Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
- Oct 9, 2015
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Those same leaf fans making this argument were saying the precise opposite in regards to Matthews term compared to mcDavid.
Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] Marner re-signs (6 years, $10.893M AAV) Part III
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Bill Berg
Golly!
- Dec 15, 2013
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MattySnipes
Registered User
Point DOB: March 13, 1996
Drafted: 2014, 3rd round
Point ELC signing date: March 28, 2015
Marner DOB: May 5th, 1997 (~13 months younger)
Drafted: 2015, 1st round
Marner ELC signing date: July 28, 2015
Marner came into league in his D+1 season. He was 19. Point came into league in his D+2 season. He was 20.
In his 3 ELC years, Point produced 198 points in 229 regular season games (91 goals) as a centre. He only had 40 points in his first year (68 GP). The only real down year compared to Marner. In Point's sophomore and third year, his point totals resembled Marner.
In Marner's 3 ELC years, he produced 224 points in 241 regular season games (67 goals) as a right-winger. An additional 26 points in 12 more games played while being a year younger. He also reached 60+ points in his first two years on ELC, followed by the big jump in year 3 with JT on his line.
Marner at 6 years (4 RFA + 2 UFA) = 65.358M — $10.893M per year.
Point at 3 years (RFA) = 20.25M ($6.75M per)+ 9M QO for Y4 which sends him to UFA — 29.25 / 4 YEARS = $7.3125M per year.
Chances are he re-ups like the other Bolts long-term before bridge is up. If he hits around 80 points each year on this contract with playoff success he'll cash in for over 11.5M per long term. This contract is to help team contend now and for next 3ish years.
Major differences are term and AAV.
If we assume a Marner UFA year is equal to about ~$15M (crazy amount), then that equals to about $30M for years 5 & 6. If we subtract the $30M from Marner's contract, that leaves him at a 4 year deal (all RFA) at about $35.358M. Works out to $8.84M per year. That's still over 2.09M more than Point, who's a centreman, per year. Wow.
Drafted: 2014, 3rd round
Point ELC signing date: March 28, 2015
Marner DOB: May 5th, 1997 (~13 months younger)
Drafted: 2015, 1st round
Marner ELC signing date: July 28, 2015
Marner came into league in his D+1 season. He was 19. Point came into league in his D+2 season. He was 20.
In his 3 ELC years, Point produced 198 points in 229 regular season games (91 goals) as a centre. He only had 40 points in his first year (68 GP). The only real down year compared to Marner. In Point's sophomore and third year, his point totals resembled Marner.
In Marner's 3 ELC years, he produced 224 points in 241 regular season games (67 goals) as a right-winger. An additional 26 points in 12 more games played while being a year younger. He also reached 60+ points in his first two years on ELC, followed by the big jump in year 3 with JT on his line.
Marner at 6 years (4 RFA + 2 UFA) = 65.358M — $10.893M per year.
Point at 3 years (RFA) = 20.25M ($6.75M per)+ 9M QO for Y4 which sends him to UFA — 29.25 / 4 YEARS = $7.3125M per year.
Chances are he re-ups like the other Bolts long-term before bridge is up. If he hits around 80 points each year on this contract with playoff success he'll cash in for over 11.5M per long term. This contract is to help team contend now and for next 3ish years.
Major differences are term and AAV.
If we assume a Marner UFA year is equal to about ~$15M (crazy amount), then that equals to about $30M for years 5 & 6. If we subtract the $30M from Marner's contract, that leaves him at a 4 year deal (all RFA) at about $35.358M. Works out to $8.84M per year. That's still over 2.09M more than Point, who's a centreman, per year. Wow.
JoeThorntonsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Even if you say that Marner’s UFA years are worth league maximum ($16.3M, an absolutely ridiculous assumption) and add Point’s QO, their contract value on respective 4-year terms is $8.2M for Marner Vs. $7.3M for Point.
Wouldn't they prefer 8 ?
Also, for this upcoming season, they have a bit more than $1.7M of cap space.
Point's third year sees him earning $9M, $2.25M more than his cap hit.
Is it far-fetched to think that a 6-year contract would have a cap hit of $10-11M ?
The cap space isn't there.
The difference will be: Tampa will play with a 23 man roster and have the ability to improve the roster with spare cap space.
Whereas: The leafs will play with a 20 man roster without the ability to improve the roster with no cap space.
But they have Marner, the player that was on the ice for all 5 Buffalo goals in the lineup. Bye Bye playoffs for at least the next 5 years...
Lot of old men in here, Tree.I just saw Waffles suggest that Dubas should be criminally investigated and I've never been more entertained since joining this site! What an overreaction
So if a player is overpaid but somebody tried to overpay by more, that makes the first overpay and good deal?
The Overpaid person here is Matthews. Actually Both Marner and Matthews. Matthews is no where near McDavid Money. Hell Not even Draisaitl. Money Matthews asked for, was Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Kucherov, Stamkos Level. And as of right now, he has not cracked 75 point season. The Issue is Toronto has been dying for a savior, they paid anyone who looked like they have the potential without them providing actual proof of greatness a la Ovi, Crosby, Kane, Malkin, players who have an can carry an entire team on their back. Hell Tavares was doing it when he was with the Islanders.
Marner was reportedly seeking a back loaded 3 year deal around 10m/per. Because of the back load, QO would be like 12M.
Marner wanted to get as much money as he could. As much as I dislike Kyle Dubas, it’s hard to blame him for that.
Prediction: The only leaf player that will improve his point totals from last year will be Matthews. The only other player with a chance is Nylander, only because he can't possibly be worse...
I think you can blame him for not fighting for a better deal. RFAs have no leverage.
So basically these “new types of NHL” deals only happen to the leafs.... if there was two almost direct comparable it would b Marner and Point. Argue term all you want. One got a stupid deal and the other didn’t take a discount, he got a market deal. To think Marner was demanding 9.5-10 with a 12 QO at the end of a three year deal. What these idiots needed was a wake up f****** call but instead they found an idiot who paid them and managed to smile about it to the media the whole way through.
Nicely done again Dubas.
Nicely done again Dubas.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Maybe. The bigger question is whether or not the Leafs will win a playoff series. This decade.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
I just saw Waffles suggest that Dubas should be criminally investigated and I've never been more entertained since joining this site! What an overreaction
An UNPRECEDENTED DRAMATIC OVERREACTION you might say.
JoeThorntonsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Actually 15M on the QO.
I also don’t think it’s hard to blame Dubas at all for how he handled things.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
That's a hilarious way to figure it out. What if he takes the raise Stamkos took?
...Maybe the actual consistent thing in all these deals is, oh, I don't know, every single one of them came in between 11% and 11.9% of the cap.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
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