Confirmed with Link: [TOR/COL] Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen for Tyson Barrie (50% retain), Alex Kerfoot trade (continued)

[The CyNick]

It's impossible to judge this trade until we see what happens with Barrie.

If we win the Cup and he signs or walks it's a great trade. Assuming Barrie and/or Kerfoot are a positive contributor to the Cup win.

If we don't and he walks, it's likely terrible. Although that assumes Kerfoot is worse than Kadri throughout his career.

If Barrie re-signs at a team friendly number, it's a good deal.

 

[qqaz]

It's impossible to judge this trade until we see what happens with Barrie.

If we win the Cup and he signs or walks it's a great trade. Assuming Barrie and/or Kerfoot are a positive contributor to the Cup win.

If we don't and he walks, it's likely terrible. Although that assumes Kerfoot is worse than Kadri throughout his career.

If Barrie re-signs at a team friendly number, it's a good deal.

Disagree. Having Barrie, even just for this one season and cup push, is a win. If he stays or not, if we win the Cup or not, it was still a great move. It's essentially loading up for these playoffs, just a whole lot early.

Imagine if it was Kadri for Kerfoot and a 1st. Kerfoot fills the role that Kadri did, and he's a bit younget and cheaper. Not bad already. Then the 1st gets moved at the deadline for a rental defender. Everyone would be on board with that, even knowing the rental is for one year.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

I can't imagine there's a scenario where we sign both Barrie and Muzzin. It's one or the other and I have a feeling it'll be Muzz since he provides something the D core doesn't quite have.

 

[The CyNick]

Disagree. Having Barrie, even just for this one season and cup push, is a win. If he stays or not, if we win the Cup or not, it was still a great move. It's essentially loading up for these playoffs, just a whole lot early.

Imagine if it was Kadri for Kerfoot and a 1st. Kerfoot fills the role that Kadri did, and he's a bit younget and cheaper. Not bad already. Then the 1st gets moved at the deadline for a rental defender. Everyone would be on board with that, even knowing the rental is for one year.

Remains to be seen what Kerfoot will be. That's obviously a big x factor.

Kadri was a multi time 30 goal scorer on a sweetheart team friendly deal that Lou gifted us.

If Barrie is with us for one season and we're dummied in the first round again, I don't see how you can justify the move. For the trade to sway in the Leafs favour, either Barrie has to be a permanent and productive fixture on our right side for the next 5-6 years. Or he has to be a key cog in a Cup win.

If neither of those things happen, it's just Kadri and Rosen for Kerfoot, which would be a bad trade. Nobody could sensibly argue otherwise.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If Barrie is with us for one season and we're dummied in the first round again, I don't see how you can justify the move. For the trade to sway in the Leafs favour, either Barrie has to be a permanent and productive fixture on our right side for the next 5-6 years. Or he has to be a key cog in a Cup win.

If neither of those things happen, it's just Kadri and Rosen for Kerfoot, which would be a bad trade. Nobody could sensibly argue otherwise.

It's very easy to sensibly argue otherwise.

For one, the deal will always be 1 year of Barrie and 4 years of Kerfoot for 3 years of Kadri, with Rosén as a throw-in. That's what we bought, and that's what we paid. Barrie doesn't turn into no value just because the team didn't win with him. And even if you don't count that first year, we are still talking about 3 years of Kerfoot for 2 years of Kadri. That's still a decent trade, especially given the two suspensions hanging around Kadri's neck.

 

[The CyNick]

It's very easy to sensibly argue otherwise.

For one, the deal will always be 1 year of Barrie and 4 years of Kerfoot for 3 years of Kadri, with Rosén as a throw-in. That's what we bought, and that's what we paid. Barrie doesn't turn into no value just because the team didn't win with him. And even if you don't count that first year, we are still talking about 3 years of Kerfoot for 2 years of Kadri. That's still a decent trade, especially given the two suspensions hanging around Kadri's neck.

I don't recall saying no value. But the key pieces of the deal were Barrie for Kadri. Colorado was dealing from a position of strength on D and didn't really need Barrie. They turned him into a top 2 centre who has 30 goal upside with a sweetheart deal. If you only get one year of Barrie, that's a bad trade.

Kerfoot as I mentioned is an x factor. If he gives you close to Kadri's 30 goals, and can be a shutdown centre like Kadri was, then it's a good deal regardless of what happens with Barrie. However, I don't think that's likely. It's more likely Kerfoot is a serviceable 3rd line centre, never gets 30 goals and can't be relied upon to check the other team's top line. In that scenario, the outcome of Barrie and his value to the team makes or breaks the deal.

 

[Menzinger]

Kadri was a 30 goal scorer in the past. Imo faulty to presume hes going to hit those numbers again. He was a 16 goal guy over his last year in Toronto.

 

[PromisedLand]

Kadri was a 30 goal scorer in the past. Imo faulty to presume hes going to hit those numbers again. He was a 16 goal guy over his last year in Toronto.

clearly nylander's production last year is what nylander is capable of from now on

 

[Menzinger]

clearly nylander's production last year is what nylander is capable of from now on

Almost as if one guys entering his prime and another's on the cusp of leaving it

I'm a big Kadri fan, but let's not pretend he was a perennial 30 goal guy. He hit that number twice in his career (and paced it another time).

 

[The CyNick]

Kadri was a 30 goal scorer in the past. Imo faulty to presume hes going to hit those numbers again. He was a 16 goal guy over his last year in Toronto.

If he only hit 30 once, I would be willing to toss it out. He did it back to back years and then had an off year by all accounts with a reduction in role. Even if you average the last three years, it's still 25+.

In Colorado he should get more ice. It'll take him time to adjust to the altitude and new surroundings, so I would expect a slow start.

 

[The CyNick]

Almost as if one guys entering his prime and another's on the cusp of leaving it

I'm a big Kadri fan, but let's not pretend he was a perennial 30 goal guy. He hit that number twice in his career (and paced it another time).

7 seasons as a full time NHL player. Essentially 3 30+ goal campaigns. 4 closer to 20. I wouldn't say he's a lock for 30, but its not like it was a one off.

 

[AcerComputer]

7 seasons as a full time NHL player. Essentially 3 30+ goal campaigns. 4 closer to 20. I wouldn't say he's a lock for 30, but its not like it was a one off.

Kadri has a 43% chance of putting 30 goals this season.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don't recall saying no value. But the key pieces of the deal were Barrie for Kadri. Colorado was dealing from a position of strength on D and didn't really need Barrie. They turned him into a top 2 centre who has 30 goal upside with a sweetheart deal. If you only get one year of Barrie, that's a bad trade.

Kerfoot as I mentioned is an x factor. If he gives you close to Kadri's 30 goals, and can be a shutdown centre like Kadri was, then it's a good deal regardless of what happens with Barrie. However, I don't think that's likely. It's more likely Kerfoot is a serviceable 3rd line centre, never gets 30 goals and can't be relied upon to check the other team's top line. In that scenario, the outcome of Barrie and his value to the team makes or breaks the deal.

Kadri was a 30 goal man as a first line center, and as a second line center (playing with Marner!) with almost 40% of those goals coming on the PP. As a third line center, he managed 16. Also, Kadri was not that good as a shutdown center - most of the success of that line was because of Komarov, as easily seen after they got separated.

As a third line center with probably very limited PP time, it is disingenuous to require Kerfoot to match Kadri's 30.

 

[saffronleaf]

I haven't missed Kadri too much since we have JT emulating him except for the passion and cap hit.

 

[Boutette]

Kadri has a 43% chance of putting 30 goals this season.

Not with the crap wingers the Avalanche have him playing with.

 

[Legion34]

I can't imagine there's a scenario where we sign both Barrie and Muzzin. It's one or the other and I have a feeling it'll be Muzz since he provides something the D core doesn't quite have.

Actually they both fit in if it is an 84.5 cap like Friedman and Lebrun suggested

 

[Deuce Awesome]

Really like Barrie so far, and I like Kerfoot as well.

Kadri gave it all while he was here but was simply pushed down the depth chart by better forwards. Playing Kadri on the third line is a waste of resources, and brings out more of the goon in him which, while entertaining and somewhat needed, made him cross the line on a number of occasions. If he was in the top 6 this wouldn't be as prevalent.

I hope he gets back to the top 6 in Colorado, and bangs home 30 again. Ill be rooting for him.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Some people are being so disingenuous with their arguments it's borderline trolling. Kadri was never hitting 30 goals as a Leaf again unless AM or JT suffer a debilitating injury. 4.5m is not a sweetheart deal for a 3rd line c.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

4.5m is not a sweetheart deal for a 3rd line c.

It actually is for what he brings. The fact that he could comfortably slide into a top 6 makes him versatile. I don't see anything wrong with it considering what teams are throwing around for players of less calibre.

At the end of the day its not my freakin money.

 

[qqaz]

Kadri was a 30 goal man as a first line center, and as a second line center (playing with Marner!) with almost 40% of those goals coming on the PP. As a third line center, he managed 16. Also, Kadri was not that good as a shutdown center - most of the success of that line was because of Komarov, as easily seen after they got separated.

As a third line center with probably very limited PP time, it is disingenuous to require Kerfoot to match Kadri's 30.

Well said. Even if Kadri hits 30 goals with Colorado, it's unrealistic to think he would have hit 30 again here if he had stayed in the 3rd line job. Kadri was a great Leaf, I liked him a lot. But Kerfoot doesn't have to hit 30 goals to have him alone "break even" on the trade.

Kerfoot is younger and cheaper, and signed for one year longer than Kadri. That alone makes him close to the same value. Kadri, in the 3rd line role, only gave us 16 goals and under 50 points. Kerfoot can match that, and probably won't get suspended in the first round.

I'm not saying that a straight up trade would have been equal value, but their contributions to the team on the ice will be very similar. Anything that happens with Barrie is a bonus. And it's looked like a heck of a bonus, so far!

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's impossible to judge this trade until we see what happens with Barrie.

If we win the Cup and he signs or walks it's a great trade. Assuming Barrie and/or Kerfoot are a positive contributor to the Cup win.

If we don't and he walks, it's likely terrible. Although that assumes Kerfoot is worse than Kadri throughout his career.

If Barrie re-signs at a team friendly number, it's a good deal.

Hilarious how many people think this way. I mean if that's the best you can do, then fine but then don't ever criticize any trades made by the GM if you don't have the balls to make a judgement without the benefit of being able to see into the future.

Dubas has to make decisions with the information he has as of today and it's very possible to "judge this trade" based on the same information.

Excellent trade IMO. Keep up the good work Kyle (except for the Marner contract, that was just terrible).

 

[ULF_55]

Remains to be seen what Kerfoot will be. That's obviously a big x factor.

Kadri was a multi time 30 goal scorer on a sweetheart team friendly deal that Lou gifted us.

If Barrie is with us for one season and we're dummied in the first round again, I don't see how you can justify the move. For the trade to sway in the Leafs favour, either Barrie has to be a permanent and productive fixture on our right side for the next 5-6 years. Or he has to be a key cog in a Cup win.

If neither of those things happen, it's just Kadri and Rosen for Kerfoot, which would be a bad trade. Nobody could sensibly argue otherwise.

But really what does Kadri and the Leafs getting out of the 1st. round have to do with each other?

Kadri is 29 and probably his best years behind him.
Kerfoot is 25 and probably into his best year until age 29.

What did Kadri do as a 23 and 24 year old compared to what Kerfoot did as a 23 and 24 year old.

Kadri
5 years ago 39 points
4 years ago 45 points

Kerfoot
2 years ago 43 points
1 year ago 42 points

It is too soon to call this one ... maybe Rosen turns into a top 4 defender?

 

[BertCorbeau]

You could argue the Leafs traded from a position of strength (centre) to address a position of weakness (RHD) .. and still got his replacement centre without giving much else up. On top of that there’s the argument that he could have sold high on Kadri.

Regardless of term it’s a pretty solid move to begin with

 

[Hclass47]

I can't imagine there's a scenario where we sign both Barrie and Muzzin. It's one or the other and I have a feeling it'll be Muzz since he provides something the D core doesn't quite have.

You can argue the same for Barrie. He offers what the team doesn’t have. Rhd, mobile, puck moving... signing both can happen. It’s a matter of want vs need and Dubas is clearly creative enough to move a young winger to free cap space

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

clearly nylander's production last year is what nylander is capable of from now on

That's not really a fair comparison. Nylander is a young player who hasn't reached the peak of his career. He had a slow start after missing the first half of the season.

Kadri is almost 30 and played 70+ games last season. I know people here love Kadri and this'll get me some heat, but to me he was showing clear signs of regression.

Of course anything could happen but I'm not going to be shocked if Kadri fails to reach 30g/60p over his time in Colorado. I don't think the downgrade from Kadri to Kerfoot is going to be as bad as some folks think. Plus Kerfoot might be able to play an entire playoff round for us.