That was kinda part of my point. I’m not sure why anyone would be pointing to Ottawa’s bargaining position and ignoring that ours was weak as well. Theirs moreso as evidenced by the fact we still gave up nothing for him, but we simply didn’t have Ottawa over a barrel as some suggest the retention/assets should reflect.
Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.
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That was kinda part of my point. I’m not sure why anyone would be pointing to Ottawa’s bargaining position and ignoring that ours was weak as well. Theirs moreso as evidenced by the fact we still gave up nothing for him, but we simply didn’t have Ottawa over a barrel as some suggest the retention/assets should reflect.
- Dec 12, 2017
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Not sure why you keep trying to spin this. Not having confidence in specifically your goalie's ability to make the big save =/= lacking confidence in general.
If by weak shots you mean breakaways and getting robbed on a 2/1 sure yeah weak shots
Pretty obvious you don't actually watch the games
Additionally your favorite in your stat that It have attempted to jam down people's throats ( but only one year of it because Murray is ass the other years)
GSAx
He was the 4th best goalie the entire playoffs. Not to mention his save% was better then any one that Murray put up in his career
So obviously the leafs got great Goaltending in the playoffs by every metric and you're just making shit up
Better save % then Murray has ever put up by both Anderson and Jack we're getting more then adequate goal tending on a regular occurance in the playoffs
usernamezrhardtodo
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I think Jack is going to be lights out at the beginning until some form of injury sidelines him for a short time. After he comes back he will struggle to find his form and then the pressure to live up to his contract will crater him mentally. He will feel he is letting everyone down etc...
I would rather take a chance on Murray with all his warts than do a deja vu with Jack again TBH. At least with Murray you know he CAN win the big games because he has done it before. Will his body hold up? I don't know...but it's not like Jack was a Martin Brodeur back there for us with his ability to play a lot.
Both teams had some good chances, but that shot disparity primarily represents the disparity in non-threatening shots, not some dominating performance.
I've seen every single minute of every single game in the Matthews era.
He was 5th actually. Overall, Campbell put up decent goaltending that playoffs (against a below average offensive-conversion team), but he unfortunately had some horrible moments at some critical times like that game 6 OT. And unfortunately, his opponent was #2 on that list, and had some of his best moments of the playoffs in those same critical moments Campbell struggled with.
usernamezrhardtodo
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People in Edmonton who cried about Mike Smith are going to hate Jack. Smith was the type of goalie who could make an impossible save and 2 min later let in a shot that had no business going in. That is basically Jack. They just tied themselves to him for 5yrs and it's quite honestly going to be fun to watch. They thought they were getting another Hyman....they did not.
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- Dec 12, 2017
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We all know why you don’t answer question. It's your admission, and that’s why we ask them.
Five years is a long time.
There is no question to answer.
A statement was made about how the team likely didn't have much confidence in their goalie's ability to make a big save (especially if they decided to completely abandon defensive structure like was being suggested), after Campbell completely blew the game 6 OT against Montreal that the Leafs were dominating. You have tried to twist this into a negative statement about the team's confidence in general, and then you asked a question about how long this thing that's not a thing and you completely made up has been happening.
Not having confidence in specifically your goalie's ability to make the big save =/= lacking confidence in general. Our confidence is not the issue. Finding a goalie that can make the big save in critical moments has been the issue.
ULF_55
Moderator
Not since Belfour (and he had his warts ... bad angle goals) have I felt goaltending was fine.
Nothing with any pedigree since.
Reimer has to be right near the top, and he wasn't blessed with the talent on the team today.
Nothing with any pedigree since.
Reimer has to be right near the top, and he wasn't blessed with the talent on the team today.
Brown Dog
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- Jun 23, 2007
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I think Jack will perform well in Edmonton and that we'll regret passing on him for Murray, who I fully expect to crash and burn here.
That's my expectation but anything can happen with goalies so we'll see.
But if it does work out that way and it costs the Leafs over the next 2 years, I think Dubas should have to fall on his sword over it.
That's my expectation but anything can happen with goalies so we'll see.
But if it does work out that way and it costs the Leafs over the next 2 years, I think Dubas should have to fall on his sword over it.
Mess
Global Moderator
Inherited Goalies from 105 point team 2017-18 : Frederik Andersen, Curtis McElhinney, Joseph Woll (drafted)
Goalies brought in since:
Garret Sparks
Michael Hutchinson
Jack Campbell
Kasimir Kaskisuo
David Rittich
Petr Mrazek
Erik Kallgren
Dylan Ferguson to a PTO
Current plan: Matt Murray, and Ilya Samsonov
Confindence based on previous decisions made thinking it made the team Cup Competitive : Low
Goalies brought in since:
Garret Sparks
Michael Hutchinson
Jack Campbell
Kasimir Kaskisuo
David Rittich
Petr Mrazek
Erik Kallgren
Dylan Ferguson to a PTO
Current plan: Matt Murray, and Ilya Samsonov
Confindence based on previous decisions made thinking it made the team Cup Competitive : Low
ULF_55
Moderator
Mess
Global Moderator
As a Leafs fans those were the last 3 times there was confidence in net, and that the Leafs goalie wasn't the weakest link, despite being the most important position to playoff success.
Mike Palmateer in the 1970's with Darryl, Lanny, Borje and Turnbull and then Johnny Bower and Terry Sawchuk in the 1960's.
Leafs having the longest NHL Cup drought is likely connected their goalies of choice since Johnny Bower. Its amazing in 50+ years you can name on one hand the Leafs goalies that would give you confidence that they could backstop a team to victory.
They had Bernie Parent but they trade him to Philly so they could win 2 Cups in the 1970s and they traded away the pick that became Roberto Luongo and of course a greenhorn GM trading Rask to keep Pogge, were all big misses.
'Good teams are built from the goalie out, through strong defense .... "
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Once again, spot on, can't win without good goaltending.
Darcy Kuemper 2022 playoffs - .902 sv%
Mess
Global Moderator
Darcy Kuemper was 5th overall in 2021-22 reg season with a .921 sv%, and the 10th best GA/G @ 2.54 & 4th in wins with 37. [2021-22 NHL Player Goaltending Stats | ESPN]
and was 5th overall in Goals saved above expected GSAx at +21.0 [ NHL Goalie Statistics]
He got hurt in the playoffs and missed games and played at less than 100% but he still beat the Conn Smythe reigning and 2 x Cup winning goalie Vasilevskiy in the final.
This is why Washington dumped their goalies including Leafs new goalie Samsonov, in order to go all in on Kuemper because of his underlying #'s.
If Leafs went all in on Kuemper a UFA, there could be a strong case for taking that chance despite less then steller playoff #'s, particularly because NYR, CAR, TB, FLorida, and now Washington all have top 5 goalies based on stats.
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Racer88
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That list says to me that current Leaf management has no idea about goaltending and basically treats it like an afterthought
TheDoldrums
Registered User
Notice how he gives the 21-22 stats in the above table...but when comparing Murray and Campbell, he needs to go back to the 20-21 randomly, because Murray was actually significantly better than Campbell by this metric in the most recent season. Really a masterclass in constantly having the most negative messaging possible regardless of any logical consistency.
Mess
Global Moderator
Which one of these guys is suppose to be the upgrade to Jack Campbell and Leafs new starter?
Matt Murray last years stats.
A goalie that only played in 20 games due to injury winning only 5.. but who was 61st in GAA and 53rd in sv%. is not a logical choice as a upgrade in net.
This is not Leafs backup goalie this is likely Leafs expected starter at cap cost expected to carry the main load. The problem here is Leafs other goalie acquired is even worse statistically..
Ilya Samsonov last year stats
He played in 40 games but he ended up 60th in GAA and 75th in sv% .
Jack Campbell stats ..
Jack won 31 games for the Leafs was 28th in GAA and 26th in sv%.
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TheDoldrums
Registered User
Wait, where did Goals Saved Above Expected go? You literally just made a post yesterday using that metric to rank goalies.
You just claimed NYR, CAR, TB, Florida and Washington have the top 5 goalies. The stat you were using to justify that claim was last years Goals Saved Above Expected.
Matt Murray was +3.2 in GSAx last year. Above average.
Jack Campbell was at -2.3 in GSAx last year. Quite bad.
So to answer your question, Matt Murray is the upgrade on Jack Campbell I guess.
If Leafs went all-in on Kuemper as UFA, we'd be hearing about how stupid it was to get a guy with an eye injury, who was the 2nd worst goalie in the playoffs, who was a negative the year before, who is 32 and signed until he's 37, who has only played more than 31 games in a season twice in his entire career. We'd be hearing about how we could have gotten a younger, cheaper two-time cup winner with less risky term, and got paid in draft picks to do it, but Dubas decided to sabotage the future for the present, and take a risk that Kuemper was going to repeat his career numbers that he put up behind a cup winner.
NYR, Carolina, Tampa, Florida, and Washington have the goalies with the best stats last year, but that doesn't make them the 5 best goalies in the league, or mean that they're going to put up those results next year. You don't seem to get how much goaltending results fluctuate. Literally 3 of those top 5 were in the negatives the year prior.
Why did you use GSAx before and then ignore GSAx in this post? Did it have anything to do with the fact that Murray had the best GSAx of the 3 last year?
hahahahahhahahahaahahahaha
regular season stats are all that matter to you now...
At least your arguments are entertaining.
The Avs won the cup with terrible goaltending, your whole idea of needing goaltending to win took a big blow this year.
Yet every dubas fanboy is trying to pin the loss on Jack
Leaf Fans
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- Sep 29, 2017
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It is used to describe people such as yourself who twist themselves into pretzels to defend Dubas no matter what
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