Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[Mess]

Save percentage also doesn't take into account the quality of the shots or defense in front like GSAx does. Murray had a better season than Campbell, even though he didn't have a higher save percentage, because Campbell on average dealt with significantly lower quality shots than Murray.

What about the part that while Jack Campbell was playing in the NHL All-Star game Murray was going through NHL waivers unclaimed and playing in the AHL?

Campbell's success in Toronto was rewarded when, on January 13, 2022, he was selected for the 2022 NHL All-Star Game, his first NHL all star game, along with teammate Auston Matthews.

Murray recalled by Senators from AHL
Goalie, 0-5-0 with Ottawa this season, has been in minors since Nov. 28

Matt Murray was recalled by the Ottawa Senators from Belleville of the American Hockey League on Tuesday.

The goalie was assigned to Belleville on Nov. 28, one day after the Senators placed him on waivers. The 27-year-old is in the second season of a four-year, $25 million contract ($6.25 million average annual value) he signed Oct. 9, 2020, two days after he was acquired in a trade from the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Murray is 0-5-0 with a 3.26 goals-against average and .890 save percentage in six NHL games this season. He played two games for Belleville and was 1-1-0 with a 2.55 GAA and .918 save percentage.
Asked if he felt going to the AHL was a reset, Murray said, "Yeah, I guess so. Honestly, I wasn't looking at it as a reset, looking at it as keep going, try to keep building off positives and try to keep hardening up my game

November 28: Murray has cleared waivers, per Bruce Garrioch of TSN and The Ottawa Sun. The team’s assigned him to the Belleville Senators.

November 27: On Friday, Senators goaltender Matt Murray was a healthy scratch against Anaheim. One day later, he has been placed on waivers for the purpose of assignment to AHL Belleville.

Postmedia’s Bruce Garrioch suggests the Sabres and Coyotes could be teams to keep an eye on with regards to a potential claim. Both teams have a need for a goaltender but with two years still left on his contract and both teams operating as lower budget squads, it’s hard to imagine they’d be willing to take him off waivers with how poor he has performed in Ottawa. A trade with retention after he clears and maybe some games in the minors would be a likelier scenario.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What about the part that while Jack Campbell was playing in the NHL All-Star game Murray was going through NHL waivers unclaimed and playing in the AHL?

What does that have to do with anything I said? Why are you ignoring huge portions of the season?

Campbell was at the all star game because he started off the season well (when the selections were made). You're conveniently leaving out the part where he was one of the worst goalies in the league the rest of the way despite playing behind a top defensive team. Also the fact that the all star game is meaningless.

Murray was on waivers because he had a 6.25m contract, had a rough start to the season, and was going down to reset. You're conveniently leaving out the part where he came back after that and performed well, despite playing behind one of the worst defensive teams. Also the fact that we're not paying him 6.25m.

Overall, Murray had a better season than Campbell last year.

 

[Sypher04]

Overall, Murray had a better season than Campbell last year.

Im not really concerned about our goaltending anywhere near to the degree others are by any means, for many of the reasons you’ve stated, but I also don’t think I’d go as far as this statement.

Both Murray and Campbell had inconsistent seasons with high points and low points coming at different times in the season for each. Murray played behind a much lesser defensive club, but Jack played a lot more.

At worst I’d call it a wash, but realistically I think Campbell gets the edge due to sample. I could easily see Murray outperforming Campbell this year however, if both stays reasonably healthy.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Im not really concerned about our goaltending anywhere near to the degree others are by any means, for many of the reasons you’ve stated, but I also don’t think I’d go as far as this statement.

Both Murray and Campbell had inconsistent seasons with high points and low points coming at different times in the season for each. Murray played behind a much lesser defensive club, but Jack played a lot more.

Yes, both Murray and Campbell had inconsistent seasons.
Yes, Campbell played more games.

But for the season overall, Murray (+3.2 GSAx) performed better in his sample than Campbell (-2.3 GSAx) did in his. That's all that's being said. That doesn't even mean that he will next season, because goaltending results fluctuate quite a bit, but if we're going to put relevance on what happened last year, we should be discussing it accurately.

And we especially shouldn't be doing what was done in the post I replied to above, and cherry pick a snapshot in time that leaves out the massively contrasting trajectories that each were on through the rest of the season.

 

[Mess]

Matt Murray and Petr Mrazek had essentially parallel seasons in 2021-22

- Both goalies due to poor play and injury only appeared in 20 NHL games last year for their teams. Mrazek won 10 games and Murray only 5. That is even below backup goalie expectations !!
- Both goalies were placed on NHL waivers during the season, in hopes someone would claim them and their teams rid of them, because their play at the NHL was unappealing and detrimental to team success.
- Both goalies cleared waivers unclaimed (a surprise to no one base on their poor contracts), that even for FREE that price was too high.
- Both goalies played games in the AHL in 2022, trying to find their games so teams could salvage something from them last season, and the players their own careers as NHLers.
- Both goalies still unwanted at seasons end by their teams became clear contract dumps & not NHL trades for wanted players, one with salary retention and picks, and the other cost the Leafs their 1st round pick to trade back to unload.
- Both goalies now find themselves as reclamation projects by their new teams, with one HUGE difference.

The biggest difference being one team is trying to win the Stanley Cup with their contract dump as their starting goalie, and the other team Chicago believes their contract dump can help secure them last place overall and win the Connor Bedard Cup sweepstakes. I personally like Hawks odds better, because when you pick up a goalie off the scrap heap the odds of failure are much much higher than thinking this is the solution to ultimate success and winning a championship.

You have to love the move from the Hawks perspective because taking on Mrazek has already returned them a 1st round pick in 2020 draft (which means they've won already), and now they're simply hoping that they get to pick even higher in 2023 as this move could payoff even more still, and they don't even need any improvement from last year. However its already cost the Leafs a 1st to dump Mrazek to fit Murray under their salary Cap and now banking on a goalie coming off a serious 4 month concussion could even cost them a playoff spot if we don't see a massive turnaround in health and performance.

Leaf Nation is faced with a team that has never won a playoff series in a Salary Cap World in 18 years since 2004 and now hoping this works out to break the NHL's longest playoff win drought.

Being a Leafs fan is hard !!!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matt Murray and Petr Mrazek had essentially parallel seasons in 2021-22

No, they didn't. Both dealt with injuries, but that's about it. In the sample Mrazek played, he performed horribly. In the sample Murray played, he performed well.

However its already cost the Leafs a 1st to dump Mrazek

No, dumping Mrazek did not cost the Leafs a 1st round pick. This is like saying that we traded Mrazek for a 2nd round pick. Both leave out critically important parts of the trade.

Dumping Mrazek cost 13 rather negligible draft slots.

 

[Gallagbi]

What IF Leafs are dealing their 1st away next year (like Mrazek) to dump the Murray's contract if he struggles and they need the cap space to go find another goalie or as you say re-sign Samsonov if he rebounds.

Why do you continually state the cost was a first without noting the early second rounder in return?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

What about the part that while Jack Campbell was playing in the NHL All-Star game Murray was going through NHL waivers unclaimed and playing in the AHL?

This has to be embarrassing at this point, no?

 

[The Iceman]

QUESTION about the Matt Murray contract.

If Murray went on LTIR
Would he give the Leafs cap relief for their cap hit amount $4.687 million
Or his total salary value of $6.25 million? (Including Ottawa's $1.56 million retention)

 

[Dekes For Days]

QUESTION about the Matt Murray contract.

If Murray went on LTIR
Would he give the Leafs cap relief for their cap hit amount $4.687 million
Or his total salary value of $6.25 million? (Including Ottawa's $1.56 million retention)

You get what he costs your team, so the ~4.7m.

 

[The Iceman]

You get what he costs your team, so the ~4.7m.

And would ottawa get their retention?

Damn Leafs luck we retained on Ironman Kessel

 

[Dekes For Days]

And would ottawa get their retention?

No, the retention hit remains for Ottawa.

 

[Menzinger]

Jack Campbell is an all-star in the same way Brett Lebda is a cup winner. Technically true, but not the whole picture

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Definitely a concern.

Just like the last season, Mrazek and Campbell weren't the picture of health, and Campbell never was a starter before Toronto tried to make him into one.

The previous goalie, was injured for the 'Canes playoffs this year.

A top Vezina candidate in Calgary pooped the bed in the playoffs.
Colorado didn't even retain their starter, and won the Cup with him.

Goaltenders?

Good goaltenders tend to be always good. If MAF stays healthy this season, you might bet on him being a standout in the playoffs. Same goes for Vasilevskiy. I wouldn't count out Markstrom or anyone who's proven they can steal games or win rounds in the playoffs.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

No, they didn't. Both dealt with injuries, but that's about it. In the sample Mrazek played, he performed horribly. In the sample Murray played, he performed well.

No, dumping Mrazek did not cost the Leafs a 1st round pick. This is like saying that we traded Mrazek for a 2nd round pick. Both leave out critically important parts of the trade.

Dumping Mrazek cost 13 rather negligible draft slots.

Famous last words.

Honestly. You can't be serious. Those 13 spots could be something and can't be smeared for the sake of an argument.

 

[Mess]

Jack Campbell is an all-star in the same way Brett Lebda is a cup winner. Technically true, but not the whole picture

Lets hope Matt Murray is representing the Leafs in the All-Star game, because then it would mean he is having a good season, is successfully replacing Campbell as Leafs starter and it was a good trade being among the top 4 goalies in the East come All-Star break. That would be setting up the Leafs near the top of the Eastern Standings.

Jack Campbell played in 49 games for the Leafs posting 31- 9- 6 record with a 2.64 GAA & 0.914 sv% with 5 shutouts. That was the 11th most wins of any goalie on the way to Leafs record setting 115 points season.

PS. Matt Murray and Ilya Samsonov only combined for 28 wins total last year in 64 games.

 

[ACC1224]

Famous last words.

Honestly. You can't be serious. Those 13 spots could be something and can't be smeared for the sake of an argument.

It’s like a 7th rounder was the justification

 

[Stephen]

Overall, Murray had a better season than Campbell last year.

Murray has some upside that both player and team need to work hard to unlock in the upcoming season but that's really going out on a limb there.

I would argue that Campbell at his worst was as bad or worse as any stretch Murray had but Murray never had the elite first half Campbell put together to get himself to the All-Star Game.

 

[Stephen]

Famous last words.

Honestly. You can't be serious. Those 13 spots could be something and can't be smeared for the sake of an argument.

Every draft between 2000 and 2016 had an hidden gem drafted between 25 and 37. So while the average player taken in that range is whatever in aggregate, the trade down does represent the Leafs giving up that opportunity to snag a player that can make a fairly significant impact.

2000 - Justin Williams, Niklas Kronwall
2001 - Derek Roy
2022 - Corey Perry, Loui Eriksson
2004 - Cory Schneider, Mike Green, Dave Bolland
2005 - Matt Niskanen, James Neal, Marc-Eduard Vlasic, Andrew Cogliano
2006 - Nick Foligno
2007 - David Perron
2008 - John Carlson
2009 - Ryan O'Reilly, Kyle Palmieri
2010 - Evgeni Kuznetsov, Brock Nelson, Justin Faulk
2011 - Philip Danault, Rickard Rakell, Boone Jenner, Scott Mayfield
2012 - Brady Skjei, Tanner Pearson
2013 - Shea Theodore, Ryan Hartman
2014 - Adrian Kempe
2015 - Sebastian Aho, Brandon Carlo, Jack Roslovic, Anthony Beauvillier
2016 - Tage Thompson, Jordan Kyrou,

 

[Leaf Fans]

Every draft between 2000 and 2016 had an hidden gem drafted between 25 and 37. So while the average player taken in that range is whatever in aggregate, the trade down does represent the Leafs giving up that opportunity to snag a player that can make a fairly significant impact.

2000 - Justin Williams, Niklas Kronwall
2001 - Derek Roy
2022 - Corey Perry, Loui Eriksson
2004 - Cory Schneider, Mike Green, Dave Bolland
2005 - Matt Niskanen, James Neal, Marc-Eduard Vlasic, Andrew Cogliano
2006 - Nick Foligno
2007 - David Perron
2008 - John Carlson
2009 - Ryan O'Reilly, Kyle Palmieri
2010 - Evgeni Kuznetsov, Brock Nelson, Justin Faulk
2011 - Philip Danault, Rickard Rakell, Boone Jenner, Scott Mayfield
2012 - Brady Skjei, Tanner Pearson
2013 - Shea Theodore, Ryan Hartman
2014 - Adrian Kempe
2015 - Sebastian Aho, Brandon Carlo, Jack Roslovic, Anthony Beauvillier
2016 - Tage Thompson, Jordan Kyrou,

Sure, there might be someone who turns-out better. Like you said there are hidden gems. 38 could also be a Bob Bourne or Roman Josie level player as well.

 

[Mess]

Murray has some upside that both player and team need to work hard to unlock in the upcoming season but that's really going out on a limb there.

I would argue that Campbell at his worst was as bad or worse as any stretch Murray had but Murray never had the elite first half Campbell put together to get himself to the All-Star Game.

People tend to forget...

Campbell's success in Toronto was rewarded when, on January 13, 2022, he was selected for the 2022 NHL All-Star Game, his first NHL all star game, along with teammate Auston Matthews. At the time of his selection to the game, Campbell had a record of 18–5–3 with a .935 save percentage (second in the league for goaltenders) and a 2.02 goals-against average as well as a league leading +18 goals saved above expected.

vs

Murray assigned to AHL by Senators

The 27-year-old goalie, who was placed on waivers Saturday, is in the second season of a four-year, $25 million contract ($6.25 million average annual value) he signed with the Senators on Oct. 9, 2020, two days after he was acquired in a trade with the Pittsburgh Penguins. Murray is 0-5-0 with a 3.26 goals-against average and .890 save percentage in six games this season after going 10-13-1 with a 3.38 GAA and .893 save percentage in 27 games (25 starts) last season.

"We certainly got to play better in front of him as well so we got to take some blame there, but this is about getting his game back," Senators coach D.J. Smith said Saturday.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

At the time of his selection to the game, Campbell had a record of 18–5–3 with a .935 save percentage (second in the league for goaltenders) and a 2.02 goals-against average as well as a league leading +18 goals saved above expected.

Thank you.

When you look at his year end numbers it really highlights just how poorly Campbell played for the rest of the year. What an awful stretch of goaltending.

 

[notbias]

Lets hope Matt Murray is representing the Leafs in the All-Star game, because then it would mean he is having a good season, is successfully replacing Campbell as Leafs starter and it was a good trade being among the top 4 goalies in the East come All-Star break. That would be setting up the Leafs near the top of the Eastern Standings.

Jack Campbell played in 49 games for the Leafs posting 31- 9- 6 record with a 2.64 GAA & 0.914 sv% with 5 shutouts. That was the 11th most wins of any goalie on the way to Leafs record setting 115 points season.

PS. Matt Murray and Ilya Samsonov only combined for 28 wins total last year in 64 games.

Weird talking point... all-star appearances aren't important if you were one of the worst goalies in the league after the appearance.

Why do you mod a team you hate?

 

[OptimusReim]

This team is in a much worse position now than when Dubas took over as GM, we have had no playoff success in his tenure and the negatives greatly exceed the positives during his reign.

I wonder how his fanboys defend every single move and I seriously questions where their allegiance lies, the only explanation is those posters are either his friends, family or paid Dubas shills.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

This team is in a much worse position now than when Dubas took over as GM, we have had no playoff success in his tenure and the negatives greatly exceed the positives during his reign.

I wonder how his fanboys defend every single move and I seriously questions where their allegiance lies, the only explanation is those posters are either his friends, family or paid Dubas shills.

How is the team in a “much worse position”? They just recorded a record, never been done before by a Leaf team 115 points. As for the negatives “greatly” exceeding the positives, how in the hell would they have finished with the fourth best record in the league if that was the case? Give your head a shake man. Your anti-Dubas bias is clouding your judgment.