Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] Marner re-signs (6 years, $10.893M AAV) Part III

[Kelly]

Leafs wanted 7 years and Marner wanted the Matthews 5 so it was always going to be a 6 year deal if both wanted to make it work.

The problem with the Matthews deal is it really a 4 year deal when you consider the likelihood of him not wanted to resign entering his last year. Gotta trade him at that point as you can't let me walk to Phoenix as a UFA. Marner will retire a Leaf.

That'll be ok since McDavid will be coming to TO the next year

 

[Dache]

That'll be ok since McDavid will be coming to TO the next year

Really? What are you trading for him? He signed an 8 year deal (two after Matthews is over) cause he likes it there so it might be tough to trade for him?

 

[Kelly]

Really? What are you trading for him? He signed an 8 year deal (two after Matthews is over) cause he likes it there so it might be tough to trade for him?

Oh, two years.

Still, I can't wait.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Unfortunately the game isn't played on paper and currently they have two NHL experienced d-men (and I'm being generous when I say experienced because Dermott only has 101 games under his belt) under contract to play, on ice mind you.. not paper, in the 2020-21 season.

No it is not. However, the season hasn't started yet so we only have paper.

 

[Leaf Fans]

And its tiresome to keep explaining that next year the Leafs have 12 players under contract for $66.3M leaving $15.2M (assuming the cap remains at $81.5M which knowlegeble people are predicting ... see link below) to sign another 8 players just to meet the minimum roster requirements of 20 players (and good luck with that!).

Maple Leafs approaching uncertain salary cap future one year at a time - Sportsnet.ca

Stop explaining it. Things will change. Just because you can't figure it our has no barring on whether Dubas and co can. They have deftly maneuvered around the cap so far.

 

[Znith]

Unfortunately the game isn't played on paper and currently they have two NHL experienced d-men (and I'm being generous when I say experienced because Dermott only has 101 games under his belt) under contract to play, on ice mind you.. not paper, in the 2020-21 season.

*shrugs* sounds like a 2020 problem
Seriously Muzzin was a mid season add, and Barrie was an offseason add, Ceci was an off season swap...it can be done
Plus, between now and the 2020 off season, who knows what happens with prospect development
Leafs are at the point where they can only be concerned with the next season ahead and staying competitive to make a run

Plus, they will have $15.1m in space next off season without the cap going up at all. Should be closer to 16.5m.

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

Do you think that anybody - even a single person - thought that the Leafs actually couldn't sign the three guys? Nobody thought that. Not one person. I mean, it's not complicated to sign guys, especially when you're as generous as Kyle Dubas was to those guys.

That narrative was always that something would have to give to fit those guys in. Why are you pretending that it wasn't? You realize we can go back and look ... all the threads are archived. Seems pointless to try and re-write history.



Again, you are pretending the "narrative shifted" to they had to lose stuff. That was always the narrative. They gave up a 1st round pick and had to surrender Kadri for a rental on Barrie. This is exactly what people were talking about. A price had to be paid to fit in those contacts and the contracts came in higher than the vast majority of Leaf fans claimed they would, too. I don't know why there are now some of those very same fans doing a victory lap as if Dubas just pulled a rabbit out of a hat here.



I watch a ton of Leaf games and find them hugely entertaining to watch, and I think they will be even more fun to watch with Tyson Barrie in the fold. Additionally, by far my least favourite Leaf, Jake Gardiner, is now gone, making them even more fun to watch.

You're free to be optimistic all you want. My opinion certainly has no effect on yours so I think you are grossly over-estimating the effect my opinion has on any Leaf fan here if you think I'm crushing anyones hopes. Also, you should realize, this is a discussion board, and its going to be full of opinions, so if you're looking for an echo chamber where everyone thinks everything is great and the Leafs have no issues, you might be more comfortable hanging out in the Leafs forum. Once you come into the main forums, you might find a lot more unbiased takes on things that, of course, will ironically be labeled as biased, because of a nefarious plot by fans of every other team to criticize the Maple Leafs and spread "Leaf Hate."

Enjoy the season, they're gonna be a lot of fun to watch.

There are many positives and negatives that can be said about the moves Dubas has made, but your focus is mostly on the negatives for next season. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a fan that wants them to succeed, and know that there is always a possibility that it won't. Some want to look at it from a purely positive one with no clouds on the horizon. Others want to look at it from a purely negative standpoint, and proclaim doom and gloom from here on out. You're right in saying that you have little influence on the opinion of others, but your attempts to paint Dubas as a pure negative is what I disagree with. You seem to think that a discussion board has to be inundated by negative opinions for "balance," but the positives ones hold just as much a valid place in the discussion.

I know extremes and absolutes are the norm in these parts, and I think that is part of the problem.

"Nobody thought that. Not one person." Well, yes, many people did. Perhaps my bias makes the ones that did stand out more, just like your bias may make these stand out less, or interpret it to fit your view.

"It's not complicated to sign guys, especially when you're as generous as Kyle Dubas was to those guys." This is an example of dismissing the positives of the situation only to focus on the negative. Do you think that if the Leafs were icing a team with those 3 guys, plus 20 other guys with no skill, Leaf fans would still be happy? You must think that all Leaf fans are so proud of the signings that they couldn't care less about the rest of the roster. The Leaf fans that are happy they are signed is because the team looks to be improved (or at worst, comparable,) even after signing all those contracts. If you want to argue that the team is worse than last season's, that's fine, but I can see that Dubas has put together a solid looking team without the big losses many predicted. Yes, in theory, you could sign 3~4 guys to max contracts and still ice a team. In theory, the Leafs could have traded Andersen, Rielly, Nylander, Hyman, etc. to make space. There were many unreasonable solutions to the cap situation. I don't know why you would pretend that all unreasonable solutions would have been considered to say "of course they could be signed."

"Doing a victory lap." Sure, some fans are excited about the (admittedly big,) problems Dubas was able to address. It might be for this season only, or it might be part of an ongoing series of moves he will have to make in order to make this roster work. I don't see that as "doing a victory lap," but maybe that's how you perceive excitement/relief. There will be continued challenges for Dubas next year, and probably every year going forth. He has done a good job of cleaning up some problems for this season, and it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that he can do it again. I'm not saying with certainty that he will, but I'm not condemning him for not doing so when he hasn't even started. Some future problems are caused by creating short term solutions, but that's a step you sometimes need to take. Dubas didn't invent this concept, nor is the unique to the Leafs/hockey.

You claim that there are many "unbiased" opinions on the main boards. Do you actually believe that? This is a message boards frequented by fans of various teams, and bias will always be a factor. (I'm not the one who brought up "Leaf Hate" by the way; you are.) I know I am biased, but I can also recognize it in others. I don't pretend that it doesn't exist when I agree with an opinion, then dismiss ones I don't as "biased." I find it hard to believe that you honestly feel that unbiased opinions are so frequent of the main boards when the very thing that draws us here is such an emotional and irrational past time when you think about it. We're watching people we don't personally know play a game which ultimately makes very little difference to our lives. I would argue that the opinions you see on this site are usually subjective, driven by an irrational concept that is sports fanaticism.

Anyways, I agree with your comment about the upcoming season. I do hope it will be a fun one. The way the league is trending toward giving younger, faster, more skilled players a bigger role is one that I think will make games very entertaining.

 

[Rubi]

Stop explaining it. Things will change. Just because you can't figure it our has no barring on whether Dubas and co can. They have deftly maneuvered around the cap so far.

Sure. Ok I'll stop. Tired of

I think Toronto will be a force this season but after that... not so much. Good luck.

 

[Dache]

Oh, two years.

Still, I can't wait.

Imagine if your current players were willing to commit for that long on top of getting McDavid

 

[CatchyTune]

Sure. Ok I'll stop. Tired of

I think Toronto will be a force this season but after that... not so much. Good luck.

Jake Muzzin is the difference between being "a force" or not?

 

[Rubi]

Jake Muzzin is the difference between being "a force" or not?

Sorry... I promised I would stop discussing this. Good luck with this season and the next.

 

[Kelly]

Imagine if your current players were willing to commit for that long on top of getting McDavid

Wouldn't of worked.

5 years seemed to work fine for Malkin, Crosby, Toews and Kane.

 

[DFC]

Stop explaining it. Things will change. Just because you can't figure it our has no barring on whether Dubas and co can. They have deftly maneuvered around the cap so far.

Except for caving during negotiation with stars. That aside, agreed, he's done very well.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Except for caving during negotiation with stars. That aside, agreed, he's done very well.

He hasn't caved in one negotiation yet. So, it is unlikely he will cave in the future.

 

[DFC]

He hasn't caved in one negotiation yet. So, it is unlikely he will cave in the future.

If that's not caving, I'd hate to see what caving looks like.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If that's not caving, I'd hate to see what caving looks like.

Ok avoid looking for caving

 

[Dache]

Wouldn't of worked.

5 years seemed to work fine for Malkin, Crosby, Toews and Kane.

Of course, cups do help. Fingers crossed.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Of course, cups do help. Fingers crossed.

Yes, the Leafs, like every other NHL team has a goal of winning the Cup.

 

[Dache]

Yes, the Leafs, like every other NHL team has a goal of winning the Cup.

Correct, generic obvious statements that aren’t related to the discussion seem like trolling, from any NHL fan base.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Correct, generic obvious statements that aren’t related to the discussion seem like trolling, from any NHL fan base.

Stop doing it then.

 

[Cotton]

Leafs wanted 7 years and Marner wanted the Matthews 5 so it was always going to be a 6 year deal if both wanted to make it work.

The problem with the Matthews deal is it really a 4 year deal when you consider the likelihood of him not wanted to resign entering his last year. Gotta trade him at that point as you can't let me walk to Phoenix as a UFA. Marner will retire a Leaf.

Resign from what... did you mean re-sign? Well, considering he came to the negotiating table asking for 8 years, I think the Leafs don't need to worry about him not wanting to re-sign.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

As a Leafs fan, this thread gives me all the feels!

No longer We Can, and We Will!

Dubas could, and He Did! Lets Go!

But, but, but muh salary cap!

 

[Menzinger]

You traded a first round draft pick for cap space and built a defense that will vanish into free agency next season with no money to rebuild it.

So for the price of a first round draft pick, the problem got pushed forward one year. I don't know why you are being smug about this as if everyone was wrong. Dubas gave up a 1st rounder to buy a little cap space reshuffled his dollars on defense - and let one of his biggest minute munchers walk for free - to move the problem to next summer.

They traded a 1st to have arguably the best Leafs team of the salary cap era and take a run at the cup.

Do you really think trading say one of Nylander or Marner would have been the smarter thing to do than move a late 1st? Come on now...

 

[Dache]

Stop doing it then.

I’ve never done it, not sure why I would start now.

 

[Foxtail]

This year will be the toughest. Next year the cap will jump and we have all our main guys signed. It only will get easier as the seasons go by.

How do you know the cap will jump ?