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Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] Marner re-signs (6 years, $10.893M AAV) Part III

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42 said:
Yes, when the winger is much better than the center. I would take McDavid over Kucherov, for sure, but not Matthews. You know, just because a player plays center, it doesn't automatically make him a better choice for starting a franchise than any winger.
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Yeah, I don't think you'd get much support from actual GM's on that one. That is no slight to Kucherov, but there is a clear top 3 from a franchise cornerstone perspective. I'd even add a Barkov to make it a top 4 as I love his game, but wouldn't go much further than that.
 
garyturner3 said:
Starting a franchise you would take 26 year old winger Kucherov over a big franchise C that just turned 22 a couple days ago? You do realize the age players typically peak these days right? Not to mention we almost certainly haven't seen the best of Matthews yet. If he's already this good at that age, what is he going to look like 2 years from now? Kucherov had exactly 18 career NHL points at this stage of Matthews' career.
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I’m not saying it’s the wrong or right answer, but how come Kucherov is a plain ole 26 year old winger and Matthews is a “big” and “franchise” C? Why only use descriptive words for one player?
 
Dache said:
I’m not saying it’s the wrong or right answer, but how come Kucherov is a plain ole 26 year old winger and Matthews is a “big” and “franchise” C? Why only use descriptive words for one player?
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I emphasised the big franchise C part because IMO franchise C's are the toughest pieces to find in the league. Teams wait a decade to find a franchise C like that and they're almost exclusively drafted in the first few picks. Plus they're much more important to building a cup contending team than a winger. As great as kucherov is, and don't me wrong because he's obviously a better player today than Matthews is, but if you're choosing who to build around between these two players and age plus position are factored in, it's clearly Matthews here.
 
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garyturner3 said:
I emphasised the big franchise C part because IMO franchise C's are the toughest pieces to find in the league. Teams wait a decade to find a franchise C like that and they're almost exclusively drafted in the first few picks. Plus they're much more important to building a cup contending team than a winger. As great as kucherov is, and don't me wrong because he's obviously a better player today than Matthews is, but if you're choosing who to build around between these two players and age plus position are factored in, it's clearly Matthews here.
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None of that explains why you used descriptive words for Matthews and just called Kucherov a winger. I have no issues if you want to take a big franchise C over a dynamic franchise winger, your bias is showing even if you don’t think so
 
Dache said:
None of that explains why you used descriptive words for Matthews and just called Kucherov a winger. I have no issues if you want to take a big franchise C over a dynamic franchise winger, your bias is showing even if you don’t think so
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His bias towards big players? Not that I necessarily agree with it but size has been a significant factor in player selection for decades.
 
Point is, Marner knew all along that Dubas is going to fold.

There's no way that stiffs in suits at Rogers and BCE would let Dubas start the season without him. They want butts in seats and TVs switched on, nothing else matters.
 
lightstorm said:
Point is, Marner knew all along that Dubas is going to fold.

There's no way that stiffs in suits at Rogers and BCE would let Dubas start the season without him. They want butts in seats and TVs switched on, nothing else matters.
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It's a fair point. When you're paying $433m per season, you can't afford to have a key fanbase alienated over $2m in salary.
 
Rants Mulliniks said:
If you think all 3 are in the conversations for Norris, seems like we ARE in for a chuckle.
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I said some have many more questions than others.

You seem to gave taken that comment very literally, it was a facetious comment alluding to the over evaluation all fanbases have of their favourite dman.

And who is the “we” I am providing the chuckle for?
Are you in a tree fort with 3 other people as part of some HFforum club your started?

Can anyone join?(facetious)
 
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lightstorm said:
Point is, Marner knew all along that Dubas is going to fold.

There's no way that stiffs in suits at Rogers and BCE would let Dubas start the season without him. They want butts in seats and TVs switched on, nothing else matters.
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Leafs will always put buts in the seats. When they were among the worst teams in the league for a decade they had the highest prices and the longest season ticket waiting list. Mitch Marner doesn't change that.
 
sd1976 said:
McDavid, Matthews, McKinnon. The 3 M's. I'm pretty sure that if anyone is asked, those are the 3 players they'd pick to start a franchise with. Maybe a guy like Barkov slips in there, but the list is pretty short.
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And this has what to do with who’s currently the top 10 forwards?

Because I’d pick say McAvoy over Burns to start a franchise... doesn’t make him currently the better player
 
The contract in and of itself isn't unreasonable. He is a young player who just scored 94 pts and who is one of the few who has performed in the playoffs. The disappointing thing is that you didn't get any discount at all with either of Matthews or Marner. You'd like to think as a GM that, okay, now we got Tavares on 11M, there's the bar, respected top player and all. But that didn't work out.

Considering all the possibilites for advertisement deals and the rest of that you kind of wonder about the mentality in that room. In Boston and Tampa, San Jose to some extent, they all followed suit. Here - nope.
 
BruinsBtn said:
That makes no sense. Paying Marner isn't a conspiracy, it's a rational business decision that's entirely within the rules.
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Of course it is, but the part about "$433m per season, ( I am asssuming that is the TV money) you can't afford to have a key fanbase alienated over $2m in salary" is a conspiracy theory.
 
Leaf Fans said:
Of course it is, but the part about "$433m per season, ( I am asssuming that is the TV money) you can't afford to have a key fanbase alienated over $2m in salary" is a conspiracy theory.
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No it's not. That's entirely a business decision.
 
BruinsBtn said:
No it's not. That's entirely a business decision.
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Yes, the signing of Marner was a business decision. It was negotiated in good faith. "There's no way that stiffs in suits at Rogers and BCE would let Dubas start the season without him. They want butts in seats and TVs switched on, nothing else matters." This is wild speculation.
 
MrBoJangelz71 said:
I said some have many more questions than others.

You seem to gave taken that comment very literally, it was a facetious comment alluding to the over evaluation all fanbases have of their favourite dman.

And who is the “we” I am providing the chuckle for?
Are you in a tree fort with 3 other people as part of some HFforum club your started?

Can anyone join?(facetious)
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We would be most anyone with a clue. It would also be the many who are fully aware you have no leg to stand on and the motivation behind your comments.
 
lightstorm said:
Point is, Marner knew all along that Dubas is going to fold.

There's no way that stiffs in suits at Rogers and BCE would let Dubas start the season without him. They want butts in seats and TVs switched on, nothing else matters.
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You must be new to the Toronto market? It sells out every night regardless of who is there or how the team does.
 
Dache said:
None of that explains why you used descriptive words for Matthews and just called Kucherov a winger. I have no issues if you want to take a big franchise C over a dynamic franchise winger, your bias is showing even if you don’t think so
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I apologize for not using more descriptive words for Kucherov then I guess? Yes, you're right, I do have a bias towards preferring young franchise centers and I explained why in my post. Which is why if ages are considered, I'd also choose Barkov and Eichel in addition to Matthews, McDavid and Mackinnon over Kucherov if I'm picking one player to start a franchise.
 
lightstorm said:
Point is, Marner knew all along that Dubas is going to fold.

There's no way that stiffs in suits at Rogers and BCE would let Dubas start the season without him. They want butts in seats and TVs switched on, nothing else matters.
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Like they would be afraid nobody would tune in because Marner didn't sign. lmao! As Ballard stated oh so long ago, I could suit up the Marlies and sell the place out.
 
No Marner riles up paying customer base, sponsors and affects ratings. Even a small dip matters at that scale.

Suits will never eve risk that, since their own renumeration is based on metrics tied to the above.
 
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