Confirmed with Link: [TOR/COL] Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen for Tyson Barrie (50% retain), Alex Kerfoot trade (continued)

[ACC1224]

Now that I've seen Barrie and Kerfoot live a few times this seems like a great trade.
Props to Dubas for this one.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Kadri was a multi time 30 goal scorer on a sweetheart team friendly deal that Lou gifted us.

A lot of Kadri fans (like myself) believed Kadri would be a great player and a 50-60 point player, but Kadri signed an average deal at the time. He was coming off 39 and 45 point seasons lol.

Lou didn't gift us the team-friendly deal, Kadri gifted US with the team-friendly deal by not producing points before breaking out

 

[kb]

A lot of Kadri fans (like myself) believed Kadri would be a great player and a 50-60 point player, but Kadri signed an average deal at the time. He was coming off 39 and 45 point seasons lol.

Lou didn't gift us the team-friendly deal, Kadri gifted US with the team-friendly deal by not producing points before breaking out

Thank you for reminding people of the revisionist history that seems to run rampant on here. And let's not forget he was coming off a team imposed suspension as well.

The Leafs got his best years, the Avs will get his rest years.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

A lot of Kadri fans (like myself) believed Kadri would be a great player and a 50-60 point player, but Kadri signed an average deal at the time. He was coming off 39 and 45 point seasons lol.

Lou didn't gift us the team-friendly deal, Kadri gifted US with the team-friendly deal by not producing points before breaking out

Same with Rielly. People just have short (or sometimes convenient) memories.

 

[The CyNick]

Hilarious how many people think this way. I mean if that's the best you can do, then fine but then don't ever criticize any trades made by the GM if you don't have the balls to make a judgement without the benefit of being able to see into the future.

Dubas has to make decisions with the information he has as of today and it's very possible to "judge this trade" based on the same information.

Excellent trade IMO. Keep up the good work Kyle (except for the Marner contract, that was just terrible).

The GM should know if he can keep Barrie long term right now. That should have been part of the calculus for making the trade. One of the skills a GM should have is being able to predict how effective a player will be a year from now, three years from now, etc.

As an example, a lot of people supported the Sparks move by saying well he was AHL goalie of the year. Yet other people said all along Sparks skillset just wasn't at the level you would want from a quality NHL goalie. The great GMs consistently make the right call in terms of where the player projects. This GM did a poor job with that call. He was only able to look at the numbers and missed the red flags that the eye test was telling you.

Likewise he should have a strong position of where he expects Barrie to be as a player over the next five years. That should determine if he offers him a long term extension.

If he thinks he's only good for one full season and he's not part of the long term plans, then it was too steep a price to play IMO. If he's the long term solution on the right side, and he can negotiate a good deal, then the trade was a good one. That said, if Kerfoot can't produce like Kadri did, it's more open to debate if it's had a positive impact.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't recall saying no value. But the key pieces of the deal were Barrie for Kadri. Colorado was dealing from a position of strength on D and didn't really need Barrie. They turned him into a top 2 centre who has 30 goal upside with a sweetheart deal. If you only get one year of Barrie, that's a bad trade.

Kerfoot as I mentioned is an x factor. If he gives you close to Kadri's 30 goals, and can be a shutdown centre like Kadri was, then it's a good deal regardless of what happens with Barrie. However, I don't think that's likely. It's more likely Kerfoot is a serviceable 3rd line centre, never gets 30 goals and can't be relied upon to check the other team's top line. In that scenario, the outcome of Barrie and his value to the team makes or breaks the deal.

Your arguments are all over the place, to be honest. No matter what Kerfoot provides for us, the return is never "only one year of Barrie" and Colorado never turned Barrie on his own into Kadri. Regardless of what happens, Kerfoot is a top 9 player in his prime, that we have for 4 years. In no scenario is that something you can ignore.

You're using very convulated logic when it's quite simple. Barrie is a better player than Kadri, especially for us. The value of one year with him is worth more than one year of Kadri. That leaves you with less than 2 years of value from Kadri for 4 years with Kerfoot. That's a bet I make every day, and Kerfoot doesn't have to become someone who gets us close to 30 goals in a shutdown role for that to be worth it.

 

[kb]

Your arguments are all over the place, to be honest. No matter what Kerfoot provides for us, the return is never "only one year of Barrie" and Colorado never turned Barrie on his own into Kadri. Regardless of what happens, Kerfoot is a top 9 player in his prime, that we have for 4 years. In no scenario is that something you can ignore.

You're using very convulated logic when it's quite simple. Barrie is a better player than Kadri, especially for us. The value of one year with him is worth more than one year of Kadri. That leaves you with less than 2 years of value from Kadri for 4 years with Kerfoot. That's a bet I make every day, and Kerfoot doesn't have to become someone who gets us close to 30 goals in a shutdown role for that to be worth it.

Some people intentionally distort facts to suit a narrative, and use that to further an agenda.

It's never been about the trade. It's all about trying to discredit the person who made the trade.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The GM should know if he can keep Barrie long term right now. That should have been part of the calculus for making the trade. One of the skills a GM should have is being able to predict how effective a player will be a year from now, three years from now, etc.

There's no way the GM can know if Barrie would even want to stay in Toronto long term, never mind the other nonsense.

If you have an opinion on the trade, feel free to share. If you're don't have the balls to make a decision now then anything you say on the subject is just noise.

 

[ACC1224]

There's no way the GM can know if Barrie would even want to stay in Toronto long term, never mind the other nonsense.

If you have an opinion on the trade, feel free to share. If you're don't have the balls to make a decision now then anything you say on the subject is just noise.

Why wouldn't he have an idea?

 

[Menzinger]

Kerfoot has 3 points in 4 games.

Perhaps it's a wee bit premature to be worried about an offensive gap between him and Kadri?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why wouldn't he have an idea?

How would he?

 

[ACC1224]

How would he?

At the very least there would have been a conversation with the agent. Both sides would want to know each others thoughts.

 

[Gary Nylund]

At the very least there would have been a conversation with the agent. Both sides would want to know each others thoughts.

Are you sure that's allowed?

 

[ACC1224]

Are you sure that's allowed?

Maybe I mistook what the discussion was.
You're referring to Tyson Barrie right? Why wouldn't they be able to talk to their own player/agent?

 

[Buds17]

At the very least there would have been a conversation with the agent. Both sides would want to know each others thoughts.

Ideally, there would be some level of mutual interest between Barrie and the Leafs on a new contract. To get a re-signed Barrie contingent on or as part of the trade changes the trade though IMO. Either Kerfoot isn't part of the deal, or something in addition to/other than Kadri and/or Rosen is traded from the Leafs).

 

[Gary Nylund]

Maybe I mistook what the discussion was.
You're referring to Tyson Barrie right? Why wouldn't they be able to talk to their own player/agent?

He wasn't "their own" until after the trade was completed.

 

[I am Canadian]

He's been great for us. Our defense no longer gets hemmed in and as a result we have outshot teams often

 

[ACC1224]

He wasn't "their own" until after the trade was completed.

Got it, sorry i did jump without all the info.

If they wanted to know prior they could speak prior to the trade with the Avs permission.

 

[horner]

Now that I've seen Barrie and Kerfoot live a few times this seems like a great trade.
Props to Dubas for this one.

even if we don't sign Barrie .
still a good deal.
really like kerfoot

 

[Gary Nylund]

Got it, sorry i did jump without all the info.

If they wanted to know prior they could speak prior to the trade with the Avs permission.

Yeah you could say that about many trades but for some reason, it doesn't seem to happen very often. My best guess it that teams generally don't want the players to know they're on the trading block until the deal's done but there may be other factors involved as well. Another thing may be that there's no point unless the team is ready and willing to do the extension right away but they may not be sure, maybe they want to see how the guy plays within the context of their team first. Or maybe they want to see how others develop that they already have - they're not quite sure how badly they want/need the new guy, there are many variables.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah you could say that about many trades but for some reason, it doesn't seem to happen very often. My best guess it that teams generally don't want the players to know they're on the trading block until the deal's done but there may be other factors involved as well. Another thing may be that there's no point unless the team is ready and willing to do the extension right away but they may not be sure, maybe they want to see how the guy plays within the context of their team first. Or maybe they want to see how others develop that they already have - they're not quite sure how badly they want/need the new guy, there are many variables.

For sure.
I think they make the trade even knowing Barrie walks.
Kerfoot seems better suited to the 3rd line role and IMO, it was time for Kadri to move on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

even if we don't sign Barrie .
still a good deal.
really like kerfoot

Agreed. These guys going on about how we lose this deal if Barrie doesn't stay here are out to lunch IMO, 1 year of Barrie + 4 years of Kerfoot vs 3 years of Kadri is great for the Leafs especially when you factor in the cap hits and how they fit into our big picture. Maybe it's good for COL as well dunno, different teams have different needs but for us it's an clear win, really excellent move by Dubas IMO.

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed. These guys going on about how we lose this deal if Barrie doesn't stay here are out to lunch IMO, 1 year of Barrie + 4 years of Kerfoot vs 3 years of Kadri is great for the Leafs especially when you factor in the cap hits and how they fit into our big picture. Maybe it's good for COL as well dunno, different teams have different needs but for us it's an clear win, really excellent move by Dubas IMO.

Yep, unfortunately the cap implication becomes as big a component of the trade as the players, if not bigger.

 

[Eye Test]

Kerfoots looking real solid, avs fans were preaching the opposite but I like the guy so far.

 

[inthe6ix]

As much as I like what I see from Barrie, personally not seeing him as a 8/9M AAV guy if that's what he is after. Yeah he's got nifty dangles every now and then, but with Morgan around, he's kinda wasted on the 2nd PP unit for that price, IMO. 5-on-5 he is ok; more or less what I expected with his play in our end.