Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[WillyC]

I think Murray facing Matthews and Marner in practice everyday will bring him back to an elite level… same as it turned Jack from a backup to the starter.

 

[deprw]

Didn't really want to wake up on this. Can't wrap my head around of it. Like WTF.

I can understand that we don't want to commit on Campbell and I think Murray might be better bet than Mrazek.

But how in the f***in world we don't get more for taking his contract. Ottawa wanted to dump him and we won't get more than a 3rd and a 7th. 25% retention only, if this would have been 50%, maybe it's debatable. At least it would have been more understandable.

If we win a cup with Murray as our goaltender. No one cares about this. If we don't or Murray is injured or playing like shit, which is way more likely than winning the cup. No one can defend this.

Goalie market is crazy at the moment, but it seems like we chickened out and Dorion out played us from the position of weakness.

With 50% retention we would have had more cap space for free agency, but now we are also cap strapped. So beyond frustrating.

 

[deprw]

Matt Murray costs more money with retention than Marc-Andre Fleury.

He never was available to us, but this is so annoying, because I think MAF is a risk too but with that price it's risk to take. We pay Murray essentially starting goaltender money.

 

[jiggy35]

I’ve generally trusted Dubas and even some of his worst moves giving the benefit of the doubt or understanding the tough circumstance, but given the very real need for a very good goaltender, this simply make no sense.

A complete and wild gamble on a player - unacceptable.

Only 25% retention - unacceptable.

Only a 3rd round pick (and a 7th, why even f***ing bother) - unacceptable.

The timing - unacceptable. Why not first try and go for a cheaper tandem duo, then turn back to the Murray option later.

Helping a young division rival that is only getting better - unacceptable. To me this is the worst part, I hate to say it but Sens can be a threat this year if they pick up Giroux and another defence man.

Should have been 50% + a 1st at minimum or simply do not do the deal. Dubas is WEAK.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Dumpster diving for a goaltender is a proven strategy to win a Cup right?

Right…

 

[deprw]

I wonder if the Leafs numbers department thinks we just landed the 18th best goalie in the game. If not, I don't think they're Moneyballing properly.

We paid pretty hefty price so you'd think they thought we might get top10 goaltender in the trade. Or at least that is only acceptable outcome of this that we get top10 goaltending and other teams with Husso, Kuemper, Campbell, Mrazek etc. don't.

It's just so long shot that it's impossible to defend at this point. If this is genius move we will see it after the next season. Until that this seems so stupid and even if this genius move I think we could have fetched more assets out of it.

Even if we believe in Murray for 4.6 million it is 4.6 million out of Ottawa cap, so it should have been priced correctly. Now it isn't. They were the ones that wanted to get rid of him.

 

[deprw]

So we now have Murray instead of Mrazek, but gained something pickwise (gave up 25th overall pick in return for 38th pick plus a 3rd and a 7th).

Neither goalie is a sure thing but it seems clear that Murray's ceiling is way higher than Mrazek's and we got some picks to boot. Paying a bit more for Murray but not much more so no big deal there. It also seems reasonable to give our staff credit for having done their due diligence when it comes to Murray's health so all things considered, at the very least we're in better shape than we were going into the draft.

Pretty funny to see how so many people are losing their minds over this one.

Cheers everyone.

Glad to see you as voice of reason. I agree on Murray having way more upside than Mrazek and I can also defend this against signing Campbell or Kuemper long term. There is way more risk doing that and I'd say mediocre upside. Kuemper or Campbell aren't good enough to warrant +5 million cap hit with 4-6 six years attached to it. In overall our long term cap situation is still good and way better than with recently signed Campbell for 5 years.

Problem with Murray is that he is injury prone and if his out we need reliable backup. We have almost 5 million tied to him, so we don't have too much room for good backup.

Problem with this trade was that Toronto was Dorion's only option, so we should have milk it even more or needed bigger retention for this price. 33% or 40% would have made difference, when we think about building new 4th line.

This trade is so hard to get, but I'll root for the Leafs forever and hope for the best. That is only thing to do at this point. Will watch free agency and then go sidelines until training camp starts. Can't defend Dubas on this one, because this is hard to rationalize, but we'll see. I hope I get fooled by this and get to eat the crow.

Murray definitely has the upside and good thing about this move is that if it's bombs it's only two years. But we're on win now mode and really has to make it count next season. Window is wide open and I don't think this is good enough move for this off season.

I'll root for Murray and hope he proves me wrong.

 

[Erndog]

I've been a Dubas and co. supporter since the start and while not every move they've made has worked out, I could at least see the logic or rationale behind it.

But this is an absolute disaster. Indefensible. This has literally tipped the scales for me and I no longer have faith in management.

This has sewered our next season and potentially the one after that. And we all know what comes up in 2 yrs.

I've slept on this deal now and still think it's an unmitigated disaster. F this.

 

[Kiekura]

I've been a Dubas and co. supporter since the start and while not every move they've made has worked out, I could at least see the logic or rationale behind it.

But this is an absolute disaster. Indefensible. This has literally tipped the scales for me and I no longer have faith in management.

This has sewered our next season and potentially the one after that. And we all know what comes up in 2 yrs.

I've slept on this deal now and still think it's an unmitigated disaster. F this.

Bye bye Auston Matthews.

Hope for a miracle that Murray can find himself again and actually be great starter.

 

[gordonshumway]

Honestly, I don't know how *anyone* can be defending this deal. It's weak on so many levels:
- Murray is a shadow of his former self (concussions and injuries will do that), all this talk of members of Leaf mgmt being familiar with him means nothing - he's not the guy they used to know
- apparently only Toronto pays 1st rounders to get out from a bad contract
- how on earth Sens managed to get Leafs to cover 75% of the deal for a measly 3rd (let's face it, 7th is pretty much worthless) is beyond me, even the Kassian dump few days ago netted more (and Kassian's deal is 3.2m per)
- if you're gonna pay this 'glass tiger' around 4.7m to sit on IR for half a season, might as well keep Campbell for the (rumored) 5m per, no?!?

I know Dubas fanboys will still try to defend this (they always do), but this trade is just garbage. If anyone here thinks we have a chance in the playoffs with MM backed by Kalgren.... oh boy. Gotta hope Dubas doesn't get a crazy idea of trading our 2023 1st when this blows in his face because it could turn out to be a lottery pick - anything's possible.

 

[Mattavarner]

Man ive had faith in Dubas on pretty much every move hes made since he started.
My first reaction to us being in on Murray was oh god, well maybe if hes double retained Murray as a 1B at 2M ish would work, there must be more to it.
Seeing the final trade, how we didnt even get 50% retention so we are pretty much locked in with Murray as the starter and maybe another cheap backup UFA, thats brutal. More bummed at this trade then I was losing to Tampa this year.
Really hoping for the best and that Murray can return to form, but thats a very big risk and the first time ive genuinly gone "wtf is dubas doing"

 

[Macallan18]

Should be an interesting season. I expect Murray to return to middling form and put up numbers slightly better than .900. If he is injured, look for Robidas Island and the leafs trading for a replacement goalie.
I hope we pick up Samsonov in free agency.

 

[Warden of the North]

I've been a Dubas and co. supporter since the start and while not every move they've made has worked out, I could at least see the logic or rationale behind it.

But this is an absolute disaster. Indefensible. This has literally tipped the scales for me and I no longer have faith in management.

This has sewered our next season and potentially the one after that. And we all know what comes up in 2 yrs.

I've slept on this deal now and still think it's an unmitigated disaster. F this.

I'm on this boat too.

I've been able to rationalize most of his moves.

This one is bad. Really bad.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

We don’t need to tear down. We need to restructure our salary cap allocation to bring better balance.

if we fail again in the 1st round this year going into next year with Murray I dont give a shit what they do, either way I wont like seeing them go but if nothing ever changes then I dont care, I enjoyed the rebuilding years more than whatever this is now

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Hubris

He lowballed and dicked around Campbell because ofcourse he did. hubris!

Other teams moved quickly to grab goalies and the market saturated. Campbell basically told dubas to go where teh sun don't shine after getting crapped on by dubas

So here we are....

Dubas has screwed the Leafs and the bright future right from the RFA signings overpayments, draft picks traded for nothing, and now this. As far as I am concerned dubas is a saboteur to the leafs. Period!

for all we know they could have held out and gotten that with whoever else we went with over Dubas. but kinda had enough of Dubas now. ready for a change
if the market dried up why not actually move assets to get something more reliable. what we have now is a joke.
not looking forward to seeing the flood gates open day after day

 

[ER89]

You make it sound like everyone takes that course? Maybe you, but believe it or not, most haven't taken that course....obviously.

Which is why they shouldn't talk if they don't understand incremental accounting.

 

[Nylander88]

Being a fan is cheering for your team and riding the highs and lows of the emotional rollercoaster and still being invested even when the team performance doesn’t deserve it. Being a sheep and being unrelenting optimism no matter what the team does shows that those fans aren’t knowledgeable about the league. Must be a good move if my team did it.……learn how to formulate your own opinions.

I'd go hockey knowledge with you any day of the week lol far from a sheep cuz I want to pull for Matt Murray there. I've seen what he's capable of. Absolutely I think we should have gotten more than a 3rd and a 7th. I think 50% should have been retained, or a nicer pick involved. That said, we have a guy who is EASILY comparable to Jack Campbell. Better resume. More playoff success, longer resume as a starter, and 2 years younger. Both have shown inconsistencies, both have had injury issues. Apples to apples, Matt Murray is the better goalie when both are playing at the top of their games. So if Murray was a free agent the same as Campbell, would you rather 5+ mil x 5+ years (Campbell's projected next deal), or 2yrs x 4.6mil for Murray? I'm taking the better goalie, with the longer track record, and two Stanley Cup rings, that's also younger...for the cheaper price and less term. It's that simple. The market isn't swimming with proven starters that are sub 30 years of age that will require low term, and less than 5mil. Campbell and Kuemper are the bells of the ball. And we got Murray not only for basically just money the same way as a free agent, but we got a 3rd and 7th round pick too, just because. I know a bad deal. I 100% have been sideways about some things Dubas has done. Far from a sheep. Take a step back and look at this for what it is, and it's a solid option that has a huge swing for the fences upside....and like anything in life, of course it might not pan out.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Awful trade given they didn't retain 50%. He basically traded down to get rid of an injury prone player and then acquired a 3rd and 7th for a more expensive injury prone goalie. They can't count on any more than 40 games for this guy, so they'll have to go spend 2.5-4m on another goalie, meaning kerfoot/holl have to go and be replaced with minimum salaries players. Awful asset management, acquired an awful player and made the team up front worse. What's his explanation? "Well he's from the soo... He's one of my boys". If he thinks he's getting 1-2m goalie that he can count on, good luck Kyle. Not going to happen. The state of this guys asset management.

 

[Ciao]

I don't know that the Leafs were the only team interested in Murray.

Edmonton might have been there too. How would we know?

 

[Christ]

I think Murray facing Matthews and Marner in practice everyday will bring him back to an elite level… same as it turned Jack from a backup to the starter.

Or it will destroy his confidence entirely...

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't know that the Leafs were the only team interested in Murray.

Edmonton might have been there too. How would we know?

Edmonton has already tampered and basically agreed to 5x5 for Campbell or something like that.

 

[Dayjobdave]

I'd go hockey knowledge with you any day of the week lol far from a sheep cuz I want to pull for Matt Murray there. I've seen what he's capable of. Absolutely I think we should have gotten more than a 3rd and a 7th. I think 50% should have been retained, or a nicer pick involved. That said, we have a guy who is EASILY comparable to Jack Campbell. Better resume. More playoff success, longer resume as a starter, and 2 years younger. Both have shown inconsistencies, both have had injury issues. Apples to apples, Matt Murray is the better goalie when both are playing at the top of their games. So if Murray was a free agent the same as Campbell, would you rather 5+ mil x 5+ years (Campbell's projected next deal), or 2yrs x 4.6mil for Murray? I'm taking the better goalie, with the longer track record, and two Stanley Cup rings, that's also younger...for the cheaper price and less term. It's that simple. The market isn't swimming with proven starters that are sub 30 years of age that will require low term, and less than 5mil. Campbell and Kuemper are the bells of the ball. And we got Murray not only for basically just money the same way as a free agent, but we got a 3rd and 7th round pick too, just because. I know a bad deal. I 100% have been sideways about some things Dubas has done. Far from a sheep. Take a step back and look at this for what it is, and it's a solid option that has a huge swing for the fences upside....and like anything in life, of course it might not pan out.

I agree. I think the Leafs recognized that this was their best option this off season. when Murray is on he’s really good. Of course he could have played chicken with Dorion and Murray may have been bought out,

 

[TML Dynasty]

Ok I’m tentatively excited about the possibility of Murray regaining his form but seriously worried about injuries. Need a solid backup

Trade was bad regardless based on the return.

So we obviously need some cap space now.

Kerfoot - gotta be as good as gone
Muzzin? - frees up a lot of cap but softens our d considerably

Can’t see any other areas to reasonably create cap

 

[Lemontree]

I'd go hockey knowledge with you any day of the week lol far from a sheep cuz I want to pull for Matt Murray there. I've seen what he's capable of. Absolutely I think we should have gotten more than a 3rd and a 7th. I think 50% should have been retained, or a nicer pick involved. That said, we have a guy who is EASILY comparable to Jack Campbell. Better resume. More playoff success, longer resume as a starter, and 2 years younger. Both have shown inconsistencies, both have had injury issues. Apples to apples, Matt Murray is the better goalie when both are playing at the top of their games. So if Murray was a free agent the same as Campbell, would you rather 5+ mil x 5+ years (Campbell's projected next deal), or 2yrs x 4.6mil for Murray? I'm taking the better goalie, with the longer track record, and two Stanley Cup rings, that's also younger...for the cheaper price and less term. It's that simple. The market isn't swimming with proven starters that are sub 30 years of age that will require low term, and less than 5mil. Campbell and Kuemper are the bells of the ball. And we got Murray not only for basically just money the same way as a free agent, but we got a 3rd and 7th round pick too, just because. I know a bad deal. I 100% have been sideways about some things Dubas has done. Far from a sheep. Take a step back and look at this for what it is, and it's a solid option that has a huge swing for the fences upside....and like anything in life, of course it might not pan out.

I have seen your posts about players like Simmonds, Blackwell, Kerfoot. I don’t need to debate you on your hockey knowledge……have a nice day.

 

[Racer88]

Are we pretending Campbell did well? He had a sub .900 sv%

I don’t think anyone is pretending Campbell did well but the idea of making a change is to get a better goalie but this guy has been a train wreck for the last 2 years.