Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] Marner re-signs (6 years, $10.893M AAV) Part III

[Rubi]

Dubas really screwed up with the Mathews contracts but that said the leafs will be fine , 3 superstar forwards up front with good depth at forward and good D on paper plus a good goalie. They will be a good regular season team next year

Unfortunately the game isn't played on paper and currently they have two NHL experienced d-men (and I'm being generous when I say experienced because Dermott only has 101 games under his belt) under contract to play, on ice mind you.. not paper, in the 2020-21 season.

Edit: I made an error when I said the Leafs have two NHL d-men under contract for the 2020-21 season. They only have one (Rielly) at $5M. Dermott will be a RFA that season.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Unfortunately the game isn't played on paper and currently they have two NHL experienced d-men (and I'm being generous when I say experienced because Dermott only has 101 games under his belt) under contract to play, on ice mind you.. not paper, in the 2020-21 season.

And considering the 2019-2020 season hasn't even begun, the only reasonable thing to do is to panic, right?

 

[Rubi]

This year will be the toughest. Next year the cap will jump and we have all our main guys signed. It only will get easier as the seasons go by.

People in the know say there is a strong possibility that the cap will remain at $81.5M next season.

 

[Legion34]

Making assumptions and not reading again? Marner clearly says he didn't sign anything because he wants to stay a Leaf.

Sooooo then he wanted to be a leaf so bad he turned down better offers?

Ok. Good

 

[Sundinisagod]

People in the know say there is a strong possibility that the cap will remain at $81.5M next season.

Are those the same people in the know who told us the cap was gonna be 83m this year?

 

[Rubi]

And considering the 2019-2020 season hasn't even begun, the only reasonable thing to do is to panic, right?

I'm not panicking as I've got no skin in this game. I'm just stating the facts as they currently are now. The Leafs only have two players (Rielly & Dermott) under contract for the next season. Because of that there is a very high level of uncertainty with regards to the Leafs defense. I doubt it will be as strong next season as it is this season. Changes will have be made and there's not a lot of cap space to make quality changes.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Unfortunately the game isn't played on paper and currently they have two NHL experienced d-men (and I'm being generous when I say experienced because Dermott only has 101 games under his belt) under contract to play, on ice mind you.. not paper, in the 2020-21 season.

This is a broken record. All we heard at the start of last season is that the Leafs were screwed this season and would have to let one of their guys walk as an RFA or trade them. And yet, Kapanen, Johnsson, Nylander, Marner and Matthews are still in Toronto.

Dubas has shown how creative he can be in working around the salary cap. He moved out Kadri, Zaitsev, Marleau and a first for Barrie and Kerfoot, with retention on Barrie.

The Leafs spent a ton on their top guys, yes. But I'd rather slightly overpay on stars than massively overpay on depth guys, which is what the previous GM did in Toronto.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not panicking as I've got no skin in this game. I'm just stating the facts as they currently are now. The Leafs only have two players (Rielly & Dermott) under contract for the next season. Because of that there is a very high level of uncertainty with regards to the Leafs defense. I doubt it will be as strong next season as it is this season. Changes will have be made and there's not a lot of cap space to make quality changes.

Yeah the Leafs also didn't have the cap space to sign Matthews, Nylander and Marner and guess waht happened? And guess what, the players we have under contract this season that aren't under contract for next season provide us with ... wait for it ... cap space. Mind blowing, isn't it.

And BTW, the Leafs have a lot more then two players under contract for next season, I just named three of them, I'm sure you can come up with a few more.

 

[Rubi]

Are those the same people in the know who told us the cap was gonna be 83m this year?

It's these people:

"Friday night’s Marner signing also comes against the backdrop of the collective bargaining discussions between the NHL and NHL Players’ Association, which bear watching. While nothing has yet been agreed upon between those parties, sources with knowledge of the talks believe the salary cap could end up being frozen at its current $81.5-million ceiling for two more years — or raised only minimally — as a way to lower players’ escrow payments."

Maple Leafs approaching uncertain salary cap future one year at a time - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Rubi]

Yeah the Leafs also didn't have the cap space to sign Matthews, Nylander and Marner and guess waht happened? And guess what, the players we have under contract this season that aren't under contract for next season provide us with ... wait for it ... cap space. Mind blowing, isn't it.

And BTW, the Leafs have a lot more then two players under contract for next season, I just named three of them, I'm sure you can come up with a few more.

I was talking about defensemen and if you had been following the conversation you would have realized that.

 

[CupsOverCash]

The Leafs spent a ton on their top guys, yes. But I'd rather slightly overpay on stars than massively overpay on depth guys, which is what the previous GM did in Toronto.

I dont think there is 1 way to do it as the 1 way is the cup way so if they win a cup nobody will say anything then. I think the point I want to say and I think many are saying is that I dont think the answer is to just overpay your stars and I dont think the answer is to just pay for depth. I think there is a sweet spot in the middle where you need your top guys but you definitely need the depth too. Paying the top guys all this money will take from somewhere else but the question is will the replacement piece (likely a low cost draft choice prospect) be able to make up for that. Toronto has drafted better lately so they could very well make it work. I think if you run into an issue where these prospects/draft choices or even cheap depth players arent doing their jobs well enough and then people start to wonder if the top salary is too much. You run into the other problem the other way as you stated. Its a sweet spot in the middle that requires your depth and draft choices to hit. Always easier said than done.

However, with that said, I would also rather have a team that is top heavy because those teams are just that much more fun to watch. At the end of the day, we all want to win a cup but only 1 does that, all the rest I just hope my season was entertaining. Its either those 2 or your season sucking. When you are top heavy you will at least be entertaining. I can say that with previous tampa teams before SY came. We had Vinny and MSL and they were so fun to watch but the rest of the team sucked. You want your teams to be good all around, not just top heavy but the top heavy ones are the most entertaining.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I was talking about defensemen and if you had been following the conversation you would have realized that.

Just having some fun with ya, no worries.

The Leafs have only 2 players not under contract for next season that we would like to resign (assuming we can afford both). How do you think we compare in that regard to other teams around the league? The general consensus is that we will resign at least one of them, and it's likely we'll have a internal replacement for the other so not a whole lot to worry about really.

I would also point out that we have everyone signed for the current season whereas there a number of teams who can't even say that.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I'm not panicking as I've got no skin in this game. I'm just stating the facts as they currently are now. The Leafs only have two players (Rielly & Dermott) under contract for the next season. Because of that there is a very high level of uncertainty with regards to the Leafs defense. I doubt it will be as strong next season as it is this season. Changes will have be made and there's not a lot of cap space to make quality changes.

Yes some people will have to do their jobs. I don’t know what is concerning about that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think you're under-estimating how costly 2-3 ELC defenseman on the same roster can be.

Says the person whose team has 2 ELC defensemen on the roster, and just challenged all-time win records.

 

[Rubi]

Yes some people will have to do their jobs. I don’t know what is concerning about that.

Oh I'm sure they'll do their jobs alright... after all Chiarelli did his job too... just not very well. I have no doubt that Dubas will be able to field a 20 player roster with 40% of those players on close to league minimum contracts. Good luck with that.

 

[FerrisRox]

Yeah the Leafs also didn't have the cap space to sign Matthews, Nylander and Marner and guess waht happened?

You traded a first round draft pick for cap space and built a defense that will vanish into free agency next season with no money to rebuild it.

So for the price of a first round draft pick, the problem got pushed forward one year. I don't know why you are being smug about this as if everyone was wrong. Dubas gave up a 1st rounder to buy a little cap space reshuffled his dollars on defense - and let one of his biggest minute munchers walk for free - to move the problem to next summer.

 

[Kurtz]

I was talking about defensemen and if you had been following the conversation you would have realized that.

This one may have gone over your head a bit.

Posters on this board have spent over a year telling Leaf fans that the team won't be able to sign Matthews/Marner/Nylander after they signed JT. Or if they can do it, they'll have to part with their secondary RFAs - Kapanen and Johnsson.

Now that the team has retained all of those guys, yourself, and I'm sure others soon, will switch the narrative to the Leafs being unable to sign veteran dmen 2 seasons from now, even though the team will have $11.5 mil in cap room created with Muzzin/Barrie/Ceci expiring, and multiple first-round picks ELC dmen ready to step in likely as soon as this season.

It's just a bit tiresome, that's all.

 

[Fogelhund]

I'm not panicking as I've got no skin in this game. I'm just stating the facts as they currently are now. The Leafs only have two players (Rielly & Dermott) under contract for the next season. Because of that there is a very high level of uncertainty with regards to the Leafs defense. I doubt it will be as strong next season as it is this season. Changes will have be made and there's not a lot of cap space to make quality changes.

Dermott isn't under contract for next season, though he is a controlled RFA.

It wouldn't shock me if Liljegren, and Sandin were ready next year... which would make four.

You do understand that the following players have no trade restrictions on their contracts? -> Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Johansson, Kerfoot, Hyman... so it's not as if the Leafs don't have the flexibility to make moves, if desirable and necessary... and $15 million in Cap room, even if the Cap stays where it is now.

The Cap won't be a concern to fielding a competitive team next year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You traded a first round draft pick for cap space and built a defense that will vanish into free agency next season with no money to rebuild it.

So for the price of a first round draft pick, the problem got pushed forward one year. I don't know why you are being smug about this as if everyone was wrong. Dubas gave up a 1st rounder to buy a little cap space reshuffled his dollars on defense - and let one of his biggest minute munchers walk for free - to move the problem to next summer.

If those players "vanish", then that frees up cap space to rebuild it. Come on now, if you're going to talk about cap space, you should at least understand that much.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Says the person whose team has 2 ELC defensemen on the roster, and just challenged all-time win records.

Cernak and Sergachev are not your average ELC defensemen.

 

[Rubi]

Dermott isn't under contract for next season, though he is a controlled RFA.

My mistake. I was going from memory. As to your comment about Dermott being a controlled RFA... its clear now that with Dubas there is no such thing. Dubas has single handedly destroyed the league RFA salary cap structure. Like someone else said... he's like a trust fund kid playing with Daddy's checkbook.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Cernak and Sergachev are not your average ELC defensemen.

Oh, I see. Your ELC defensemen are better than other people's ELC defensemen, so it's okay.

Sandin and Liljegren are not your average ELC defensemen either.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Oh, I see. Your ELC defensemen are better than other people's ELC defensemen, so it's okay.

Sandin and Liljegren are not your average ELC defensemen either.

Well... Yeah.

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

I'm not panicking as I've got no skin in this game.

With how much time and effort you dedicate to trying to convince everyone what a disaster Toronto is, I don't think you can make that claim. Clearly, it bothers you very much if others don't share your negative opinion of the Leafs. It's fine that you feel this way, as you're clearly not alone, but don't pretend like you're one of the fabled "neutral" posters that frequent this site.

 

[Fogelhund]

My mistake. I was going from memory. As to your comment about Dermott being a controlled RFA... its clear now that with Dubas there is no such thing. Dubas has single handedly destroyed the league RFA salary cap structure. Like someone else said... he's like a trust fund kid playing with Daddy's checkbook.

It's fun to be all judgemental in advance. Maybe Dubas screwed up, or maybe not.... if the Leafs make the Cup, I wonder if people will change their tune? Maybe he just kept together a great collection of young players, for a long time. Seven very good forwards under contract for three seasons out, only one who can control if they are moved or not. Time is the proper judge, not a bunch of people on a message board..... let's see how the Leafs do over the next three years...