Proposal: Tor <---> mtl

[hockeyheadlines]

Well, (using your logic) in what world would 3 late 1sts get you 2nd overall pick?


See how ridiculous that sounds?

Corey Perry went out at pick 28 in 2003. There's plenty talent available in late first round picks.

Anyways, Montreal doesn't need of a LW. We need a center and a top 4 D.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Corey Perry went out at pick 28 in 2003. There's plenty talent available in late first round picks.

Anyways, Montreal doesn't need of a LW. We need a center and a top 4 D.

I know. I'm just making a point about how ridiculous it is when people still refer to drafted prospects as "basically" 1st round picks.

Would a team trade 2nd overall for JVR? Of course not.
Would a team trade 26th overall for either Scherbak or Juulsen without seeing the draft board? I feel confident saying no.

Therefore, they aren't "basically" 1st. They're just prospects who could turn out good or just as easily turn out to be Biggs or Tinordi.

 

[JustAHabFan]

Well, (using your logic) in what world would 3 late 1sts get you 2nd overall pick?


See how ridiculous that sounds?

In this world.A vey normal prospect + a 3rd got you the 1st overall.

 

[Brock Radunske]

In this world.A vey normal prospect + a 3rd got you the 1st overall.

You're missing the point....

 

[KILLger]

I know. I'm just making a point about how ridiculous it is when people still refer to drafted prospects as "basically" 1st round picks.

Would a team trade 2nd overall for JVR? Of course not.
Would a team trade 26th overall for either Scherbak or Juulsen without seeing the draft board? I feel confident saying no.

Therefore, they aren't "basically" 1st. They're just prospects who could turn out good or just as easily turn out to be Biggs or Tinordi.

Sherbak and Juulsen aren't far removed from their draft year and are still worthy of their draft ranks. It makes sense to say they are late 1st equivalents since they are developing (and well) but not established (yet). The value hasn't dropped off. The GM acquiring them either likes them or won't trade for them.

JVR is closer to UFA than his draft. I see what you mean, but it really isn't comparable.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Sherbak and Juulsen aren't far removed from their draft year and are still worthy of their draft ranks. It makes sense to say they are late 1st equivalents since they are developing (and well) but not established (yet). The value hasn't dropped off. The GM acquiring them either likes them or won't trade for them.

JVR is closer to UFA than his draft. I see what you mean, but it really isn't comparable.

I know JVR was an extreme example but I still don't think that given the choice for either Scherbak/Juulsen or a blank slate #26 pick, most GM's would take the latter.
That's why you almost never see a prospect traded for a 1st rounder. GM's like the option of grabbing a guy who dropped in the draft or at least picking their own guy.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

There is absolutely no reason for Toronto to do this.

Don't think there's sufficient reason for Montreal to do this either.

Lock it up?

 

[Jared Dunn]

Don't want any of the Hab garbage. Toronto is interested in a championship in June, not October

Championship talk from a team 6 months removed from dead last... Holy

To me this boils down to Juulsen + Scherbak + DD + 1st for JVR which is awful for Montreal

 

[NarcoPolo]

Championship talk from a team 6 months removed from dead last... Holy

To me this boils down to Juulsen + Scherbak + DD + 1st for JVR which is awful for Montreal

Im a leaf fan and can say with no bias, that is terrible for montreal. Lots of ignorant leaf fans in this thread.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Championship talk from a team 6 months removed from dead last... Holy

To me this boils down to Juulsen + Scherbak + DD + 1st for JVR which is awful for Montreal

Regardless of what the offer was, the point is we don't need JVR, no matter how good he is.

 

[Mersss]

OK Let me get this straight.

JVR is nit available unless Leafs get a top pairing young D.

TAYLOR HALL was traded for ADAM LARSSON last summer. Larsson, IMO, is a #3 at the moment with POTENTIAL of becoming a #2.

Taylor Hall was signed to a 6M$ for 3-4 more eyars IIRC...

Taylor Hall is probably one of the 5 best LW in the game

Taylor Hall is younger

Taylor Hall outscored JVR every single year he's been in the NHL

BUT, JVR is worth a young top pairing D?? Guys get your head out of the sand. A futur UFA like him is not going to get you a potential top pairing D. 1st + cap dump? Yes of course. But LOL on getting a young top pairing D

 

[Jared Dunn]

Regardless of what the offer was, the point is we don't need JVR, no matter how good he is.

I'd disagree, I like Lehkonen but I definitely think adding JVR to the top 6 for the right price would be great, I have a feeling he'll be better than any center we get the chance to pick up. I'd throw a 2nd + 4th their way for Bozak if they'd take Desharnais though

 

[Randy Randerson]

OK Let me get this straight.

JVR is nit available unless Leafs get a top pairing young D.

TAYLOR HALL was traded for ADAM LARSSON last summer. Larsson, IMO, is a #3 at the moment with POTENTIAL of becoming a #2.

Taylor Hall was signed to a 6M$ for 3-4 more eyars IIRC...

Taylor Hall is probably one of the 5 best LW in the game

Taylor Hall is younger

Taylor Hall outscored JVR every single year he's been in the NHL

BUT, JVR is worth a young top pairing D?? Guys get your head out of the sand. A futur UFA like him is not going to get you a potential top pairing D. 1st + cap dump? Yes of course. But LOL on getting a young top pairing D

Where has someone said that we would only deal JVR for a top pairing young D? I just scanned the whole thread and didn't see it

Also, don't use the Hall/Larsson trade as a precedent for anything, it was a terrible trade for Edm and universally recognized as so. Not debating that Hall>>JVR, just saying that trade isn't a good benchmark for determining value because it was lopsided and won't start a trend

 

[Mersss]

Where has someone said that we would only deal JVR for a top pairing young D? I just scanned the whole thread and didn't see it

Also, don't use the Hall/Larsson trade as a precedent for anything, it was a terrible trade for Edm and universally recognized as so. Not debating that Hall>>JVR, just saying that trade isn't a good benchmark for determining value because it was lopsided and won't start a trend

But why would a GM trade a top pairing D for a 2nd line Winger and a collection of lesser piece?

The trade was bad for EDM yes, but that just telss you how much top pairing D are valuable in this league. For that exact reason actually

 

[Randy Randerson]

But why would a GM trade a top pairing D for a 2nd line Winger and a collection of lesser piece?

The trade was bad for EDM yes, but that just telss you how much top pairing D are valuable in this league. For that exact reason actually

Who is the top pairing D you're talking about? You didn't answer that and the only trade proposals I see in here are for Juulsen

If the "2nd line winger" is in reference to JVR, he's a 1st line winger with absolutely no debate. He's not a franchise talent, but easily top 30 among left wingers which makes him 1st line by definition.
Top 15 in ppg for LW in the last 5 seasons: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...filter=gamesPlayed,gte,100&sort=pointsPerGame

29.1 goals and 58.8 pts per 82 games as a leaf over 262 games

And again, the Hall/Larsson trade should not be used as a benchmark for future trades

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

Don't want any of the Hab garbage. Toronto is interested in a championship in June, not October

You have been "interested" in a Championship in June since before I was born...and I am 48 years old! You do not need to make ignorant statements about the Habs' players or about winning in June as opposed to October. Your team has been the king of winning the 1st half of the season for years...followed by the inevitable choke the rest of the way. I am glad you feel your team is suddenly amazing, but you are a long way off from winning any kind of Championship. Next time be polite, say "no thanks" and leave the sarcastic remarks alone. It is hard to smash other teams when yours has not won anything since the modern era of hockey started.

While we agree the OP is not something the Leafs should do right now, it is not such a garbage offer that you need to be insulting about it.

 

[member 147413]

No thanks

 

[Randy Randerson]

You have been "interested" in a Championship in June since before I was born...and I am 48 years old! You do not need to make ignorant statements about the Habs' players or about winning in June as opposed to October. Your team has been the king of winning the 1st half of the season for years...followed by the inevitable choke the rest of the way. I am glad you feel your team is suddenly amazing, but you are a long way off from winning any kind of Championship. Next time be polite, say "no thanks" and leave the sarcastic remarks alone. It is hard to smash other teams when yours has not won anything since the modern era of hockey started.

While we agree the OP is not something the Leafs should do right now, it is not such a garbage offer that you need to be insulting about it.

Agreed we should use softer language when talking about other teams assets

I think he was referring to the negative-ish value pieces in the OP that the habs want rid of - Desharnais & Emelin.

I'm actually alright with the idea of taking bad, short term salary back to stock prospects and futures as a leaf fan. I'm alright with the OP, doesn't look like Habs fans like it

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

Agreed we should use softer language when talking about other teams assets I agree. Thanks for not taking exception to my harsh reply to him.

I think he was referring to the negative-ish value pieces in the OP that the habs want rid of - Desharnais & Emelin. DD and Emelin should NOT have negative value. Sigh...I think people just do not understand hockey, sometimes. Emelin is a solid top 4 who had some problems after coming back from a scary injury. He was playing afraid for awhile and became a Montreal whipping boy. Desharnais is actually a good 3rd line center capable of putting up points when insulated from top pairing defenders. Neither have negative value and both are actually playing well this season....although it is still early.

I'm actually alright with the idea of taking bad, short term salary back to stock prospects and futures as a leaf fan. I'm alright with the OP, doesn't look like Habs fans like it

The DD contract ends this year, and Emelin has 1 season left. Neither is paid a brutal amount. DD is comparable to Bozak for 1 million less. Emelin is about 1 million overpaid, but he brings a physical presence we could not afford to lose. The deal was probably decent value, but it does not really address enough of Toronto's needs, while costing Montreal a defenceman they should not be trading away at this point in time.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The DD contract ends this year, and Emelin has 1 season left. Neither is paid a brutal amount. DD is comparable to Bozak for 1 million less. Emelin is about 1 million overpaid, but he brings a physical presence we could not afford to lose. The deal was probably decent value, but it does not really address enough of Toronto's needs, while costing Montreal a defenceman they should not be trading away at this point in time.

I think Desharnais contract is a non-factor come halfway through the year or TDL time, it still eats a lot of cap space right now. Bozak I also think has very little trade value. He really should be a winger, terrible defensively but can contribute offensively

Emelin is overpaid, and goes between a 2nd pairing guy and a 3rd pairing guy in streaks it seems. The length mitigates any real negative value - I will say that last year and previous to that he had negative value because it tied up cap for a while

I agree neither are huge negative values, not sure if they're negative, nil or slightly positive - probably depends on the needs and cap situation of the acquiring team and what MTL wants the cap space for. But I'm pretty sure these two guys are what the poster was referring to when he said "Habs garbage"

I would do the OP from the leafs side, no harm in adding Scherbak+Juulsen+a late 1st+2nd round pick. JVR and Bozak are pretty expendable unless we're making the playoffs which I'm not counting on. I would even remove Emelin and retain on either contract to offset salary

 

[sansabri]

I think Desharnais contract is a non-factor come halfway through the year or TDL time, it still eats a lot of cap space right now. Bozak I also think has very little trade value. He really should be a winger, terrible defensively but can contribute offensively

Emelin is overpaid, and goes between a 2nd pairing guy and a 3rd pairing guy in streaks it seems. The length mitigates any real negative value - I will say that last year and previous to that he had negative value because it tied up cap for a while

I agree neither are huge negative values, not sure if they're negative, nil or slightly positive - probably depends on the needs and cap situation of the acquiring team and what MTL wants the cap space for. But I'm pretty sure these two guys are what the poster was referring to when he said "Habs garbage"

I would do the OP from the leafs side, no harm in adding Scherbak+Juulsen+a late 1st+2nd round pick. JVR and Bozak are pretty expendable unless we're making the playoffs which I'm not counting on. I would even remove Emelin and retain on either contract to offset salary

He was overpaid - but not because of the reasons you pointed out. Emelin suffered a couple of serious injuries that set him back and took a while to recover from. This year he's back to his old form and playing great. He's easily a top 4 Dman who scares the living **** out of any forward trying to cross the blueline. I have no interest in trading him now for some soft players.

There's no trade to be had between the two teams.

 

[Randy Randerson]

He was overpaid - but not because of the reasons you pointed out. Emelin suffered a couple of serious injuries that set him back and took a while to recover from. This year he's back to his old form and playing great. He's easily a top 4 Dman who scares the living **** out of any forward trying to cross the blueline. I have no interest in trading him now for some soft players.

There's no trade to be had between the two teams.

Injuries leading to inconsistent play...the root of the inconsistency doesn't really matter, he was inconsistent

And I wish you all the luck in the world acquiring more grit, seems to be a huge factor in success in today's NHL

 

[Simarino]

Actually, I was referring to the long line of idiot signings Bergevin has done.
As for drama, I didn't notice any before other than the coach using PK as a scapegoat for his own screw ups and the sideways looks from Captain Invisible, which I personally would have smacked off his face

Yeah, like the signings of Price,Pax and Gallagher, who are among the best deals in the league!!?? Such an idiot, moron and clown!!

 

[glenbuis]

Yeah, like the signings of Price,Pax and Gallagher, who are among the best deals in the league!!?? Such an idiot, moron and clown!!

I agree with you about bergevin. Im not sure of why hes such a believer of therien or say hes never made a mistake but I do think hes quality .

 

[Lebowski]

Wouldn't touch that with a 10 feet pole.

Trim down the fat and that's 3 1st rounders and a 2nd round pick for JVR.

No thanks. Kessel fetched far less and is a far superior player.