Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Zybalto]

LOL. What on earth are you on about?

Gibson, Husso, M.A. Fleury, Hellebuyk, Georgiev, Varmalov......all better options that we could have gone after. Or hell, even Campbell.

Or, as I already said, how about........have some kind of long-term plan? Maybe draft & develop some legit Goalies with high picks, instead of trading them all away every year?

Glad you mentioned Husso (who I wanted to go after) and Varlamov (who I wanted at the deadline). At least you are willing to put the names forward.

Gibson has been regressing a bit after seeing more leather than anyone else in the league for 5 years and would be way too expensive. I think he would be worth a shot though but its a gamble. Fleury is getting old, regressing and had a brutal playoffs, Last year was the time to go for him and it wasnt a great move for who actually got him. Hellebuyck would cost a ton to acquire but I would love to get him, I prefer Samsonov to Georgiev as a backup, especially at 1.8x1 vs 3.4x3 and Lou aint letting Varlamov go as he needs his top 3 goaltending from last year (and #1 over the last 3 seasons) to hold up after he fired his excellent coach due to the trainwreck he created. I think he would have been perfect for last years run though.

There was no way in hell we would be giving Campbell a 5 year contract in a flat cap world when he sputtered out as a starter in a full season. He wanted that term and we shouldnt have matched.

Out of the names you mentioned,

Husso
Helle
Gibson
Varlamov
Murray
Samsonov
Georgiev
Campbell
Fleury

That would be my order of wants for this season. Not giving anything up (and even receiving assets), low term and only paying around 6.5 for both goalies was certainly part of the process.

The Leafs are a great team and if Murray wants another huge payday or Samsonov wants to get paid himself, they can take advantage of the situation. They both have the tools. Lets see what they can do.

 

[rocketman588]

Fun fact: Only 5 goaltenders in the NHL next season will have had a positive GSAx in each of the previous 3 years.

None were available.

How many were available that were above matt Murray's -32 In the past 3 years?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Meh.

You're okay with the Leafs losing every year. I'm not.

Have fun with that.

I am not ok with the Leafs losing in any year.

 

[Leaf Fans]

So you’re saying they don’t come with huge question marks?

??

I think I saw Nail Yakapov at one…….lol

He might have been shopping as he still plays professionally in Omsk in the KHL.

 

[rocketman588]

Adding on top of the first and the way the trade went down on the Amazon series was a bit embarrassing - classic Dubie - but I tend to agree with you and dont give him a hard time for that trade.

Given the circumstances you laid out it was the right time to throw down a first and Foligo was one of the most desirable pieces on the market (injuries unknown).

Foligno also just whooped us the year before so it was a good feeling to bring some of that spark to our side.

I mean we probably could have done our due diligence on his health a bit better though

 

[Gary Nylund]

Medias suck, lol.

I don’t think the Foligno is a bad trade at that moment bc of that season. We were beating the divisions down and unlike other years, we actually played every teams in the division more than 8 times from start to finish. Thus, regular season records actually matters( since we played them all year, while in some years-teams might had played their playoffs opponents before X’mas, and there should not be any surprises from the other teams.). It was a good gamble to go in.
Foglino being injured even before getting here is something that Dubas should had done better. But in terms of the direction that year and the intention to go get pieces for the long playoff run, that was the right decision.

Unless they do some damages in the playoffs, I would not consider them a contender despite being one of the most talented team in the league.


I thought he was selling timeshare condos, lol.

Or was that Alexander Daige

I hated the Foligno trade but I do understand the argument in favour of it so that's JMHO.

Depends on your definition of contender I guess. I myself think the bookies have it right - we're one of the most likely teams to win the cup this season. COL is the favourite but other than them, I don't think anyone's chances are significantly better than ours.

It's wild so many have convinced themselves that our goalies position is better this year.

Just shows how little they know about hockey. But this isn't new to anyone who has been paying attention since 2018.

You and Mess are broken records. Find some new material already, will ya?

 

[Menzinger]

LOL. What on earth are you on about?

Gibson, Husso, M.A. Fleury, Hellebuyk, Georgiev, Varmalov......all better options that we could have gone after. Or hell, even Campbell.

Or, as I already said, how about........have some kind of long-term plan? Maybe draft & develop some legit Goalies with high picks, instead of trading them all away every year?

Though many of these were not actually options. Plenty of teams were on the goalie market for goalies and non touched Gibson - so either asking price was absurd or the Ducks weren't actually selling. Flurey wanted to stay and play for Guerin ect.

And then while fair enough if you prefer them but guys like Husso/Georgiev are complete question marks with no real track record.

Imo the majority of offseason goalie moves for most teams will remain a giant question mark until at least the first quarter of the season until we can at least say they look like a win/loss of move.

Personally I really liked the Samsonov acquisition from a longer term move pov (though will still have to wait and see him play some games first)

 

[Metroid]

Do you think anyone is still reading your regurgitated novels? "Dubas bad, Murray bad" would communicate the same amount of information, work smarter not harder you know?

I honestly don't read anything they write lol I just scroll past it. I'll ready everything from everyone else tho. Bad or good

 

[LeafEgo]

I mean we probably could have done our due diligence on his health a bit better though

Yeah you could be right, I don't really know how that works or what happened there.

 

[rocketman588]

Yeah you could be right, I don't really know how that works or what happened there.

In his defense it seems like a bunch of teams didn't do the same but it was a gamble that didn't work out. Happens sometimes, the issue is that we seem to gamble too much

 

[kb]

LOL....Husso with his 4 full years in the AHL as a middling goalie with 50 something career NHL games is a "sure thing", yet Murray with his 2 Cup rings behind a middling D is "throwing shit at the wall hoping it will stick".

Anyone who says Husso is a sure thing needs to retire from hfboards permanently. That is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read on here. Show me the evidence where Husso is guaranteed to be a sure thing, especially with those playoff numbers LOLOL

Andrew Hammond says hi.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah you could be right, I don't really know how that works or what happened there.

What happened was he was fine and then got injured while with us.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

LOL....Husso with his 4 full years in the AHL as a middling goalie with 50 something career NHL games is a "sure thing", yet Murray with his 2 Cup rings behind a middling D is "throwing shit at the wall hoping it will stick".

Anyone who says Husso is a sure thing needs to retire from hfboards permanently. That is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read on here. Show me the evidence where Husso is guaranteed to be a sure thing, especially with those playoff numbers LOLOL

Andrew Hammond says hi.

Sorry kb, but going after Husso doesn't make me LOL as much as saying we should have gone after Campbell and sign him for 5 x 5 and saying it's less of a gamble than going after Murray and signing Samsonov

 

[Stephen]

Though many of these were not actually options. Plenty of teams were on the goalie market for goalies and non touched Gibson - so either asking price was absurd or the Ducks weren't actually selling. Flurey wanted to stay and play for Guerin ect.

And then while fair enough if you prefer them but guys like Husso/Georgiev are complete question marks with no real track record.

Imo the majority of offseason goalie moves for most teams will remain a giant question mark until at least the first quarter of the season until we can at least say they look like a win/loss of move.

Personally I really liked the Samsonov acquisition from a longer term move pov (though will still have to wait and see him play some games first)

I think the wait and see approach is the only reasonable one that can be taken at this point. I'm on record as saying I hated the Murray acquisition in terms of who we staked the franchise to in net and the suboptimal retention we got. Clearly there were other options with their own risks as well.

But I am willing to give the player a clean slate and a fair shake to see how it pans out, and there was special insight in what led to Toronto making this bet. Just don't see why anyone would take the position of being a staunch Murray supporter without having seen where his game is at. No need to stick your neck out that far.

Similarly, I liked the Samsonov bet and think there's tremendous upside there, though the one year run time could set up for some issues, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

There is no doubt we were desperate this summer. We had a limited budget, needed a #1, and the goalie market this summer sucked, there were few good options.

Murray might still work out - certainly, he was very good up to and including the 2018/19 season, and goalies are weird/unpredictable, he might bounce back. But he’s had 3 straight poor seasons, that’s pretty scary. Ottawa were happy to retain salary AND throw in a 3rd rounder to get rid of him, clearly they saw him as having significant negative value. He’s a massive gamble that we were basically forced to take due to a lack of options in our (very limited) price range.

If I had to guess about how this move will work out, I’d guess closer to Mrazek/Ritchie/Foligno than Brodie/Bunting/Muzzin. But, who knows, we’ll see soon enough - I certainly hope Murray regains his old form and is great for us.

Ottawa traded a 3rd and retention to get out of that contract. Dubas will trade a 1st to do the same probably next offseason.

 

[Stephen]

Which probably means he has not. Most people in media are really bad, whether it is because they lack basic hockey knowledge or they just tailor their opinions to generate the largest reaction/most clicks.

His most ill-advised trade, and the only one he should regret, was the Foligno trade. Never should have happened in the first place, aged even worse, and should never make a deal like that again. Got caught up in the Covid hype. Based on the Giordano trade, and what he has said before, I don't think he is making that trade again.

The rest have been solid value, even if some ended up working out better for the other team than it did for us. But there are signings or trades where you immediately know that the trade or signing will almost certainly not work out (Foligno trade, Marleau signing, etc.), and we are not seeing that with Dubas.

The main thing he is missing is that one home run for a core player, specifically in net. Campbell was solid, but I think took us as far as he could and it simply was not enough. With Murray and Samsonov, he is swinging for the fences. Maybe that takes us over the hump, or maybe it is a strikeout. Either way, at least we are not in a bad spot for him, or his successor, to move forward.

Evaluating Dubas' track record can be controversial work but really depends on what your expectations of him are.

If you think he's the Theo Epstein of hockey, or the Auston Matthews of GM's, well, I don't think he's met those expectations. If you think he's just a young inexperienced GM learning on the job and will get better over time, he is what he is.

 

[Stephen]

Fun fact: Only 5 goaltenders in the NHL next season will have had a positive GSAx in each of the previous 3 years.

None were available.

In 2020, when Markstrom, Holtby (bad choice), Murray (ironically) were available, I suggested Toronto may wish to trade Andersen before the final year and commit to a new goalie they had trust in, but it would be a bold move that would require immediate action.

It's not so much that Dubas' options are limited to what was available this summer on the UFA and trade market that we can see, but there's also a long term planning component that this team is also capable of pursuing. I'm not the GM but the chess board isn't limited to the moves we see.

 

[Racer88]

Medias suck, lol.

I don’t think the Foligno is a bad trade at that moment bc of that season. We were beating the divisions down and unlike other years, we actually played every teams in the division more than 8 times from start to finish. Thus, regular season records actually matters( since we played them all year, while in some years-teams might had played their playoffs opponents before X’mas, and there should not be any surprises from the other teams.). It was a good gamble to go in.
Foglino being injured even before getting here is something that Dubas should had done better. But in terms of the direction that year and the intention to go get pieces for the long playoff run, that was the right decision.

Unless they do some damages in the playoffs, I would not consider them a contender despite being one of the most talented team in the league.


I thought he was selling timeshare condos, lol.

Or was that Alexander Daige

I think they take turns

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's not so much that Dubas' options are limited to what was available this summer on the UFA and trade market that we can see, but there's also a long term planning component that this team is also capable of pursuing.

Whether we're talking about this year specifically or the last few years, there haven't been significant upgrades available.

 

[Racer88]

$8,151,660 is Nail Yakapov's estimated career earnings according to CapFriendly and that appears to be only NHL earnings to date.

With even a semi competent accountant have made it so you wouldn't have to work at HomeDepot to make ends meet.

Unless you spend money like Evander Kane

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ottawa traded a 3rd and retention to get out of that contract. Dubas will trade a 1st to do the same probably next offseason.

No, he won't.

 

[Stephen]

Whether we're talking about this year specifically or the last few years, there haven't been significant upgrades available.

It all comes down to what your expectations are of the GM. Is he a program builder or is his task to make the least harmful UFA choice year to year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It all comes down to what your expectations are of the GM. Is he a program builder or is his task to make the least harmful UFA choice year to year.

A strong internal goalie program is helpful, but a revamped goalie program isn't something you see results from in the short term. The internal goalie options we have now would more-so be a reflection of the Nonis/Lou-era goaltending programs.

 

[Mess]

It all comes down to what your expectations are of the GM. Is he a program builder or is his task to make the least harmful UFA choice year to year.

Mark Hunter was to amateur scouting and drafting success what Dubas has become to the GM position. All hype no substance,

Brendan Shanahan brought Dubas into the NHL, touting him as some 3 D chess-playing proponent out-of-the-box analytics guru and more and more, Dubas is revealing himself as nothing more then a checkers preferring club overseer, with player acquisitions based less on proprietary stats that would give the team an advantage via analytics, but rather simply bargain bin shopping out of desperation and endless cap management struggles out of his own doing.

Goaltending has arguably been the area that’s flummoxed Dubas the most as GM of the Leafs. The Campbell trade remains his best move but still a fail to deliver, but almost everything else has misfired: Bringing back Freddy Andersen for one last season, picking Garret Sparks over Curtis McElhinney, bringing back Michael Hutchinson repeatedly, paying Mrazek that contract and then buying his way out with draft capital, on this endless goalie carousel we find ourselves on.

Goalies brought in Garret Sparks, Michael Hutchinson, Jack Campbell, Kasimir Kaskisuo, David Rittich, Petr Mrazek, Erik Kallgren & Dylan Ferguson on a PTO and now Murray and Samsonov join the list.

Will this time be different?

The Leafs will be putting their season – and the jobs of many within the organization – in Murray’s hands.

 

[rocketman588]

Whether we're talking about this year specifically or the last few years, there haven't been significant upgrades available.

Even by the metric you're trying to sell ( as it is the only one where Murray doesn't look like complete garbage)

There were quite obviously many upgrades available over Matt Murray.