the organization.

Take away his toys!

Imagine they got Barrett Hayton from Arizona haha although he is one young player I’ve been intrigued about, he’s got upside and could be pried away imo

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I would have much rather taken a shot at goalies near league minimum (Stolarz type of profile) instead of run with close to $5M committed to Murray and then upgrade the forward group usiing the cap space instead (Gaudreau/Malkin big fish).

 

[Neutrinos]

Here's how trade talks went down...

Dorian: We're looking to move Murray with 25% retention, and we think a 3rd and 7th round pick is fair

Dubas: Sounds good! Fax over the paperwork, we have ourselves a deal!

--- 10 Minutes Later ---

*Dubas reads over the paperwork*

"Holy shit, guys! We're the ones getting the picks!"

 

[firstemperor]

Not convinced Murray can even stay healthy. He failed the end of the season physical with Ottawa

Same problem you'd have with Soup; except you'd end up paying more AAV and more term. Once Fleury went off the market, we were pretty screwed unless the trade route was an option, unless we wanted to gamble on Georgiev- which I was cool with.

At his best, Murray is actually a very good goalie. I'm willing to give it a chance. Goalies are unpredictable, Binnington looked terrible one day then looks great in the playoffs; vice versa with Husso.

 

[binop7]

Same problem you'd have with Soup; except you'd end up paying more AAV and more term. Once Fleury went off the market, we were pretty screwed unless the trade route was an option, unless we wanted to gamble on Georgiev- which I was cool with.

At his best, Murray is actually a very good goalie. I'm willing to give it a chance. Goalies are unpredictable, Binnington looked terrible one day then looks great in the playoffs; vice versa with Husso.

It's arguably fine to take a gamble on Murray but this cap hit is way too high for the goalie he has been for the last 3 years. Also limits the ability to get a decent backup with upside. I am guessing Dubas will go back to the bargain bin for the 1B.

 

[rimshot]

I think there’s a plan but subpar execution .. which could mean that maybe it wasn’t that good of a plan

The plan has always been to rake through the left over goalies in the draft as long as they were still available in the 4th to 7th round.

 

[Leviathan899]

I still can’t realu

It only makes sense if this is part one of a two trade deal with the Sens.
If a second deal comes that is tipped to the Leafs benefit, like Kerfoot for Connor Brown with 50% retention, which would save Ottawa $1,250,000 in real money and Toronto $1,500,000 against the cap, then it may make sense.

I still don’t really understand why Dubas has ever been loved here in Toronto, I’m not saying he’s a terrible GM, but I don’t think he’s a good one either. He inherited Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, trades away Kadri who everyone loves in Toronto it seems, overpaid for Tavares although I admit at the time I was pumped for it. His drafting has been average at best in my eyes, some pretty decent prospects but no guaranteed studs. His Mrazek trade is patching a hole that he created, sure it’s limited damage and I’ll take it, but let’s not sit here and say it’s some amazing trade. We’re going to lose Mikheyev, Spezza, have already lost Kase, and I don’t really think there’s anyone knocking on the door in the system to replace them. He needs a backup goalie and a few good depth forwards working with around 6 and change. Maybe someone like Danton Heinen to replace Mikheyev at around 1.5-2, bring back Blackwell, try and get someone like Lawson Crouse or Denis Guryanov. Robertson should be given a good look on the third or second early, if he can’t crack it then I’d move him in a deal for a D or try and pry Hellebuyck at the deadline of Winnipeg is struggling. I agree with others that one of Blackwood, Stolarz, Comrie or Samsonov would be decent as a backup if the price is right. Don’t want to see Murray-Kallgren/Woll

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I didn't see this, but I saw a goalie problem a mile away, and not just for the Leafs.

And I don't care.

It's summer. It's beautiful outside. Matt Murray is the next coming of Dominik Hasek for the Leafs, but let's watch that happen later.

I prefer this 2 year potential disaster, to (wait for it) whatever Jack Campbell gets in cap and term......wait for it.

And I mean wait for it, like, don't even think about this hockey team until the pre-season comes around and thank me later.

 

[AllDay28]

I still can’t realu

I still don’t really understand why Dubas has ever been loved here in Toronto, I’m not saying he’s a terrible GM, but I don’t think he’s a good one either. He inherited Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, trades away Kadri who everyone loves in Toronto it seems, overpaid for Tavares although I admit at the time I was pumped for it. His drafting has been average at best in my eyes, some pretty decent prospects but no guaranteed studs. His Mrazek trade is patching a hole that he created, sure it’s limited damage and I’ll take it, but let’s not sit here and say it’s some amazing trade. We’re going to lose Mikheyev, Spezza, have already lost Kase, and I don’t really think there’s anyone knocking on the door in the system to replace them. He needs a backup goalie and a few good depth forwards working with around 6 and change. Maybe someone like Danton Heinen to replace Mikheyev at around 1.5-2, bring back Blackwell, try and get someone like Lawson Crouse or Denis Guryanov. Robertson should be given a good look on the third or second early, if he can’t crack it then I’d move him in a deal for a D or try and pry Hellebuyck at the deadline of Winnipeg is struggling. I agree with others that one of Blackwood, Stolarz, Comrie or Samsonov would be decent as a backup if the price is right. Don’t want to see Murray-Kallgren/Woll

why should we care about anything you say past this when youre allowed to use revisionist history to complain about Dubas? :s .. lol this fan base in a nutshell.

 

[Leviathan899]

why should we care about anything you say past this when youre allowed to use revisionist history to complain about Dubas? :s .. lol this fan base in a nutshell.

What are you talking about? I even said I was a fan of the signing, but even at the time I winced at the money. I still like Tavares, he’s a good player. I don’t even hate Dubas, but he hasn’t done a great job here in Toronto. He hasn’t brought in a top flight player since Tavares.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I still can’t realu

I still don’t really understand why Dubas has ever been loved here in Toronto, I’m not saying he’s a terrible GM, but I don’t think he’s a good one either. He inherited Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, trades away Kadri who everyone loves in Toronto it seems, overpaid for Tavares although I admit at the time I was pumped for it. His drafting has been average at best in my eyes, some pretty decent prospects but no guaranteed studs. His Mrazek trade is patching a hole that he created, sure it’s limited damage and I’ll take it, but let’s not sit here and say it’s some amazing trade. We’re going to lose Mikheyev, Spezza, have already lost Kase, and I don’t really think there’s anyone knocking on the door in the system to replace them. He needs a backup goalie and a few good depth forwards working with around 6 and change. Maybe someone like Danton Heinen to replace Mikheyev at around 1.5-2, bring back Blackwell, try and get someone like Lawson Crouse or Denis Guryanov. Robertson should be given a good look on the third or second early, if he can’t crack it then I’d move him in a deal for a D or try and pry Hellebuyck at the deadline of Winnipeg is struggling. I agree with others that one of Blackwood, Stolarz, Comrie or Samsonov would be decent as a backup if the price is right. Don’t want to see Murray-Kallgren/Woll

I don't understand these hindsight posts.

Dubas came in pre-pandemic expecting that $90m team cap space Bob MacKenzie was going on about.

The guy doesn't have a crystal ball.

I'm also not sure why I'm defending the guy. I guess maybe I liked the idea of giving a younger guy a shot vs watching the same regurgitated execs over and over?

But I'm at the point I'll just sit back and watch, because throwing out opinions as fans on a forum has zero effect on what we see next, we are not involved and they don't care what we think.

 

[Seras]

Single season point records is all they have. Problem is your bar is set so low you defend mediocrity like it is greatness.

1 team wins the cup every year and 31 lose, so you're saying those other 31 teams should just give up?

Something along the lines of.

"Yeah! but he put a team together that put up 116 point season." "Nevermind another 1st round season, he did all that, 116 point season doesnt get you fired" Lips meet ass

Losing in the 2nd round is somehow better?

I think I'm scared of the answer, it might be yes.

 

[DylanSensFan]

That’s totally the wrong way to look at…he could have been had for way less and the risk is high. It’s not impossible that he turns back the clock and wins the leafs a cup but it still doesn’t make it a good bet

It’s like in poker going all in or raising with a bad hand. You might get lucky on the river card and it all works out but it doesn’t make it a good bet. Odds are against you

There are only two seasons left on Murray's current contract. So you're getting a Stanley Cup pedigree goalie at $4.5-million, which is honestly a fairly low price. As mentioned. He could have chosen to be traded anywhere else but Toronto. Yet he chose Toronto. Why would Murray choose the burning spotlight of Toronto if he thought he didn't have something to prove? I wouldn't discount his determination.

 

[Divine]

Even though this fanbase hates it, this is a calculated risk and a significantly lower risk than Campbell.

If both Campbell and Murray play well, the Leafs win.
If both Campbell and Murray suck, the Leafs win.

The only situation the Leafs look bad is if Campbell plays great and Murray sucks. Murray has proven he can win and be depended on. Campbell is 0-5 in elimination games in which the Leafs were the better team and has allowed 3 OT goals in elimination games on 7 shots. I'd rather have a goalie who's calm because he's done it before.

We also got paid to take Murray for less money and term than Campbell.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Even though this fanbase hates it, this is a calculated risk and a significantly lower risk than Campbell.

If both Campbell and Murray play well, the Leafs win.
If both Campbell and Murray suck, the Leafs win.

The only situation the Leafs look bad is if Campbell plays great and Murray sucks. Murray has proven he can win and be depended on. Campbell is 0-5 in elimination games in which the Leafs were the better team and has allowed 3 OT goals in elimination games on 7 shots. I'd rather have a goalie who's calm because he's done it before.

We also got paid to take Murray for less money and term than Campbell.

Some hate it because they just don't like Murray.

I just think the main disappointment is the lack of return and retention more than Murray himself. With the way the market is shaking out, Murray was one of the more attractive options. It would be nice if we had enough cap to also get Samsonov too, but that may not be possible now.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Okay now that some time has passed, here are my rational thoughts.
It's still a bad deal and you can't get around that. The sweetner to take on 75% of the contract isn't enough. My main issue with this really is making Ottawa retain only 25% and that really hinders our ability to improve the other areas. Thats my concern. You have 6 million to get another goalie and get a new 4th line. If Holl is moved which is a given, and Kerfoot unlikely IMO than it gives you room. However the problem with moving Kerfoot is you than need to find a replacement for him. Complain all you want about him, but the guy is a good top 9 player who can do a bit of everything.

You could move Muzzin and I have been against that, but could you find someone for less who can as good as him? It's possible but tough. I don't think they will and I get it. As much as Rielly is the heartbeat of the defence, Muzzin is the engine, and I think they value him as they should.

I'm actually confident Murray will perform well here assuming health which is risky with him. The issue is again do we have enough room to improve the holes? I will wait to fully judge until the full picture is clear, but just looking at the deal alone, Dubas messed up and even a big fan of his can say that.

Very well put. This is the same reason why I hate this deal..

 

[Tlo1]

There are only two seasons left on Murray's current contract. So you're getting a Stanley Cup pedigree goalie at $4.5-million, which is honestly a fairly low price. As mentioned. He could have chosen to be traded anywhere else but Toronto. Yet he chose Toronto. Why would Murray choose the burning spotlight of Toronto if he thought he didn't have something to prove? I wouldn't discount his determination.

I think the term is key. Only 2 years. If he stays healthy and returns to form it’s a great deal. If he gets injured put him on Ltir. It’s a good gamble.

 

[Garbo Man]

Even though this fanbase hates it, this is a calculated risk and a significantly lower risk than Campbell.

If both Campbell and Murray play well, the Leafs win.
If both Campbell and Murray suck, the Leafs win.

The only situation the Leafs look bad is if Campbell plays great and Murray sucks. Murray has proven he can win and be depended on. Campbell is 0-5 in elimination games in which the Leafs were the better team and has allowed 3 OT goals in elimination games on 7 shots. I'd rather have a goalie who's calm because he's done it before.

We also got paid to take Murray for less money and term than Campbell.

So is the entire Leafs core? The Leafs collapsed against the Canadiens. Your superstars no showed but i guess that's Campbell's fault somehow? I mean granted he wasn't the best in the Lightning Series but Vasi wasn't really all that great until game 7 either. Maybe your team should play better defensively? Holl literally put the puck into his own net on the Point OT Goal in Game 6. Campbell played well in Game 7 but the Leafs stars pretty much no showed and were out scored by Nick Paul...

 

[Sniper99]

During the draft I said this next 7 days is the most important of Dubas career

He has f***ed it up tremendously. Hats off to him. We're going nowhere

Usually he waits till free agent frenzy to f*** it up. Hes starting early this year.

 

[Sniper99]

This is the move you make when you are about to TANK NATION.

Is there a Makar type dman in next years draft? Please?

 

[Divine]

So is the entire Leafs core? The Leafs collapsed against the Canadiens. Your superstars no showed but i guess that's Campbell's fault somehow? I mean granted he wasn't the best in the Lightning Series but Vasi wasn't really all that great until game 7 either. Maybe your team should play better defensively? Holl literally put the puck into his own net on the Point OT Goal in Game 6. Campbell played well in Game 7 but the Leafs stars pretty much no showed and were out scored by Nick Paul...

Yes, and the Leafs are moving away from the goalie that allowed 3 OT goals on 7 shots in elimination games. Not a bad move. Holl did not put it in his own net, Campbell lost the rebound and kicked it up to Point and opened his legs for a reason I have not figured out yet. It was still better than the softy he allowed against Kotkaniemi though in Game 6 OT on the second shot of the OT with a chance to advance when the Leafs were outshooting Montreal 13-1 at that point... but that's on the D too right?

Wait, so if Campbell struggles it's all on the D right? But if Murray struggles... he's a bad goalie? How did you come to that conclusion? Campbell was the worst goalie in the NHL from December to May, the season started in October.

We both agree Campbell isn't good enough. Even if Murray isn't good enough, he'll be cheaper and on a shorter contract than Campbell, so easier to move AND they got assets to take him.